Construction Progress Southern Sydney Freight Line 2009-13

 
  boxythingy Chief Commissioner

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  Piston Train Controller

Can anyone confirm if there is to be a crossing loop on the SSFL flyover at Glenfield. If so will it be a 1500 or 1800 metre loop?

With rate of tracklaying progress, when is the likely opening of the line?
  Dover Chief Train Controller

Can anyone confirm if there is to be a crossing loop on the SSFL flyover at Glenfield. If so will it be a 1500 or 1800 metre loop?

With rate of tracklaying progress, when is the likely opening of the line?
"Piston"


There will be an 1800m loop on the flyover at Glenfield. Commissioning due Christmas. If I understand things correctly, the commissioning need not involve RailCorp - so the timing is entirely up to ARTC.

(assuming all the 'back office' and radio issues are sorted)
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Can anyone confirm if there is to be a crossing loop on the SSFL flyover at Glenfield. If so will it be a 1500 or 1800 metre loop?

With rate of tracklaying progress, when is the likely opening of the line?
"Piston"


There will be an 1800m loop on the flyover at Glenfield. Commissioning due Christmas. If I understand things correctly, the commissioning need not involve RailCorp - so the timing is entirely up to ARTC.

(assuming all the 'back office' and radio issues are sorted)
"Dover"


Oh I'd say Railcorp does have some input here  Wink

For Piston if you're interested, recommend a troll thru the SSFL site for background info http://www.ssfl.artc.com.au/documents/
  raymcd Locomotive Driver

Location: Artarmon NSW
Villawood-Carramar signalling works are planned for this weekend.

http://www.ssfl.artc.com.au/_docs/pn/2012-10-19_Villawood%20to%20Canley%20Vale%20.pdf
"cootanee"

I note that SSFL signals are NSWR double-light style. One wonders why the single light indications could not have been continued along the SSFL. Cityrail trains will not run on it. (Apologies if this question has been aired previously).
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Villawood-Carramar signalling works are planned for this weekend.

http://www.ssfl.artc.com.au/_docs/pn/2012-10-19_Villawood%20to%20Canley%20Vale%20.pdf
"cootanee"

I note that SSFL signals are NSWR double-light style. One wonders why the single light indications could not have been continued along the SSFL. Cityrail trains will not run on it. (Apologies if this question has been aired previously).
"raymcd"


For the day Sydney Trains takes it over Wink

P.S. It's also subject to their 80kph freight train limit from just south of Glenfield.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Why you'd want to be doing better than 80 with todays trains north of Glenfield is a good question . The mains were at best 100 between Chester Hill and Cabramatta junction .
I think RC/STs only concern is how SSFL would have any impact on the main lines . Since there is unlikely to be any interface between the two north of Glen Alpine the control function will be ARTCs .
Its logical to use double colour light signalling in areas where traffic density can be high and with longer heavier services .
You may get issues if a double colour light failed , say one light out , and a single colour one near it caused confusion .
  Dover Chief Train Controller

Its logical to use double colour light signalling in areas where traffic density can be high and with longer heavier services . You may get issues if a double colour light failed , say one light out , and a single colour one near it caused confusion .
"BDA"


Correct in terms of the potential confusion of double / single colour light.

I haven't seen all of what's been built on the SSFL, but given the distance between interlockings double light isn't necessarily needed for headway. The first Up signal on approach to Glenfield is a fair way out (i.e. the Country Side of Macquarie Fields), so it would be possible to go straight from Caution to Stop at the entry to the loop. Whether that it would be good for train crews is another matter...


  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
... I think RC/STs only concern is how SSFL would have any impact on the main lines . Since there is unlikely to be any interface between the two north of Glen Alpine the control function will be ARTCs ...
"BDA"


An ARTC/RC interface agreed to in the approved EA is at Leightonfield.   

RC required the loop to be 1600m rather than 900m originally proposed, specifically to accommodate 1500m trains leaving the SSFL to join RC line there.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Looks like a pedestrian access tunnel has been built under the SSFL at C/town yard.  

