About the newer rolling stock (mbug, oscar and waratah

 
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Diesel units do not have target plates or a particular operational sector, but can in practice be considered to operate on a unique sector as they service the non-electrified portions of the system.
"wikipedia"
"sydnytrains"


Yes, because Wikipedia is the authority for any and all knowledge on the internet. They've never been wrong about anything before, ever.  Rolling Eyes

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  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers


So, the historic trains used plates with the initial of where their depot was and these initials stuck since then, even though they have no relation at all? Good theory.Very Happy
"boxythingy"


Well they do. M stood for Mortdale which serviced runs in the Illawarra, H = Hornsby which serviced the North and west, B = Punchbowl and F = Flemington which both depots serviced the same sector.

Just another question, how did the colour of the target affect the train? Because I read this little passage long ago that said that the colour of the target was to mark out how many cars or something. I think red stood for 6 cars and black stood for 2 cars, but I stand to be corrected heavily on this.
  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers
Diesel units do not have target plates or a particular operational sector, but can in practice be considered to operate on a unique sector as they service the non-electrified portions of the system.
"wikipedia"
"sydnytrains"


Yes, because Wikipedia is the authority for any and all knowledge on the internet. They've never been wrong about anything before, ever.  Rolling Eyes
"Raichase"


Well, I don't usually rely on it heavily. But it is a good source here and there.
  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers

Well, here's a small history of the target plates

....

Hope this helps.  Smile
"sydnytrains"


Wow, so much info. Thanks Very Happy
"boxythingy"


yeah i'm glad I started this post because their is a lot of info coming out and no arguing about this and that.
"jedimasterc"


I'm glad you liked it.  Smile
  newington Chief Commissioner

Location: Here, very occasionally.
B = Punchbowl and F = Flemington which both depots serviced the same sector.
"sydnytrains"


hence why during rationalisation, Punchbowl was considered superfluous and thus eliminated.
  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers
B = Punchbowl and F = Flemington which both depots serviced the same sector.
"sydnytrains"


hence why during rationalisation, Punchbowl was considered superfluous and thus eliminated.
"newington"


Absolutely correct. For those who don't know, all Tangara's were transferred to MMC in 1994 after the closure and remaining stock were transferred to FMC, where they now reside.
  parraeel Chief Train Controller



So, the historic trains used plates with the initial of where their depot was and these initials stuck since then, even though they have no relation at all? Good theory.Very Happy
"boxythingy"


Just another question, how did the colour of the target affect the train? Because I read this little passage long ago that said that the colour of the target was to mark out how many cars or something. I think red stood for 6 cars and black stood for 2 cars, but I stand to be corrected heavily on this.
"sydnytrains"


Not sure about historically, but today:

Red target plates are Mortdale MC (Sector 1)
Blue target plates are Flemington MC (Sector 2/InterCity)
Black target plates are Hornsby MC (Sector 3)
Green target plates are Eveleigh (Millenniums/Oscars)
  boxythingy Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
I know that Waratah trains are stabled at the Auburn Maintenance Centre, but do not have target plates but rather have their set number stickered? on. Is there a reason why they aren't plated?
  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers
No. They have a white target plate with the set number.
  newington Chief Commissioner

Location: Here, very occasionally.
No. They have a white target plate with the set number.
"sydnytrains"


No, they are black stickers
  rrroLLa Chief Train Controller

No. They have a white target plate with the set number.
"sydnytrains"


No, they are black stickers
"newington"


Are they even going to worry about coloured plates, they're going to be in every maintanence center arn't they?
  UncleMurphy Train Controller

Location: Canley Vale
From photos I've seen of M1 (Millenium) and A1 (Waratah) testing, the white background target plate is like a "prototype" train Target plate.

I'll post some photos when I can find them. Laughing
  matt_c17 Chief Train Controller

Location: Around here somewhere...
And in 2006, the "H" target had re appeared after over 10 years of absence. It was used on the now running OSCAR units. I don't know at this moment what "H" stands for, but it's used.
"sydnytrains"


Perhaps because alphabetically, 'H' follows 'G', as does 'V' follow 'U'.
  boxythingy Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
From photos I've seen of M1 (Millenium) and A1 (Waratah) testing, the white background target plate is like a "prototype" train Target plate.

I'll post some photos when I can find them. Laughing
"UncleMurphy"


I only found one, and a small one on an old smh article:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/15/1018333485325.html
  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers
No. They have a white target plate with the set number.
"sydnytrains"


No, they are black stickers
"newington"


Yeah I know. They have a white plate with black numbers.
  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers
No. They have a white target plate with the set number.
"sydnytrains"


No, they are black stickers
"newington"


Are they even going to worry about coloured plates, they're going to be in every maintanence center arn't they?
"rrroLLa"


They have there own centre at Auburn. That's why most of the A sets that have been delivered are there now. They're not migrating to every MC, like the rest of the fleet.
  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers
And in 2006, the "H" target had re appeared after over 10 years of absence. It was used on the now running OSCAR units. I don't know at this moment what "H" stands for, but it's used.
"sydnytrains"


