Proposed Timtables for CityRail/Sydney and CountryLink/NSW

 
  djf01 Chief Commissioner



You got me re-thinking this Watson.

Here is a timetable using just Rail Motors.

Canberra is Endevourised using the Goulburn fleet.
NW only gets Scone commuters off peak

Melbourne gets Xplorered, but to make up the seat shortfall, and Endeavour is attached for the first half of the DOWN journey, and returns with the equivalent UP service.

Something similar happens with the North Coast line.  At 8:00am an 8 car trains leaves central.  Rear 2 cars drop off at Wachuope & return with the equivelent UP service.  At Grafton the train splits, the lead 2 cars continue to Brisbane and return the next day.  The rear 4 cars return to Sydney overnight.

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  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I don't meant to be rude about it, but that sounds dire.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
I don't meant to be rude about it, but that sounds dire.
"Watson374"


Agreed, passenger revenue will drop right off if people have to sit on Endeavours for 4.5-5 hours, likewise for Xplorers to Melbourne. Xplorers and Endeavours bomb out often enough doing shuttles (MV-C'town) and medium journeys (Syd-Canberra). Having them do runs all the way to Melbourne and back has disaster written all over it. The furthest Xplorers should do really is 7 hours and 3.5 hours for Endeavours, unless you intend on upgrading all of the Canberra Endeavours to Xplorer interior quality (not that Xplorers have that much quality really).
  djf01 Chief Commissioner


wrote:
I don't meant to be rude about it, but that sounds dire.


Watson374


Agreed, passenger revenue will drop right off if people have to sit on Endeavours for 4.5-5 hours, likewise for Xplorers to Melbourne. Xplorers and Endeavours bomb out often enough doing shuttles (MV-C'town) and medium journeys (Syd-Canberra). Having them do runs all the way to Melbourne and back has disaster written all over it. The furthest Xplorers should do really is 7 hours and 3.5 hours for Endeavours, unless you intend on upgrading all of the Canberra Endeavours to Xplorer interior quality (not that Xplorers have that much quality really).
bowralcommuter

How about Bathurst?

I know one of the justifications for NSW trains was to prevent the continued suburbanisation of the distance rolling stock fleet.  But ... I don't think that's going to stop it!

Perhaps a more realistic version of my timetable would have the "Wauchope Wocket" & the "Wagga Wanderer" operate like the Bathurst Bullet and Dubbo XPT does: with Endeavours offering a "new" UP-DOWN service taking some load off the primary DOWN-UP service.

And as for Endeavourising the Canberra Branch - they already take most of the Goulburn Traffic, and that's too far!  

As Bowral Commuter knows all too well, there are 2 morning UP Endeavours from Goulburn that are ex-Moss Vale.  They effectively run dead for an hour from Mossy to Goulburn before they do a revenue run with actual revenue.

If these were to overnight-at/start-from Canberra, the cost of operating them hardly changes at all.  On top of that, Canberra is a fully staffed station, with 3 members of staff there 12-18 hours a day to deal with 0.12 trains an hour.

So running the Canberra trains with no reserved seating, no checked luggage, and a single TA instead of a guard is going to save $10 mil a year, and the only real difference to the standard of service are the seats.

In the comming decade there is going to be real pressure to "do something" about the ageing XPT fleet, and somehow I doubt this is going to involve buying a new train.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
How about Bathurst?

I know one of the justifications for NSW trains was to prevent the continued suburbanisation of the distance rolling stock fleet.  But ... I don't think that's going to stop it!

Perhaps a more realistic version of my timetable would have the "Wauchope Wocket" & the "Wagga Wanderer" operate like the Bathurst Bullet and Dubbo XPT does: with Endeavours offering a "new" UP-DOWN service taking some load off the primary DOWN-UP service.

And as for Endeavourising the Canberra Branch - they already take most of the Goulburn Traffic, and that's too far!  

As Bowral Commuter knows all too well, there are 2 morning UP Endeavours from Goulburn that are ex-Moss Vale.  They effectively run dead for an hour from Mossy to Goulburn before they do a revenue run with actual revenue.

If these were to overnight-at/start-from Canberra, the cost of operating them hardly changes at all.  On top of that, Canberra is a fully staffed station, with 3 members of staff there 12-18 hours a day to deal with 0.12 trains an hour.

So running the Canberra trains with no reserved seating, no checked luggage, and a single TA instead of a guard is going to save $10 mil a year, and the only real difference to the standard of service are the seats.

