Northern Sydney Freight Corridor (NSFC)

 
  UP9372 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Banned
If you have a look at the Epping to Thornleigh 3rd track , a distance of 6.56 KM of new track
which is costing $592 million , thats $90 million per km.
Is this the most expensive rail line ever laid in Australia?

To put this in perspective , the cost on a per km basis of building the Channel Tunnel was $40 million per km.
The Gotthard Tunnel under the Swiss Alps is only costing $80 million per km.


Where on earth is all the money going?

"MD"


Getting that third track in is not going to be easy and that is why it is expensive. At the Epping end that brand new sub-station has to go and be re-located and just look at Pennant Hills, that is going to be a logistics nightmare. Does the cost include fitting out Cheltenham as an easy access station with lifts etc?  But for the expense of electrification it would have been cheaper to tunnel a new route (as shown on the plans), but electrifying all the way to Brisbane is just not on.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Shane 100 km/h track is useless when following all stations tin cans .
"BDA"


Agree, but not against realign with a passing lane between Berowa and Mt Colah either, just cost. However surely its much better to cruise on 80 or what ever km/hr than speeding up and slowing down for all those curves and without the bends, section times would be faster.

To continue the dream, post Bewora, the line would cross the freeway by-passing Cowan (which would become the new terminus (again) for syd sparks) and then start decending eariler to the river and avoiding the further rise to Mt Colah. Looking at the topology in person and G earth, don't see what not possible apart from cost.

Nth of the Haws bridge, go through the tunnel, then significant realignment which again does not look overly costly along the route to Wondabyne and up to the right hand curve to line up to Woy Woy tunnel. Perhaps yes add a passing lane at this location. Curve easing from Koolingwong to Pt Claire to help maintain higher speeds.
  edison Chief Commissioner

Agree with RTT's comments. Have often thought that aftter the staright stretch north of Mullet Ck tunnel, where the bends to Wondabyne start, why not build a long straight low-profile viaduct over the water, instead of slavishly following the shoreline of several inlets, as it does now. Might have to move some oyster leases, but shore-dwelling fauna would still have access to the present shoreline.

Edison
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
This is what you get for $2b to facilitate rail freight traffic into and out of Sydney (including the almost $1b ARTC found to build the SSFL).

These things should have been done back when someone came up with the bright idea of a freight curfew Rolling Eyes 
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
.... Does the cost include fitting out Cheltenham as an easy access station with lifts etc?  ....
"UP9372"


Information is periodically updated on the TNSW NSFC site. http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/Projects-Northern-Sydney-Freight-Corridor-Program

Check out http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/b2b/projects/TPD_NSFC_ETTT_Pre-Tender_Briefing.pdf

The strategy document (link I previously posted) indicates the 4 NSFC projects are meant to suffice to 2028. Future options are covered.

For the realists (keeping such things in perspective)...  freight access from the south was acknowledged as essential national infrastructure almost 25 years ago - the SSFL is only being built now (being funded by ARTC borrowings Rolling Eyes ).
  MD Chief Commissioner

Location: Canbera
Are the new passing lines going to be electrified, and if so will the passenger priority principles
and the curfew apply.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Are the new passing lines going to be electrified, and if so will the passenger priority principles
and the curfew apply.
"MD"


You'd have to ask yourself why the feds would put up $840m for a rail freight initiative and nothing changes...

That's why the deal included a 20-year Memorandum of Understanding to guarantee more freight trains better access to the corridor.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Are the new passing lines going to be electrified, and if so will the passenger priority principles
and the curfew apply.
"MD"


You'd have to ask yourself why the feds would put up $840m for a rail freight initiative and nothing changes...

That's why the deal included a 20-year Memorandum of Understanding to guarantee more freight trains better access to the corridor.
"cootanee"
is


The line is part of the interstate and busy commuter rail route. Its funding therefore complicated, but agreed funding needs to be aimed at reducing and eliminating the curfew. Ideally you build the passing lanes for most flexibility, ie sparked, leaving the more expensive tunnels and bridges nth of Hawesberry Station for another decade, but really there is little benefit for sparks along this route to pass each other so may as well leave it unwired.

South of Bewora, things are a bit different with sparks, but I suppose same applies.

