NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

 
  abesty1 Chief Commissioner

Location: The CityRail Network

http://rouse-hill-times.whereilive.com.au/news/story/showground-station-named-in-the-north-west-rail-link/
Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian has said the future of the Castle Hill Showground and facilities are secure following consultation with the local community about the adjacent North West Rail Link station precinct.
She said the location of the station and the construction site have been moved to reduce impacts on the Showground.

The railway station will also be renamed Showground Station, in line with a suggestion by the Castle Hill and Hills District Agricultural Society.

The update follows The Hills Shire Council's decision earlier this year to move out of the council building.

The changes will be outlined when the second Environmental Impact Statement is released in coming weeks and include:

* Moving the railway station to the south-east, further away from the Showground ring and community facilities to reduce construction impacts;

* Acquiring and demolishing the Hills Centre to make way for the new station and possibly using the Hills Shire Council building as a project office during construction;

* Changing the location of the heavy vehicle access road following feedback;

* Retaining four out of five community facilities previously proposed to be demolished. The trotting stables and horse amenities will be relocated on-site;

* Improved bus interchange and commuter car park, located closer to the station.

"We have made a number of significant changes after listening to the community that will deliver the best outcome during construction and when the North West Rail Link is operational," Ms Berejiklian said.

"I encourage everyone to have a look at these changes as part of the second Environmental Impact Statement and have a say.

"This is a crucial project for north-west Sydney and we are getting on with the job of building it."

The project team and The Hills Shire Council will work with regular community users of the Hills Centre.

The Hills Centre would have been impacted during construction of the North West Rail Link under the previous plan for the precinct and the council had not renewed the lease beyond May next year.


The Showground construction site will be set up at the end of 2013 while early site preparation work starts in May next year.
"Rouse Hill Times"


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  abesty1 Chief Commissioner
  abesty1 Chief Commissioner

Location: The CityRail Network

Bus services to go when rail link opens


EXPRESS buses from the Hills District to the CBD will not run all the way to the city once the north-west rail link is opened.

A second environmental impact statement for the $9 billion train line, expected to open in 2019, was released today by Transport for NSW.

The statement offers details into what the eight new railway stations on the line will look like; how trains will operate on the line, which is planned as a public-private partnership; and how buses will change once the line opens.

It says that many buses that currently take commuters from the north-west suburbs, along the M2, to the north shore or city will be redirected when the train line opens.

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"It is anticipated that the majority of the M2 city express bus services which currently perform the trunk line haul service to North Sydney and the Sydney CBD could be withdrawn from those suburbs with good access to the NWRL once the NWRL is operational," the statement says.

"These buses would then be used more efficiently to provide enhanced feeder services into NWRL stations and increased frequency to key centres such as Castle Hill and Macquarie Park," it says.

Bus services from the north-west to Parramatta and Blacktown along the T-Way would be retained.

Releasing the statement today, the Transport Minister, Gladys Berejiklian, said the rail link was expected to take 12,000 cars off the road in an average two-hour morning peak. This would equate to 14 million fewer car trips a year soon after opening, and 20 million car trips a year by 2036.

"We are building a piece of infrastructure that will completely change the way of life for people across Sydney, benefiting generations to come - so we need to get it right from the start and the community is a critical part of that," Ms Berejiklian said.

Today's statement also reveals that Transport for NSW expects trains to travel as fast as 100km/h on the line, to run from its western end at Rouse Hill to its eastern end at Chatswood.

Trains on the existing Epping to Chatswood line, which will become part of the new north-west rail link public-private partnership, currently have a speed limit of 80km/h, meaning that will have to be lifted.

Transport for NSW is predicting that it will take commuters 37 minutes to get from Rouse Hill to Chatswood on the line, where they will have to interchange for the city. It would take another 20 minutes to get to the city.

Fairfax has previously revealed internal Transport for NSW documents showing major concerns over whether Chatswood station will be able to cope with the thousands of people wanting to interchange. Today's statement does not address those concerns.

Transport for NSW will build about 4000 car parking places at new stations on the north-west rail link.

The department's analysis shows there will be about twice the demand for "park and ride" facilities on the north-west rail link than at other stations on the CityRail network.

The 23-kilometre north-west rail link will be Sydney's first privately operated train line. It is being built for single-deck trains.

Tunnels for the line, to run for 14 kilometres between Epping and Bella Vista, will be built with a diameter of six metres, which is not large enough to run double-decked trains through.