There appears to be room north and south for RC to extend the yard for two lines.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Can't see the mac station one from the bus. I saw the tracks removed under narellan rd last week, but they're back in place as of last Tuesday, unless there's a small section right under the bridge that I can't see from the road.
"jcouch"


There right below the bridge so you would not see it from the bus. Between the signal and the bridge.
But it does look like stablisation piering.
"Keith1954"


Yep... the short cutout just to the south of the bridge had work crews with piering tubes. The other cutout bit just north of Mac station had piering reo lying about. Looks related to the adjacent watercourses.
"cootanee"


They were working on the section just north of Mac yesterday, Boring equipment and cement mixer onsite.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Just north from Campbelltown, the SSFL track sits about 600mm lower than the RC lines. No biggie as there wasn't going to be connection there anyway (theoretically only - for Clink trains to use the SSFL whilst still having access to C/town). 



  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Villawood-Carramar signalling works are planned for this weekend.

http://www.ssfl.artc.com.au/_docs/pn/2012-10-19_Villawood%20to%20Canley%20Vale%20.pdf
"cootanee"

I note that SSFL signals are NSWR double-light style. One wonders why the single light indications could not have been continued along the SSFL. Cityrail trains will not run on it. (Apologies if this question has been aired previously).
"raymcd"


The last signals on the SSFL at Macarthur are Single Light, though the changeover point from double light to single light is unclear.

The signals approaching the various Home signals such as loop Home signals are Distant signals with no Upper Red lamps. The spacing between these Home and Distant signals may be enough to allow a higher speed than 80km/h.

The crossing Loop Home signals appear to be 200m-300m from the tip of the points so that this distance from the Home signals to the Loop starting signals would be about 1800m+100m+200m=2100m, also perhaps allowing more than 80km/h. This is like CTC loops on the North Coast.

The Loop home signals have G/Y/R+G/Y/R+2*RI+Subsidiary Y-or-G?

These Loop Distant signals have Junction Indicators, and bottom R/Y/G lights.

The speed of the loop turnouts is not known. Whether the Glenfield Loop is on the East or West Side is also not known.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Looks like a pedestrian access tunnel has been built under the SSFL at C/town yard.

"cootanee"


Quite so. This located about halfway along the longest stabling siding which holds 4 trains (640m). The stairs are covered for weather protection and safety.

It may connect a staff car park and admin building with the stabling sidings, avoiding any risk that a pedestrian level crossing might incur.

The old admin building and carpark was IIRC opposite the platforms and had to be demolished to make room for the SSFL .

At the south end of the platforms there also appears to be a staff only footbridge connecting the platforms (P1&P2, P3) with the stabling sidings, and probably a footpath connected with the car park and admin building mentioned above.

At the bottom of each set of stairs leading to this staff footbridge, which is quite narrow, is a presumably locked steel gate that keeps trespassers out.
  Dover Chief Train Controller

Villawood-Carramar signalling works are planned for this weekend.

http://www.ssfl.artc.com.au/_docs/pn/2012-10-19_Villawood%20to%20Canley%20Vale%20.pdf
"cootanee"

I note that SSFL signals are NSWR double-light style. One wonders why the single light indications could not have been continued along the SSFL. Cityrail trains will not run on it. (Apologies if this question has been aired previously).
"raymcd"


The last signals on the SSFL at Macarthur are Single Light, though the changeover point from double light to single light is unclear.

"awsgc24"


I don't know, but if I were a betting man I'd say between Leumeah and Campbelltown per the RailCorp network.



The signals approaching the various Home signals such as loop Home signals are Distant signals with no Upper Red lamps. The spacing between these Home and Distant signals may be enough to allow a higher speed than 80km/h.


The crossing Loop Home signals appear to be 200m-300m from the tip of the points so that this distance from the Home signals to the Loop starting signals would be about 1800m+100m+200m=2100m, also perhaps allowing more than 80km/h. This is like CTC loops on the North Coast.

"awsgc24"


Assuming (per statements elsewhere) that the speed on the SSFL is 115kmh between Glenlee and Glenfield and 80kmh and Glenfield and Enfield West, 1800m signal spacing appears to be good enough (back of the envelope calc) for 80kmh running (assuming the GW40 braking curve and gradient >1:100 falling).