In the comming decade there is going to be real pressure to "do something" about the ageing XPT fleet, and somehow I doubt this is going to involve buying a new train.
"djf01"


I'm sure if you were to ask those on the Bathurst Bullet about the service, they'll tell you the seating is bad. The thing is, before the Bathurst Bullet, there was no day return for Bathurst so it's kind of a "anything is better than nothing" scenario. Where as, Canberra already has Xplorer seating, downgrading it will let the media explode and passengers may well take the plane or coach.

Yes, there are 2 early Morning MV-GLB services that get no-one (although one is timetabled, the other just goes straight to Goulburn). The 04:59 up Goulburn doesn't even get that much traffic I'd say, there wasn't a lot on when I got on at Bundanoon last month (5 boarded at Bundanoon, after a quick count I think 5-10 were on before the train loaded at Bundanoon). Just to confirm I may drive to Goulburn just the once one time soon when circumstances allow it. As for the actual down services, the first Goulburn splits at MV, heads to Goulburn then departs with about 5 passengers at 19:28. The second is the peak to Goulburn, heads back to MV/C'town at 21:13 (depending on the day of week) with no-one on board I'd say.

As for staffing, 1 guard/attendant and 1 serving food at the buffet is the most cutting I'd do. Vending machines can break or leave a passenger ripped off at anytime in the journey, and we can't have a sub-contractor from the owner of the vending machine sit on the train in case it screws up! However I think no reserve seating and checked luggage is good.

I think Goulburn and Bathurst shouldn't be in Cityrail territory, have a bus for the current 10 that get on at Goulburn, stop on highway for Marulan then express to Campbelltown, should get more patronage being only 1.5 hours to the 2hr 20 trip currently. Likewise with return peak trip. Then swap the Canberra slot (Sydney 11am) with the Wagga, which is the current Goulburn (10am). Bathurst should just use shuttles to and from Lithgow, like Maitland-Newcastle is now. As for Scone, I'd run Tamworth-Broadmeadow shuttles, then the Endeavour is only used for short runs. Dungog-Newcastle would then be the longest trip being 1.5 hours.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
This is what I'm going to post to my local member:


With Sydney trains and NSW Trainlink coming into affect 1 July 2013 and the new timetable later this year, I would like to propose a different way to run trains along the Southern Region. There are 4 issues I’d like to discuss; frequency, peak hour services, extension to Wagga Wagga and Canberra and Melbourne service alterations.

Frequency

Currently Southern Highland trains have a varied frequency from every 30 minutes in PM peak period to 2.5 hours in the middle of the day weekdays and more often than not, trains run every 1.5 to 2 hours on weekends. To best serve the Southern Highlands I think trains should run every 30 minutes in AM and PM peak, with 1-hour frequencies between these periods, weekends included. Early morning and late evening services excluded. To help schedule this proposal, all services start and terminate at Moss Vale and Campbelltown. How to convey passengers to and from Goulburn and passengers wishing to travel to and from Central directly will be talked about later in this letter.


Peak Hour services

Off peak services can run all stations to and from Moss Vale and Campbelltown since trains run only hourly but during peak periods this doesn’t have to be the case. There should be a service in each peak period that has the following stopping pattern: Moss Vale, Bowral, Mittagong, Picton, Macarthur, Campbelltown and vice versa. The connecting suburban service runs via East Hills and Sydenham. This stopping pattern will allow a Moss Vale commuter to travel to and from the city in 2 hours.


No peak hour trains run to and from Goulburn due to low patronage and reliability issues. To accommodate for passengers wishing to arrive at Central early from Goulburn and arrive home late, an express coach will depart Goulburn at 5:30am, pick up at Marulan along the Hume highway at 5:50am and arrive Campbelltown station at 7:10am for connecting suburban services. Travel time is also significantly shorter, being approximately 1 hour and 40 minutes hours travel to Campbelltown, in comparison to the 2 hours 15 minutes currently by train from Goulburn to Campbelltown. The 35 minutes reduction in travel time may also increase patronage. Passengers from Bundanoon are to catch the Wollongong bound service and change at Moss Vale for the express service to Campbelltown. A similar service is provided in PM peak. A coach to Goulburn will depart Campbelltown at 6:30pm, setting down at Marulan on the highway at 7:50pm before arriving at Goulburn at 8:10pm. Passengers for Bundanoon are to change at Moss Vale and board the bus departing outside the station at approximately 7:30pm.