Long term if you were to join all the passing lanes together, then yes it could be that one of the outer lines is dewired and becomes freight only and potentially raises the option of Double stacking should the clearances be suitable. For example at the river crossing, the 3rd line could use the old tunnel on south side of river with a lowered floor, a new bridge spanning above the old pilons on new columns and then follow the old route to the current main. At Woy Woy you need a new tunnel.

Yes its a big project, and would be done in useful bites over 10 years, but its doable and practical and beats further west and work at same time an benefit commuter rail and increase capacity through faster transit times. 
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
The feds are firstly and secondly involved because this supports the national movement of freight by rail. I'd be surprised if ARTC didn't advised the DOTRS on what it required and what they wouldn't want.  Anyone got a copy of the MOA???

As for what the future holds - the strategy document covers the realistic options from the decision makers perspective. This lot is meant to do till 2028!
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Epping to Thornleigh Third Track Project EIS

http://majorprojects.planning.nsw.gov.au/index.pl?action=view_job&job_id=5132


  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Ultimately I think its better if passing lanes are wired on the short North , it provides flexibility and prevents tin cans being wrong roaded into unwired sections . If passing lanes are going through stations it would be silly not to build platform access because its ususlly better to put slower trains into passing lanes than longer faster ones . If the pass has to stop its no issue to run through points and back out to the main on departure . Meanwhile the freighter runs through on the main and stands the best chance of not blocking the now following pass .
Still very disapointing that a Hexham Fassi bypass is not on the cards because if anything getting through Broadmeadow and back to Fassi is a greater minefield than Hawksbury River bank .
Epping is going to be a problem but mainly because of the whole Epping Chatswood fiasco . Braindead morons spent squillions on a silly line that would have been better served by busses and bus lanes - even with tunnels . With luck the Parramatta Epping line will never eventuate .
Its going to be difficult to add through capacity at Epping because of where the dives are into and out of the underground station .   
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
A billion doesn't get you far these days Sad
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Too true , Juliars mob have thrown billions at different things that were never going to be a winner . Shame they didn't reserve a couple of extra bills to throw at rail projects because there is some chance of success with them .
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Too true , Luliars mob have thrown billions at different things that were never going to be a winner . Shame they didn't reserve a couple of extra bills to throw at rail projects because there is some chance of success with them .
"BDA"


As an agnostic I don't have faith in either religion. Rolling Eyes

In fact the other creed didn't achieve much either. Apparently blew billions more chasing voters with tax cuts and middle class welfare. Shocked
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!

Surprised Doesn't look like anyone picked up on this... 

Both the North Strathfield Rail Underpass and Gosford Passing Loops projects were approved in October.

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/Projects-Northern-Sydney-Freight-Corridor-Program/north-strathfield-rail-underpass/environment 

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/Projects-Northern-Sydney-Freight-Corridor-Program/gosford-passing-loops/environment 



  Dover Chief Train Controller

Surprised Doesn't look like anyone picked up on this...

Both the North Strathfield Rail Underpass and Gosford Passing Loops projects were approved in October.

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/Projects-Northern-Sydney-Freight-Corridor-Program/north-strathfield-rail-underpass/environment

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/Projects-Northern-Sydney-Freight-Corridor-Program/gosford-passing-loops/environment


"cootanee"


Minor Signalling Works are underway at North Strathfield in advance of construction starting.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney



At the Epping end that brand new sub-station has to go and be re-located

"UP9372"


At least the brand new substation north of Cheltenham is placed 1 or 2 tracks width from the down main, and needs no change.

Many of the overbridges have a track-worths of space between the pair alongside the track-side pier and the abutment. The abutment can be converted into a pier and there is sort of enough room for the NSFC track, not allowing for any slew needed to get around any nearby "island" platforms

Since there are no crossovers between the DM and NSFC tracks, the NSFC track does not have to be at the same level as the DM.

  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!

Downer EDI - NSFC Gosford Passing Loops...

http://www.finnewsnetwork.com.au/archives/finance_news_network22720.html

  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney


At the Epping end that brand new sub-station has to go and be re-located and just look at Pennant Hills, that is going to be a logistics nightmare. Does the cost include fitting out Cheltenham as an easy access station with lifts etc? But for the expense of electrification it would have been cheaper to tunnel a new route (as shown on the plans), but electrifying all the way to Brisbane is just not on.
"UP9372"


If the old signalbox at Hornsby can be moved out of the way, then perhaps brand-new substations can be moved also????