 




Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/bus-services-to-go-when-rail-link-opens-20121030-28h1f.html#ixzz2Al4QwaQq

  bambul Station Master

Location: Sydney
The second EIS for the NWRL is out:

http://northwestrail.com.au/document/index/1

Page 77 of the summary version talks about ATP (Automatic Train Protection) and ATR (Automatic Train Regulation). I've never heard of ATR before. Is it the new name for ATO (which wasn't mentioned when I read it), or is it something completely new?
  abesty1 Chief Commissioner

Location: The CityRail Network

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/new-stations-new-trains-and-14-million-fewer-car-trips
Station design revealed

New stations, new trains and 14 million fewer car trips

North West Sydney today got its first look at the city’s eight new railway stations and other major benefits of the North West Rail Link, with the project’s second Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) going on exhibition.

Minister for Transport Gladys Berejiklian said the community will have until December 3 to have their say on the second EIS.

“This is a great opportunity to participate in the community discussion around the North West Rail Link and to have your say,” she said.

“We are building a piece of infrastructure that will completely change the way of life for people across Sydney, benefiting generations to come – so we need to get it right from the start and the community is a critical part of that.”

The second EIS highlights key benefits of the project, including:


  • The North West Rail Link is forecast to reduce car trips by 14 million a year soon after opening – this is about 12,000 fewer car trips in an average two-hour weekday morning peak. The reduction in car trips is forecast to increase to 20 million a year by 2036;

  • The trip from Cudgegong Road, Rouse Hill to Macquarie Park will take about 28 minutes, to Chatswood 37 minutes and to Wynyard (including an interchange) 57 minutes.

The second EIS focuses on:


  • Design and operation of the eight new railway stations at Cherrybrook, Castle Hill, Showground, Norwest, Bella Vista, Kellyville, Rouse Hill and Cudgegong Rd;

  • Commuter parking for 4,000 cars;

  • How the rapid transit rail link operates, including the new generation single deck trains announced as part of Sydney’s Rail Future;

  • Transport interchanges;

  • Areas around the railway stations; and

  • Rail infrastructure like railway tracks and signalling systems.

The first EIS was approved in late September, giving the planning green light to building the 15km of tunnels, station excavations and starting the work on the 4km skytrain section.

“By splitting the planning approvals process in two, we can now get on and build the tunnels – which will take the longest amount of time – while spending a little extra time through the second EIS looking at the design of the stations and the areas around them,” Ms Berejiklian said.

“We will consult with the community to ensure we deliver our customers the best possible service to meet all their needs – whether they are travelling to work, university, going shopping or even to the annual Castle Hill Show at the new Showground Station.

“I encourage the community to have their say because we’ve already seen that good feedback can lead to positive improvements to the project as we move forward – we are serious about listening to the comments.”

Following community feedback over the past 18 months, key improvements to the North West Rail Link include:


  • Going from six to eight railway stations;

  • Increasing commuter car parking by 1,000 spaces – to 4,000;

  • Securing the future of the Castle Hill Showground;

  • Easing disruption to Norwest Boulevard during construction by slightly moving Norwest station; and

  • Reducing the size of the Cheltenham construction site by more than 2,000 square metres.


  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas
The second EIS for the NWRL is out:

http://northwestrail.com.au/document/index/1

Page 77 of the summary version talks about ATP (Automatic Train Protection) and ATR (Automatic Train Regulation). I've never heard of ATR before. Is it the new name for ATO (which wasn't mentioned when I read it), or is it something completely new?
"bambul"


1) ATR is like ATO with driver in cab, operating doors and monitoring passenger activities via CCTV - as distinct from ATO with a "Train Captain" roving through the train, and operating the doors at stations (a la DLR). But ATR means that the driver drives the train, and the ATR monitors that the train is driven within a safe envelope. It uses the same technology as ATO, but keeps the driver actively involved, maintaining skill and ensuring that when manual control is needed, the drivers remain well practiced and proficient. It would be an ideal model, once proven on an isolated line, for progressive implementation across the network. The changeover from ATR to Vigilence/DMP at implementation boundaries would be pretty seemless. ATR could provide in-cab signalling, speed control signalling, and moving block safeworking where it's implemented, with fixed block lineside signals elsewhere.

2) A 6m tunnel will accept DD trains built to a tighter profile, but NOT today's generation of DD cars. They ARE buildable, with the will - and would cost-in OK with reasonable lenth of production runs over which to defray development costs. The tighter profile would suit Melbourne, and with a further reduction in width: NSW InterCity and Perth suburbans - Adelaide, too, when they get a Round TUIT.

HTH

DW from Don, but temporarily in Perth.