Extension to Wagga
Wagga


The above services discussed require only 4 Endeavour sets weekdays and 3 on weekends. The 4th set can be used as standby in off-peak on the event a train has mechanical problems. The other 2 sets, which currently run to and from Goulburn and Central, are extended to Wagga Wagga and the 2 Endeavours are converted to Xplorer sets to accommodate the ever-growing need for better public transport to this region. This service stops at; Wagga Wagga, Junee, Harden, Yass Junction, Gunning, Goulburn, Bundanoon, Moss Vale, Bowral, Mittagong, setting down at Campbelltown and then arrive at Central at 11am via the East Hills line. The service departs Central back to Wagga Wagga at approximately 3:45pm.


Canberra and Melbourne service alterations

To accommodate for the Wagga Wagga service arriving at Central at 11am, the Canberra to Sydney service will now depart Canberra at 5:50am, arriving Central at 10am. The stopping pattern has some minor changes; services do not pick up or set down at Strathfield and goes via East Hills and Sydenham rather than Strathfield and Regents Park. The service will also make an additional stop at Picton. The 3rd service that operates to and from Canberra and Central in the evening 4 times a week becomes a daily service. Since no stations are now served between Bundanoon and Goulburn, a coach service will stop all stations between Goulburn and Moss Vale to connect with the morning Canberra Xplorer to Sydney and evening Sydney to Canberra service at Moss Vale.

With the extension of the Goulburn service to Wagga Wagga, the Melbourne XPT services will no longer stop at Harden, Yass Junction, Gunning and run via the East Hills line and not pick up or set down at Strathfield. The Melbourne, Canberra and Wagga Wagga economy classes will not require reservations to board the train. First Class seats will only be available on the Melbourne XPT, due to low popularity.

I hope you and or Gladys will take into account my proposal when publishing the timetable for the Southern region later this year.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

This is what I'm going to post to my local member:


With Sydney trains and NSW Trainlink coming into affect 1 July 2013 and the new timetable later this year, I would like to propose a different way to run trains along the Southern Region. There are 4 issues I’d like to discuss; frequency, peak hour services, extension to Wagga Wagga and Canberra and Melbourne service alterations.

Frequency

Currently Southern Highland trains have a varied frequency from every 30 minutes in PM peak period to 2.5 hours in the middle of the day weekdays and more often than not, trains run every 1.5 to 2 hours on weekends. To best serve the Southern Highlands I think trains should run every 30 minutes in AM and PM peak, with 1-hour frequencies between these periods, weekends included. Early morning and late evening services excluded. To help schedule this proposal, all services start and terminate at Moss Vale and Campbelltown. How to convey passengers to and from Goulburn and passengers wishing to travel to and from Central directly will be talked about later in this letter.


Peak Hour services

Off peak services can run all stations to and from Moss Vale and Campbelltown since trains run only hourly but during peak periods this doesn’t have to be the case. There should be a service in each peak period that has the following stopping pattern: Moss Vale, Bowral, Mittagong, Picton, Macarthur, Campbelltown and vice versa. The connecting suburban service runs via East Hills and Sydenham. This stopping pattern will allow a Moss Vale commuter to travel to and from the city in 2 hours.


No peak hour trains run to and from Goulburn due to low patronage and reliability issues. To accommodate for passengers wishing to arrive at Central early from Goulburn and arrive home late, an express coach will depart Goulburn at 5:30am, pick up at Marulan along the Hume highway at 5:50am and arrive Campbelltown station at 7:10am for connecting suburban services. Travel time is also significantly shorter, being approximately 1 hour and 40 minutes hours travel to Campbelltown, in comparison to the 2 hours 15 minutes currently by train from Goulburn to Campbelltown. The 35 minutes reduction in travel time may also increase patronage. Passengers from Bundanoon are to catch the Wollongong bound service and change at Moss Vale for the express service to Campbelltown. A similar service is provided in PM peak. A coach to Goulburn will depart Campbelltown at 6:30pm, setting down at Marulan on the highway at 7:50pm before arriving at Goulburn at 8:10pm. Passengers for Bundanoon are to change at Moss Vale and board the bus departing outside the station at approximately 7:30pm.


Extension to Wagga
Wagga


The above services discussed require only 4 Endeavour sets weekdays and 3 on weekends. The 4th set can be used as standby in off-peak on the event a train has mechanical problems. The other 2 sets, which currently run to and from Goulburn and Central, are extended to Wagga Wagga and the 2 Endeavours are converted to Xplorer sets to accommodate the ever-growing need for better public transport to this region. This service stops at; Wagga Wagga, Junee, Harden, Yass Junction, Gunning, Goulburn, Bundanoon, Moss Vale, Bowral, Mittagong, setting down at Campbelltown and then arrive at Central at 11am via the East Hills line. The service departs Central back to Wagga Wagga at approximately 3:45pm.