Perhaps because alphabetically, 'H' follows 'G', as does 'V' follow 'U'.
"matt_c17"


Probably. Thanks for the answer.  Smile
  PDCL Chief Train Controller

No. They have a white target plate with the set number.
"sydnytrains"


No, they are black stickers
"newington"


Yeah I know. They have a white plate with black numbers.
"sydnytrains"


There is no plate on the A-sets.  There's a flat spot where you might put a plate, but instead they have just stuck the number straight onto the train's chassis, which is the standard gunmetal colour.  No white plate, or any other colour for that matter, on the in-service sets, might be a different story for the sets in test, although I recall seeing A4 before it was accepted for revenue service being similarly plate-less.

Edit: spelling
  balikoy Chief Commissioner

I also seem to recall that W might have been used for something at some stage,


I was thinking I might be getting Alzheimers,  but apparently not

http://www.sets.org.au/library/index.php?id=sputnik
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I don't see why the Waratahs NEED target plates - the set numbers match the car numbers, and they are fixed 8-car sets. For those saying that they have target plates, I'd like to see where they are, because I've certainly not found them yet  Rolling Eyes

http://www.flickr.com/photos/raichase/6293648747/

I can see the set number, but as the bit of the train that it's been placed on is identical to the other side (only without the set number), I would hardly consider it a target plate...
  PDCL Chief Train Controller

Thanks for the photo Raichase.

As for why any train needs a target plate, if anything it makes more sense on a semi-permanently coupled sets like the Waratahs, Millenniums and Tangaras, where the set number is essentially always going to refer to the same set of 4 or 8 cars.  I would like to know why it is necessary to have a set number in addition to car numbers though, AIUI the set number is not what shows up on a signallers computer screen, and I hope to hell that maintenance is recorded and undertaken by car number and not set number.
  jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
ok getting back to the original part of my thread can anybody answer the question I posed in my last post on page 2
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Thanks for the photo Raichase.

As for why any train needs a target plate, if anything it makes more sense on a semi-permanently coupled sets like the Waratahs, Millenniums and Tangaras, where the set number is essentially always going to refer to the same set of 4 or 8 cars.
"PDCL"


Actually, I beg to differ - it makes less sense on anything that's permanently coupled into sets. May as well permanently put the set number on the train in some form or another, because it's not going to change. In the case of the Tangaras, cars can be removed and added, there are quite a few mismatched sets about. In the case of the OSCars and the Waratahs, set numbers could (in theory) be permanently applied. They all come from the same depot, and are marshalled in fixed sets, why bother with a removable target plate?

Target plates are more important on sets that can easily be remarshalled, with interchangeable cars, like the S/K/C sets. Obviously K/C sets work in pairs, but they are not fixed 4-car sets. As they can be at different depots, they need removeable target plates. Just because the K's have settled at HMC and the C's at FMC, doesn't mean they were always that way.

I would like to know why it is necessary to have a set number in addition to car numbers though, AIUI the set number is not what shows up on a signallers computer screen, and I hope to hell that maintenance is recorded and undertaken by car number and not set number.


Identification purposes. If a driver identifies their train as being in 2 road, Set S1/S8, they can easily check the train is the correct one. Ditto that a signaller would prefer to hear that the defective train is T28, and not a bunch of car numbers. It's also easier for train technicians, transit officers, police, etc to identify a train coming into a platform by set number than by car number. Troublemaker on M4, 3rd car? No worries.
  stuart Locomotive Fireman

Location: Adelaide SA
From my understanding ...

V = Intercity train with Vacuum Toilets (1977-2011)
C = Chopper Controlled Train

But let's remember, while we're talking about target's, M sets were 4 car Red rattlers consisting of 2 single deck motor cars and 2 double deck trailers, H sets were 4 car single deck sets and T sets were 2 car Double Deck sets (2 car L sets really).
"sydnytrains"



Double Deck Interurbans ran with the U designation up until the mid 80's.
That included what was the newer stock at the time.
The 1st electric train to Newcastle was Sets U35 and U22 with cars DIM8070,DIT9115,DIT9116,DIM8069,DIM8055,DIT9108,DIT9105 and DIM8046 on June 3rd 194.
Even some of the later DIM motor cars with the Candy fronts were part of U sets as late as 1985 from memory.

Stuart
  sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers
No. They have a white target plate with the set number.
"sydnytrains"


No, they are black stickers
"newington"


Yeah I know. They have a white plate with black numbers.
"sydnytrains"


There is no plate on the A-sets.  There's a flat spot where you might put a plate, but instead they have just stuck the number straight onto the train's chassis, which is the standard gunmetal colour.  No white plate, or any other colour for that matter, on the in-service sets, might be a different story for the sets in test, although I recall seeing A4 before it was accepted for revenue service being similarly plate-less.

Edit: spelling
"PDCL"


Ops. Sorry. My mistake. I must have been thinking things.  EmbarassedEmbarassed

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