BTW, the signalling on the Telarah-Casino CTC is compatible with 25kV electrification.



  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!




At the Epping end that brand new sub-station has to go and be re-located and just look at Pennant Hills, that is going to be a logistics nightmare. Does the cost include fitting out Cheltenham as an easy access station with lifts etc? But for the expense of electrification it would have been cheaper to tunnel a new route (as shown on the plans), but electrifying all the way to Brisbane is just not on.
"UP9372"


If the old signalbox at Hornsby can be moved out of the way, then perhaps brand-new substations can be moved also????

BTW, the signalling on the Telarah-Casino CTC is compatible with 25kV electrification.



"awsgc24"


Is the sub-station relocation covered in the EA?

  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!






At the Epping end that brand new sub-station has to go and be re-located and just look at Pennant Hills, that is going to be a logistics nightmare. Does the cost include fitting out Cheltenham as an easy access station with lifts etc? But for the expense of electrification it would have been cheaper to tunnel a new route (as shown on the plans), but electrifying all the way to Brisbane is just not on.
"UP9372"


If the old signalbox at Hornsby can be moved out of the way, then perhaps brand-new substations can be moved also????

BTW, the signalling on the Telarah-Casino CTC is compatible with 25kV electrification.



"awsgc24"


Is the sub-station relocation covered in the EA?

"cootanee"


The EA does refer to a sectioning hut and signalling hut - neither will be moved.

  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

The track diagrams on the NSFC plans are not to scale and it is a little hard to say how much standing room there is between the F4 overpass and Homebush Bay Drive.

Two bridges on the wrong side of the new turnouts give a length of 2500m, which if you deduct say 400m for the turnouts, gives a length of 2100m, which is well clear of 1500m and 1800m long trains.

A train entering the Dive line on a X80 turnout has 1000m to slow down to say 60kmh if there is any speed limit on the somewhat dog-legged dive tunnel, and 2500 to slow down to a say 40km/m speed limit on the 10 chain (200m) curve on the triangle loop towards Flemington.

FYI, the Glenfield flyover on the SSFL has a 60km/h speed limit imposed by what looks to be a dog-leg.

The NSFC dive tunnel is lower than the land on either side, but there is no specific mention of a pump to pump the water up and out. This pump would need to have a automatic wet=on/dry=off switch.

See: http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/b2b/projects/TP_NSFC_NSRU_REF_5_A.pdf


  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Something that occured to me is a few mods to increase flexibility at Wyong . The terminating platform road is on the up side and it wouldn't take a lot of work to make this a run through road . It could be extended to the north and a medium speed turnout spliced in - say 50 km/h set .  The Sydney end has from memory a pathetic low speed crossover into/out of this dead end road .

Aside from an expensive subway I'm not sure whats possible on the down side .    
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney



The track diagrams on the NSFC plans are not to scale and it is a little hard to say how much standing room there is between the F4 overpass and Homebush Bay Drive.

Two bridges on the wrong side of the new turnouts give a length of 2500m, which if you deduct say 400m for the turnouts, gives a length of 2100m, which is well clear of 1500m and 1800m long trains.

A train entering the Dive line on a X80 turnout has 1000m to slow down to say 60kmh if there is any speed limit on the somewhat dog-legged dive tunnel, and 2500 to slow down to a say 40km/m speed limit on the 10 chain (200m) curve on the triangle loop towards Flemington.

FYI, the Glenfield flyover on the SSFL has a 60km/h speed limit imposed by what looks to be a dog-leg.

The NSFC dive tunnel is lower than the land on either side, but there is no specific mention of a pump to pump the water up and out. This pump would need to have a automatic wet=on/dry=off switch.

See: http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/b2b/projects/TP_NSFC_NSRU_REF_5_A.pdf


"awsgc24"


For the pump for the underpass, see: http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/b2b/projects/TP_NSFC_NSRU_REF_6_C.pdf




  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Has any work started or a start been planned yet ?

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