Canberra and Melbourne service alterations

To accommodate for the Wagga Wagga service arriving at Central at 11am, the Canberra to Sydney service will now depart Canberra at 5:50am, arriving Central at 10am. The stopping pattern has some minor changes; services do not pick up or set down at Strathfield and goes via East Hills and Sydenham rather than Strathfield and Regents Park. The service will also make an additional stop at Picton. The 3rd service that operates to and from Canberra and Central in the evening 4 times a week becomes a daily service. Since no stations are now served between Bundanoon and Goulburn, a coach service will stop all stations between Goulburn and Moss Vale to connect with the morning Canberra Xplorer to Sydney and evening Sydney to Canberra service at Moss Vale.

With the extension of the Goulburn service to Wagga Wagga, the Melbourne XPT services will no longer stop at Harden, Yass Junction, Gunning and run via the East Hills line and not pick up or set down at Strathfield. The Melbourne, Canberra and Wagga Wagga economy classes will not require reservations to board the train. First Class seats will only be available on the Melbourne XPT, due to low popularity.

I hope you and or Gladys will take into account my proposal when publishing the timetable for the Southern region later this year.
bowralcommuter

I'm not sure what time you've got the Wagga train leaving Wagga but for an 11:00am arrival at Sydney it's probably way too early, either 0430 or 0500.

I'd have thought the timetable for ACT should be: 6:00 - 11:00 - 16:00 - 21:00 and Wagga: 7:00 - 14:00 - 21:00

At Goulburn that gives UP times of 7:30, 12:30, 14:30, 17:30 and DOWN times of 9:30, 14:30, 17:30, 19:30 which is a pretty reasonable distribution IMHO.

As for the peak 30 min peak services, by this I presume there is 1 extra train, so the 30min frequency lasts 1 hour?

If you are just using 1 extra set, then I'd suggest for the AM:
Mossy - Campbelltown - Picton - Campbelltown.  

In the PM:
Campbelltown - Picton - Campbelltown - Mossy.
The 30 min frequency at Mossy is short and by definition a bit early.  

This set probably should be run into Sydney for maintenance during the day too.

I also think you should add up the operating hours of your timetable vs the current one, because by my rough reckoning your timetable is probably barely any more costly to run, but provides a substantially better service.  If you make that point then I think you'll be more likely to get a positive reception.

BTW, do you know how many Endeavour sets are stabled at Mossy these days?  Is it 5 or 6?  (I've presumed 6, but I could be wrong on that).
  Murasaki Chief Train Controller

Location: Going sideways... in carriage DET-9216 (>ω<)
This new uniform makes them look like Jetstar employees
"victorwilson"

Oh crap! Now the luggage fees alone will kill the pensioners otherwise cheap C/Link (or NSW Train long distance) rides (japanese-style-emoticon-LOL-catgrin-eyes-clenched)
What's that old saying? Can't polish a turd?
"Highrise"

Adam and Jaime beg to differ! (japanese-style-emoticon-LOL-catgrin-eyes-clenched)
This logo makes the Waratah logo look good.
"Watson374"

Could be worse: they could've hired the illustration talents of Matt Groening. (@_@);
From what I've heard the timetables are being re-written from scratch.
"bowralcommuter"

Hopefully they improve  the counter-peaks and middle-distance runs.
I believe most intercity services would fit with Sydney trains because they essentially service dormitory suburbs of Sydney.
"tarajane"

Yeah, that's great. Those living in the Intercity areas are just napping there in between work shifts at Sydney because they couldn't or wouldn't get a house closer. Remember that the next time you travel into these regions for anything! (japanese-style-emoticon-smegged-off)* The blasphemy and the Katoomba-cutoff aside, I agree with your argument for not mashing the Middle-distance (Intercity) runs with the Long-distance. (Also, you had left out Mount Victoria, Blackheath and Medlow Bath in the Western NSW Trains pattern. I'll forgive you for forgetting Medlow Bath, though. (^o^) -yawn!)
Endevourisation (find that one spell checker!)
"djf01"

Endeavourisation(òwó)
"Smartalecky Spellchecker"
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
I'm not sure what time you've got the Wagga train leaving Wagga but for an 11:00am arrival at Sydney it's probably way too early, either 0430 or 0500.

I'd have thought the timetable for ACT should be: 6:00 - 11:00 - 16:00 - 21:00 and Wagga: 7:00 - 14:00 - 21:00

At Goulburn that gives UP times of 7:30, 12:30, 14:30, 17:30 and DOWN times of 9:30, 14:30, 17:30, 19:30 which is a pretty reasonable distribution IMHO.