  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
ATR = Coded Manual?
  abesty1 Chief Commissioner
  boxythingy Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Interactive Site: http://northwestrail.interactivetour.com.au/
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Does anyone else think the forecast reduction of 12000 car trips in the 2hr AM peak shortly after opening is completely unrealistic?  That's similar to the entire current bus patronage.
  bambul Station Master

Location: Sydney
Does anyone else think the forecast reduction of 12000 car trips in the 2hr AM peak shortly after opening is completely unrealistic? That's similar to the entire current bus patronage.
"simonl"


I'm guessing it's based on the things like:

1. Most CBD buses will be converted into feeder buses.
2. About 2/3rds of the trips will be by people who had previously used another line, freeing up those other lines to increase patronage (per a leaked Treasury email from last year).
3. Some people who previously drove to Norwest, Macquarie, or Chatswood and did not take the bus may start taking the train (particularly Norwest, which currently has no rail links).
4. Based on population growth, there will be about 10% more trips made per day in 2019 than there are today.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Points 1 & 2 don't count toward the forecast reduction in car trips.

I think it would require a lot of people using the train to work destinations Chatswood-NW.
  bambul Station Master

Location: Sydney
*facepalm*

You're right. I should avoid posting while tired. Read the words car and bus in your post and they got merged into one über word.

Let me try using numbers instead. These are mostly taken from the "Employment and Commuting in Sydney’s Centres, 1996 - 2006" document (I don't have a link handy, but some googling should give you the link).

The 2 major centers on the NWRL are Norwest (10,305 jobs in 2006), a business park, and Castle Hill (5,644 jobs in 2006), a retail centre. Other similar centers in Sydney on rail lines, along with their rail mode share for work trips, are:

BUSINESS PARKS
Sydney Olympic Park - 10.1%
Rhodes - 16.9%
St Leonards/Crows Nest - 22.5%
North Sydney - 43.3%

(Note: the Epping to Macquarie Rail Line had yet to open in 2006.)

RETAIL CENTRES
Bankstown - 7.8%
Blacktown - 10.0%
Hurstville - 14.3%
Hornsby - 16.8%
Burwood - 22.4%
Bondi Junction - 27.1%

North Sydney, St Leonards/Crows Nest, and Bondi Junction are not really comparable to Northwest Sydney. Excluding these gives an average rail mode share of 13.5% for business parks and 10.3% for retail centres.

So the number of workers using rail for those 2 centres might be about:

(10,305 x 13.5%) + (5,644 x 10.3%) = 1,972

Double that for the return trip and you get about 4,000, which is one third of the figure stated.

This doesn't include trips to other centres (particularly Macquarie and Chatswood), non-work trips, nor the population increase in the next 7 years. However it also assumes no mode shift from buses to cars, or that the car dependent Northwest is not as likely to take public transport as other parts of Sydney, let alone adjust in less than 2 years.

Is this enough to get up to the 12,000 cars off the road figure? I think it's well within the ball park, based on some very back of the envelope calculations.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
BTW, you can't double it because the car trip reduction forecast is for the 2hr AM peak.  So it's actually 1/6 of the forecast accounted for.
  Rails Chief Commissioner


All the stations look great to me. I think despite the moaning from many quarters, when built this line will be popular and people will want to use it. When the second crossing is built it will be a fantastic piece of transport infrastructure.

Despite the high number planned already, it appears that Kellyville will have so much more room for additional parking, should be good long term. The bus interchanges look great too, I really hope this sees Sydney doing the bus to HR transfer properly. I dont know why people are surprised that the bus services from the NW to the CBD are being re-routed to meet the rail line, it was always the plan as I argued on a number of forums for years. There is going to be a lot more room in North Sydney and along the bridge to the CBD for lower North Shore and Northern Beaches buses when this line opens which is one of the major benefits of the project in my mind. The long haul passengers from the NW should be on rail, the short haul passengers from the inner North can make better use of those bus slots.

 

 

  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
Oh great force everyone to get on a overcrowded train, and then onto a another overcrowded train at Chatswood.
You can do all the figures you like, but you can't do a figure for a passenger tolerance of a being on a overcrowded train for 40 mins to Chatswood then another 20 mins to the city.
  stupid_girl Assistant Commissioner

Oh great force everyone to get on a overcrowded train, and then onto a another overcrowded train at Chatswood. You can do all the figures you like, but you can't do a figure for a passenger tolerance of a being on a overcrowded train for 40 mins to Chatswood then another 20 mins to the city.
"Blackadder"

There is no way that the NWRL train will get over-crowded.
Upon completion, Epping-Chatswood section  may be at capacity but the Epping-Rouse Hill section will be hardly full.
  stupid_girl Assistant Commissioner

BTW, you can't double it because the car trip reduction forecast is for the 2hr AM peak. So it's actually 1/6 of the forecast accounted for.
"simonl"

Long time ago, I already pointed out how ridiculous the patronage projection was.