The interesting signals in terms of spacing are the Up Distant and Home at Glenfield. From what I remember, the Up Home is near the carpark at Glenfield and the Distant is on the country side of Macquarie Fields substation. Is this right? If so, that's about 2.5km spacing, which is good enough for 115kmh running.

Thing that might be of interest awsgc24 is that the allowable speed (excluding all other factors) approaching an interlocking is dependent on signal spacing (Distant to Home in this instance). The distance in advance of the Home Signals to the opposing Starting Signals is the overlap - which is as you'd know your 'margin' of safety. Now to seemingly contradict myself, when a full overlap isn't available or is obstructed, then speed restrictions are applied to rail traffic (viz the Low Speeds used on CTC loops etc).



The Loop home signals have G/Y/R+G/Y/R+2*RI+Subsidiary Y-or-G?

"awsgc24"


You never know - they may go for both G and Y subsidiaries, depending on the design. If not both, I'd bet the subsidiary would be a yellow to allow for shunt moves to occur.


  Gregois Beginner

The rail and ballast had reached Casula at Friday, with rail and ballast already on the Glenfield flyover heading North towards Casula.
I'd say it's likely they have already or will meet this week.




  Dover Chief Train Controller

The rail and ballast had reached Casula at Friday, with rail and ballast already on the Glenfield flyover heading North towards Casula.
I'd say it's likely they have already or will meet this week.

"Gregois"


Nice shots!

From the civil side of things, they may even have a shot at commissioning the line on 1/2 December...

That said, there's three weekends already booked in January for closedowns on the Southern Highlands line - let the speculation begin!
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Latest CLG presentations are up on the SSFL internet site summarising works planned during Nov/Dec.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Villawood-Carramar signalling works are planned for this weekend.

http://www.ssfl.artc.com.au/_docs/pn/2012-10-19_Villawood%20to%20Canley%20Vale%20.pdf
"cootanee"

I note that SSFL signals are NSWR double-light style. One wonders why the single light indications could not have been continued along the SSFL. Cityrail trains will not run on it. (Apologies if this question has been aired previously).
"raymcd"


The last signals on the SSFL at Macarthur are Single Light, though the changeover point from double light to single light is unclear.

"awsgc24"


I don't know, but if I were a betting man I'd say between Leumeah and Campbelltown per the RailCorp network.



The signals approaching the various Home signals such as loop Home signals are Distant signals with no Upper Red lamps. The spacing between these Home and Distant signals may be enough to allow a higher speed than 80km/h.


The crossing Loop Home signals appear to be 200m-300m from the tip of the points so that this distance from the Home signals to the Loop starting signals would be about 1800m+100m+200m=2100m, also perhaps allowing more than 80km/h. This is like CTC loops on the North Coast.

"awsgc24"


Assuming (per statements elsewhere) that the speed on the SSFL is 115kmh between Glenlee and Glenfield and 80kmh and Glenfield and Enfield West, 1800m signal spacing appears to be good enough (back of the envelope calc) for 80kmh running (assuming the GW40 braking curve and gradient >1:100 falling).

The interesting signals in terms of spacing are the Up Distant and Home at Glenfield. From what I remember, the Up Home is near the carpark at Glenfield and the Distant is on the country side of Macquarie Fields substation. Is this right? If so, that's about 2.5km spacing, which is good enough for 115kmh running.

Thing that might be of interest awsgc24 is that the allowable speed (excluding all other factors) approaching an interlocking is dependent on signal spacing (Distant to Home in this instance). The distance in advance of the Home Signals to the opposing Starting Signals is the overlap - which is as you'd know your 'margin' of safety. Now to seemingly contradict myself, when a full overlap isn't available or is obstructed, then speed restrictions are applied to rail traffic (viz the Low Speeds used on CTC loops etc).



The Loop home signals have G/Y/R+G/Y/R+2*RI+Subsidiary Y-or-G?

"awsgc24"


You never know - they may go for both G and Y subsidiaries, depending on the design. If not both, I'd bet the subsidiary would be a yellow to allow for shunt moves to occur.

"Dover"


The redrawn ARTC Curve and Gradient Diagrams for Liverpool-Glenlee show that gradients are generally better than 1 in 100, mostly uphill towards Glenlee, though it is hard to calculate the true average figure.