As for the peak 30 min peak services, by this I presume there is 1 extra train, so the 30min frequency lasts 1 hour?

If you are just using 1 extra set, then I'd suggest for the AM:
Mossy - Campbelltown - Picton - Campbelltown.  

In the PM:
Campbelltown - Picton - Campbelltown - Mossy.
The 30 min frequency at Mossy is short and by definition a bit early.  

This set probably should be run into Sydney for maintenance during the day too.

I also think you should add up the operating hours of your timetable vs the current one, because by my rough reckoning your timetable is probably barely any more costly to run, but provides a substantially better service.  If you make that point then I think you'll be more likely to get a positive reception.

BTW, do you know how many Endeavour sets are stabled at Mossy these days?  Is it 5 or 6?  (I've presumed 6, but I could be wrong on that).
"djf01"


Wagga train departs 05:00, which isn't that early IMO.

Peak services:
5:57 depart Moss Vale, arrive Campbelltown 07:15
6:34 depart Moss Vale, arrive Campbelltown 07:42

18:00 depart Campbelltown, arrive Moss Vale 19:19
18:25 depart Campbelltown, arrive Moss Vale 19:32

Not exactly 30 minutes but I didn't name the exact arrival and departure times since we don't know when the suburban trains are running.

Correct, my proposal is to provide better service with current costs. I didn't think about Maintenance but IIRC there is a spare Endeavour at Eveleigh so that can get swapped with the Endeavour needing maintenance. There are 6 Endeavours in the current Southern Highlands timetable.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Kae, I've given my Southern timetable a bit more thought this mid-semester break.

I have cut the Goulburn stop from the overnight Melbourne servicess (CL1 and CL4); my reasoning is that a down service at 0000 and an up service at 0400 really isn't a very friendly service combination at all. I do not expect such a service to be well-used, and I've cut it so that the overnight service calls at Wagga Wagga and Albury only (as well as picking up at Campbelltown and setting down at Broadmeadows).

This is to minimise disruption to passengers who are more likely to be travelling through, or at least using the service as a red-eye to/from WGA and ABX; this gives 5 hours and 25 minutes of non-stop running between CAM and WGA, which should (among other things) allow a modicum of sleep.

Paralleling this move, I have also cut Seymour from the overnight services. Rest assured, the day service still calls at Campbelltown (u), Moss Vale (u), Goulburn (u), Coota, Junee, Wagga, Albury, Seymour (d), Broadmeadows (d) and Melbourne.

I've also looked at my XPT trailer utilisation; I have five sets that run overnight on flagships, and there are eight XAM cars. I've therefore made the decision to use two XAM cars per Melbourne XPT.

I've also cut Mittagong, Bowral and Bundanoon from the Albury service, CL 47/48. I trust bowralcommuter to rectify this with his Endeavour reshuffle.

I'm also considering switching the Tamworth day return, CL 25/26, to a reverse Armidale service, so that there is one daylight and one red-eye each way. The alternative is to run the Armidale/Moree service thrice-weekly, either parallel or staggered, in order to retain set use while running daylight both ways.

Meanwhile, I've decided to name some of my trains, just for fun.


North Coast
CL 5/6 - Brisbane XPT -> Brisbane XPT
CL 9/10 - Grafton XPT -> Holiday Coast XPT
CL 7/8 - Casino XPT -> Northern Rivers XPT
CL 11/12 - Kempsey XPT -> Mid-North Coast XPT

North Western
CL 21/22 - Armidale -> Northern Tablelands Express
CL 23/24 - Moree -> North West Express
CL 25/26 - Tamworth -> New England Express

Western
CL 31/32 - morning Dubbo XPT -> Orana XPT
CL 33/34 - afternoon Dubbo XPT -> Central West XPT
CL 35/36 - Broken Hill - Outback Explorer

Southern
CL 1/4 - overnight Melbourne XPT -> Southern Aurora OR Spirit of the Night
CL 2/3 - daylight Melbourne XPT -> Intercapital Daylight OR Spirit of the Light
CL 47/48 - Albury XPT -> Riverina XPT


...I should probably get back to my assignments now /badpokerface
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Kae, I've given my Southern timetable a bit more thought this mid-semester break.

This is to minimise disruption to passengers who are more likely to be travelling through, or at least using the service as a red-eye to/from WGA and ABX; this gives 5 hours and 25 minutes of non-stop running between CAM and WGA, which should (among other things) allow a modicum of sleep.