Accounting for the population density and the fact that a large proportion of M2 bus passengers will be better off staying on the bus till Wynyard (where they can change for the train or future light rail), I think it is reasonable to expect NWRL patronage to be similar to that of PRL, which was already considered too expensive by some. NWRL will have a significantly higher cost.

The only advantages of this metro proposal (over the previous proposal) are the introduction of competition and the improvement of frequency and travelling time on ECRL.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Upon completion, Epping-Chatswood section may be at capacity but the Epping-Rouse Hill section will be hardly full.
"stupid_girl"

Did you mean city-Chatswood section may be at capacity, not Epping-Chatswood, which surely won't be at capacity.
  mboi84 Junior Train Controller

Location: Sydney
Honestly I think having the NWRL done before a second harbour crossing is honestly stupid. Having to change trains to already packed North Shore Line services (which should be changed to northern line if you ask me - but thats a whole other debate) is and would be extremely frustrating and may lead to the downfall come election time.

I think the current NSW Government should look into the second harbour rail crossing at the same time as building the tunnels, connecting them with the disused platforms at maybe Wynyard, St James, Central and Redfern (if they are still not in use or demolished in any way).

Just my opinion but as I have stated in another post, I don't have any technical expertise or engineering degrees etc, just venting my opinions per say.
  stupid_girl Assistant Commissioner

Upon completion, Epping-Chatswood section may be at capacity but the Epping-Rouse Hill section will be hardly full.
"stupid_girl"

Did you mean city-Chatswood section may be at capacity, not Epping-Chatswood, which surely won't be at capacity.
"simonl"

I mean that Epping-Chatswood is the only section of the future rapid transit system that may be at seating capacity. I expect that majority of passengers boarding before Epping will get a seat.

Regarding Blackadder's claim of "a overcrowded train for 40 mins to Chatswood then another 20 mins to the city", I agree with the 2nd part but not the 1st part. A passenger from Rouse Hill will likely get a seat on NWRL to Chatswood.
  Jsurfer Station Master

Location: Bankstown
Second harbor crossing is needed. Unfortunately were is the money going to come from ? I think for the time being to avoid congestion after the completion of the NWRL is to allow the single deck trains to run down through to Strathfield straight into Sydney terminal, NOT city circle or northshore line (exceptions can be made). This will allow peak time for northwest passengers  into central station. Sydney can run single deck trains already on its existing network. If so the electrical springs  will just need to be increased for the single deck trains.  

I was only a child but I still remember the days when the red rattlers (single deck trains) running with the S,K, C V set trains along with the Tangaras. Just look at the XPT or D.M.U.s

Then NWRL needs to connect to the northern line  to the city via Strathfield. It will assist.

Please some one notify the state government Razz
  unrailed Junior Train Controller

Please some one notify the state government Razz
"Jsurfer"


the message service is full or turned off. however we are still getting mail about the project. 
  Redaxe Locomotive Driver

Honestly I think having the NWRL done before a second harbour crossing is honestly stupid. Having to change trains to already packed North Shore Line services (which should be changed to northern line if you ask me - but thats a whole other debate) is and would be extremely frustrating and may lead to the downfall come election time.

I think the current NSW Government should look into the second harbour rail crossing at the same time as building the tunnels, connecting them with the disused platforms at maybe Wynyard, St James, Central and Redfern (if they are still not in use or demolished in any way).

Just my opinion but as I have stated in another post, I don't have any technical expertise or engineering degrees etc, just venting my opinions per say.
"mboi84"


I wonder why they didn't choose to extend it to North Sydney from Chatswood? It's not really that much further and there is some land reserved for extra tracks as far as St Leonards. It could go underground and stop at St Leonards, Crows Nest and then Nth Sydney. A lot of people from the Nth Shore do get out at StLeonards and Nth Sydney by which time usually the harbour crossing is a bit emptier. Nth Sydney might be the best option for now to serve as a junction?.



  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
I say bring back the NW Metro, even though I hated it when first proposed.  What's the advantage of the current plan over the old one?  None.  Interchange at Epping to reach North Sydney as compared to interchanging at Chatswood?

Or maybe Sydneysiders should vote in a competent government.

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