See: http://extranet.artc.com.au/docs/eng/network-config/cd/nsw/section_2_south/section_2_south_S00.pdf

ARTC have been installing nominal rather than full overlaps at the new loops they are building on the North Coast, and Running Lanes between Junee and Melbourne, say 500m instead of say 2100m. Thus the Starting signals at Yerong Creek are 500m from the end of the loop, not 2100m.

Subsidiary signals can of course be Bi-Polar and show both Yellow and Green lights. The small green would be for a low speed arrivals, while a small Yellow would be for shunting and for track circuit failures, such as miscounts of the Axle Counters.

If an axle counter over a set of points miscounts, there are two problems:
* the points fail;
* being an "A" track, it can fail the Shunt signals.
* There may be therefore some sense in making the tracks over points Jeumont Scheider track circuits, so there is no miscount problem to worry about.
* It remains to be seen how the miscount problem will be tackled.

It remains to be seen if there will be any Intermediate Block Signals between crossing loops, to enable closer headway for following moves.

At Villawood, the old cement siding has been replaced with a dead end Ballast siding, pointing the other way (facing up trains). It remains to be seen if this is temporary or permanent.

Would the SSFL be equipped with any kind of AWS/TrainStop/ERCTS/etc ? ARTC are working on some kind of control system for country lines, especially those with little or no signalling.



  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
...

At Villawood, the old cement siding has been replaced with a dead end Ballast siding, pointing the other way (facing up trains). It remains to be seen if this is temporary or permanent.

...

"awsgc24"


It was set up when they started laying track from that end. The track proper will be reinstated once they're done with it.

...

Would the SSFL be equipped with any kind of AWS/TrainStop/ERCTS/etc ? ARTC are working on some kind of control system for country lines, especially those with little or no signalling.


"awsgc24"


Are you thinking ATMS? That would be consistent with its scope although it's got some way to go yet. 

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11327619-s75.htm
http://atms.artc.com.au/
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
...

At Villawood, the old cement siding has been replaced with a dead end Ballast siding, pointing the other way (facing up trains). It remains to be seen if this is temporary or permanent.

...

"awsgc24"


It was set up when they started laying track from that end. The track proper will be reinstated once they're done with it.

...

Would the SSFL be equipped with any kind of AWS/TrainStop/ERCTS/etc ? ARTC are working on some kind of control system for country lines, especially those with little or no signalling.


"awsgc24"


Are you thinking ATMS? That would be consistent with its scope although it's got some way to go yet.

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11327619-s75.htm
http://atms.artc.com.au/
"cootanee"


Yes. ATMS sounds about right.

Some kind of ATP/etc would be consistant with the reduced 500m overlaps approaching the crossing loop Home and Starting signals (remember Violet Town collision of 196x).





  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney



The new platform 4 at Liverpool is reasonably complete. It is much straighter than the existing Run Round Road which has been somewhat useless since the 1920s in the case of electrification as far as Liverpool, and 1968 in the case of electrification beyond Liverpool.

It would be a mistake to think that there is a P4/P5 island platform. The stairs and lift are flush with  the edge of the putative platform "5" and live platforms cannot have structure built right next to the edge. Consider the Down Shore platform at Town Hall, which is one-sided and is not  really an "island" platform. Similarly Down ESR platform at Town Hall.

As yet there is no fence on Liverpool Platform "5" so we may have to wait and see.

Platform 4 will be the new Down South.

  Gregois Beginner

Here is a view of Casula station area progress at end of today.

Some machinery included and I'll be honest, I am not sure what they are called and true purpose.
It's obvious they relate to ballast, somehow Very Happy


These are the signals at northern end of the Glenfield flyover loop:


Looking north from the platform end:


This is looking south form same spot:


Looking south from the footbridge:




The machinery awaiting next days ops:





  Waratah842 Junior Train Controller

Location: On Earth
Nice pictures there. The trains will be able to run there soon by the looks of it
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney


These are the signals at northern end of the Glenfield flyover loop:
"Gregois"







In NSW the Main Starting and Loop Starting signals are of different heights. It helps pick the right one.

In VIC, SA, and perhaps elsewhere Main and Loop signals are of the same height.

Hard to say with these signals at Glenfield Loop.

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