Paralleling this move, I have also cut Seymour from the overnight services. Rest assured, the day service still calls at Campbelltown (u), Moss Vale (u), Goulburn (u), Coota, Junee, Wagga, Albury, Seymour (d), Broadmeadows (d) and Melbourne.

I've also cut Mittagong, Bowral and Bundanoon from the Albury service, CL 47/48. I trust bowralcommuter to rectify this with his Endeavour reshuffle.
"Watson374"


I don't think this will increase sleep when people bump you as they walk to the toilet/buffet! Laughing

May I ask why Moss Vale and Goulburn are (u) on the daylight service? If your going to pick up you might as well let 10 people get off at the 2 stations IMO.

Well my Endeavour reshuffle does provide a fast journey in peak hour but whether or not you want an additional Wagga return service using the 2 spare Endeavours I'm not quite sure.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I don't think this will increase sleep when people bump you as they walk to the toilet/buffet! Laughing
"bowralcommuter"
Seat design.

May I ask why Moss Vale and Goulburn are (u) on the daylight service? If your going to pick up you might as well let 10 people get off at the 2 stations IMO.
"bowralcommuter"
Eh, okay; set down at Moss Vale and Goulburn.

I was leaning towards pushing people to the Canberra services, especially considering the first Canberra service departs Sydney Terminal immediately after the Intercapital Daylight.

Well my Endeavour reshuffle does provide a fast journey in peak hour but whether or not you want an additional Wagga return service using the 2 spare Endeavours I'm not quite sure.
"bowralcommuter"
I don't see a need for an additional Wagga service, because I already have SYD-WGA-SYD provided by the crossing MEL services, and WGA-SYD-WGA is covered by the Riverina XPT.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Seat design.

Eh, okay; set down at Moss Vale and Goulburn.

I was leaning towards pushing people to the Canberra services, especially considering the first Canberra service departs Sydney Terminal immediately after the Intercapital Daylight.

I don't see a need for an additional Wagga service, because I already have SYD-WGA-SYD provided by the crossing MEL services, and WGA-SYD-WGA is covered by the Riverina XPT.
"Watson374"


Seat design? Meaning you will change it or you think it already eliminates this problem? I've had people lose their balance towards me going around a corner a few times.

Thankyou Very Happy

So where do you want to send the spare E sets then? Or keep them for the (increasingly common) event that an Xplorer service screws up?
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Seat design? Meaning you will change it or you think it already eliminates this problem? I've had people lose their balance towards me going around a corner a few times.
"bowralcommuter"
In the premium class(es), I intend to have seats that eliminate this problem. In steerage, you're not going to sleep properly anyway, so it doesn't really matter!

So where do you want to send the spare E sets then? Or keep them for the (increasingly common) event that an Xplorer service screws up?
"bowralcommuter"
The spare N sets can either sit around spare in case another N or J set fails, or they could be used to run another service entirely.

I actually have no spare E sets, which means I crack as soon as I have an Xplorer failure. That's why I've elected to hold one spare XPT, because an XPT can go anywhere.

...or actually, convert a 2N into a 2E, and keep it spare.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
In the premium class(es), I intend to have seats that eliminate this problem. In steerage, you're not going to sleep properly anyway, so it doesn't really matter!

The spare N sets can either sit around spare in case another N or J set fails, or they could be used to run another service entirely.

I actually have no spare E sets, which means I crack as soon as I have an Xplorer failure. That's why I've elected to hold one spare XPT, because an XPT can go anywhere.

...or actually, convert a 2N into a 2E, and keep it spare.
"Watson374"


If it were me, I'd keep 1N/E spare and send the other west/north west to use as a shuttle service.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
If it were me, I'd keep 1N/E spare and send the other west/north west to use as a shuttle service.
"bowralcommuter"
How many spare Endeavours do you have?

Meanwhile, despite my satisfaction with my Southern and Western timetables, and great satisfaction with my North Coast timetable, I'm not happy with my North Western timetable, and I'm looking at ways to improve service without resorting to a fourth set I can no longer spare.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Seat design.

Eh, okay; set down at Moss Vale and Goulburn.
Watson374
I concur.

I boarded the Melb XPT @ Goulburn and the seat I took had been vacated by someone travelling SYD-GUL.   I could tell by the smell, and the fact they left their ticket behind.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I concur.

I boarded the Melb XPT @ Goulburn and the seat I took had been vacated by someone travelling SYD-GUL.   I could tell by the smell, and the fact they left their ticket behind.
"djf01"
Gotcha.

Meanwhile, I've decided to look at remodelling my New England services. Essentially, the current lineup is like this:

SYD-TMW-SYD
MRZ-SYD-MRZ
SYD-ARM overnight, ARM-SYD daylight

Obviously, the prospect of overnight Xplorers isn't especially appealing. Limiting myself to three sets, I've compromised by reducing service to once daily each way on the Main North line, retaining the same service on the Mungindi line.

This results in this:

MRZ-SYD-MRZ
SYD-ARM
ARM-SYD

The Armidale services run to the existing timetable. The set use isn't as good, but it does the job with the same number of sets and eliminates the overnight leg. Overnight services would still be possible on a seasonal basis in both directions. The timings become very pleasant for Armidale service passengers in both directions.

The timings past Narrabri still aren't great, but I don't believe them to be fatal because apart from two weekly coaches at Narrabri there are no connections on the Moree service. (The thrice-weekly Moree-Grafton coach only has Grafton-end connections.) This is unlike the Armidale service, which has connections onwards as far as Tenterfield.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Gotcha.

Meanwhile, I've decided to look at remodelling my New England services. Essentially, the current lineup is like this:

SYD-TMW-SYD
MRZ-SYD-MRZ
SYD-ARM overnight, ARM-SYD daylight

Obviously, the prospect of overnight Xplorers isn't especially appealing. Limiting myself to three sets, I've compromised by reducing service to once daily each way on the Main North line, retaining the same service on the Mungindi line.

This results in this:

MRZ-SYD-MRZ
SYD-ARM
ARM-SYD

The Armidale services run to the existing timetable. The set use isn't as good, but it does the job with the same number of sets and eliminates the overnight leg. Overnight services would still be possible on a seasonal basis in both directions. The timings become very pleasant for Armidale service passengers in both directions.

The timings past Narrabri still aren't great, but I don't believe them to be fatal because apart from two weekly coaches at Narrabri there are no connections on the Moree service. (The thrice-weekly Moree-Grafton coach only has Grafton-end connections.) This is unlike the Armidale service, which has connections onwards as far as Tenterfield.
"Watson374"


[img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8397/8692401570_77d2e5462b.jpg[/img]


[img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8117/8692401872_7941b173af.jpg[/img]
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I've had an another rethink about Sector 2 Timetabling.  Here is another plan that incorporates the main north and re-instigates used of the Suburbans and Locals east of Strathfield.  

Sector 2 is *extremely* complicated, and there are so many restrictions and dependancies.  Sequencing is everything correctly is critical.  There are 10 routes, and they all overlap one another meaning any delay on any of the 10 routes will propagate.  And I haven't even attempted to thread through a Cumberland line service, which I suspect might not even be possible.

Some noteable features:
  • The main routes are 6tph, every 10 minutes.
  • Other routes are 4tph, every 15 minutes, which means when the pattern repeats every 30 minutes.
  • Because of the mix of 15 and 10 min timetable blocks, some resulting conflicts are dealt with with +/- 1min on some routes.
  • Inner West trains run to and terminate at Parramatta (6tph, every10 minutes - with the occasional skip stop of Macdonaldtown to), and are deliberately overtaken by express main south trains.
  • All SWRL trains are ext Leppington via Granville (cross platform interchange at Glenfield), and can run ex Glenfield prior to the SWRL's commissioning
  • All Campbelltown trains are via Sydenham
  • Revesby via Airport runs as a separate line, 6tph/10min frequency as required by the contract.
  • I have 6tph on the main north (mistakenly) ex-Hornsby, which is meant to be ex-Epping.
  • There are 4 ex Liverpool Bankstown line trains, 2 via Museum, 2 via Town Hall.
  • The ex Liverpool via Bankstown then Town Hall run express and take the same time as via Granville - so PAX who turn up at Liverpool just get on the first train and will get to the city just as fast.  Via Museum is a touch slower.
  • There are 8 trains from Campbelltown, 6 ex Macarthur 2 ex Campbelltown.  2 of the Macarthur trains run express just to spread them out a bit as the 2 ex-Cambos (by necessity) end up just 1 slot behind by the time they reach the city.


(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8542/8695465028_0814352982_k.jpg)
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Here is my new Sector 3 concept for the Central Coast and North Shore:


(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8399/8694344805_385f7e906f_b.jpg)

Notable Features:
  • All Central Coast trains run via the North Shore
  • 22 tph between Chatswood and Nth Sydney - using the magic of platform bifurcation
  • 2 of the 6 peak hour interurbans terminate at (platform 2) Nth Sydney, and are run out to Lavender Bay.  In the PM it is intended these are ex platform 3 at Nth Sydney
  • 6tph or every 10 minutes on all routes/stopping patterns bar the ECL and Waiverton & Woolstoncraft which gets 4tph as now.
  • There are 2 blocks of 10min gaps at Milsons Pt without a train to a catch up to maintain a consistent 3min separation on the approach to the city
  • Stops are split on the upper north shore, cutting 8 min (IIRC) out of the run for the suburbans, and 10 for the interurbans.
  • Main North south of Epping is shifted to Sector 2.
  • There are no overtakes - the fastest way to anywhere is the first train that turns up.  


I think this takes the Nth Shore load from 19kPAX/hr peak to 22kPAX/Hr peak, spread over 22 trains (ie an average loading of 110%).  I could probably terminate ECL trains at Epping and shunt about 1kpax/hr over to Sector 2, meaning the net increase in load (2kPAX/hr) is within the increase in capacity delivered by the extra 2tph terminating at Nth Sydney.

This approach basically OSCARises all of the interurban commuter traffic and all but eliminates the need for the V sets, which is the intention.

It might not look like it, but this approach also substantially reduces the total number of interchanges at Central and to a lesser extent Town Hall.

But the main advantage of this approach is the upper main Nth (Epping - Hornsby) could be converted to single track (for CityRail) effectively creating a dedicated NSFL.  This would justify Fed funding for some of the upgrades to the Nth Shore to make this work better post the NWRL.P.S.  


Clearly there will be problems accommodating the NWRL - as there is now.  But at 24tph (perhaps 26tph if I could pull off the same tricks and terminate 2 trains at platform 3 at Nth Sydney) this approach could probably cope with the initial few years of the NWRL at least.  At very least I think this will need a dedicated turnback (in the opposite direction to the current one) at Chatswood.

*If* the NWRL were built to accommodate CityRail trains, completion of the quad to Nth Sydney - or even just Chatswood to St Leonards - would allow 30tph from Chatswood - Nth Sydney, with the 6 central coast services turned there (and 12 tph on the NWRL, 12 on the upper Nth shore, 24 across the bridge).

Regardless, I think the best upgrade we could do is the platform length on sector 3 to 200m, not just because of the increase in train capacity, but also because this would double platform size and number of entry/exit points at Wynyard, and (if done properly) double the platform entry/exit point as well as level interchange points at Town Hall.  Even at 20tph it's still enough capacity for the NWRL and (just) the Central Coast line as well.
  kypros1992 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Sydney
I've posted some of my proposed patterns for the 2013 timetable http://thirdworldsydneytransport.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/sydney-trains-stopping-patterns-my-take-for-2013-final/ http://thirdworldsydneytransport.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/nsw-trainsnsw-trainlink-intercity-patterns-for-2013-final-draft/

I've attempted to make them as realistic as possible, removing the numerous stopping patterns on the Illawarra and Western lines and returing to simpler stopping patterns used in the 1990s
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
DJF, I cannot read your timetable, could you change the format to Excel or put it on google docs if possible?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

DJF, I cannot read your timetable, could you change the format to Excel or put it on google docs if possible?
bowralcommuter

Sorry about that.  I've added links to the Flickr PNGs, and I'll get onto posting the spreadsheet somewhere soon too.

BTW, gee I wish the Railpage code cutters would stop screwing around with their textbox widget!
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I've attempted to make them as realistic as possible, removing the numerous stopping patterns on the Illawarra and Western lines and returing to simpler stopping patterns used in the 1990s
"kypros1992"
I disagree with your Illawarra timetable.

I agree with the principle of making it simpler and thus easier to follow, not least because while self-contained the Illawarra timetable, particularly in PM peak, is extremely difficult to decipher.

However, I cannot help but find your patterns unsatisfactory. I believe the current off-peak patterns work fine, apart from the non-standard implementation of the faster Cronulla service, which I believe should have a consistent pattern between Hurstville and Sutherland, rather than seemingly random limited-stops combinations - e.g. Penshurst-Mortdale-Jannali, Penshurst-Mortdale, Mortdale-Jannali, Penshurst-Jannali, Mortdale only, Jannali only, etc. etc. etc.

The current timetable, while certainly incomprehensible on the surface due to the mixing of full patterns, half patterns and special services, especially during PM peak, delivers a good mix of fast and slow services. Frequency is high enough to still permit most passengers to board the first service that calls at their station.



Interesting piece, djf01. I see the main trick here has been to apply A/B skip-stopping to allow closer pattern spacings.

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