ABC NEWS: Council ordered to turn off CCTV Cameras due to a court case

 
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

This is both transport and non-transport related. I'm mot saying it does, but this could affect any person with a camera in public.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-03/cctv-use-in-spotlight-after-ruling/4668722?section=nsw
The New South Wales Government is reviewing a decision that raises doubts about the legality of CCTV cameras installed by local councils.

Shoalhaven City Council was forced to switch off CCTV cameras in the centre of Nowra, south of Wollongong, after the NSW Administrative Decisions Tribunal ruled they breached the Privacy Act.

The tribunal was not satisfied the signage near the cameras adequately informed people about their privacy implications, and ruled the council had not shown that filming people was reasonably necessary to prevent crime.

Shoalhaven Mayor Joanna Gash says the ruling is disappointing and makes it extremely difficult for councils to help police reduce crime.

The case was brought by resident Adam Bonner, who objected to the council recording and storing footage of him.

He argued it was not the council's role to collect evidence for the purposes of prosecuting crime and used expert evidence to show crime had increased after the cameras were installed.

The tribunal agreed, and ordered the council to apologise to Mr Bonner and refrain from any conduct that continues to breach the act.

Mr Bonner says he hopes a precedent has been set.

"Councils - both Shoalhaven Council and other councils in New South Wales - have been put on notice that people do have a right to protect their privacy," Mr Bonner said.

Kiama MP Gareth Ward, who was the council's deputy mayor when the cameras were installed, says he is appalled by the decision.

"This potentially has implications right around the state of New South Wales," he said.

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  HeadShunt Chief Train Controller

This is both transport and non-transport related. I'm mot saying it does, but this could affect any person with a camera in public.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-03/cctv-use-in-spotlight-after-ruling/4668722?section=nsw
Newcastle Express
It wouldn't surprise me if the government jumped on this one before too many cameras are switched off. They love CCTV.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
If you're in a public place, in my opinion, then to bad. The only reason to object to CCTV in a public place is if you've got something to hide.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

At Fireman Dave (& others) read this: http://blogs.smh.com.au/photographers/archives/2007/02/photography_is_not_a_crime.html
PRIVACY: "A person, in our society, does not have a right not to be photographed." So stated Justice John Dowd in a 2001 case (R v Sotheren) in the NSW Supreme Court. In Australia there is no right to privacy. If you don't want to be photographed sun-baking topless on a beach then don't sun-bake topless on a beach. Oops! You did it again? You got out of a car after forgetting to don some undies and now your genitals are all over the internet? That's your problem, or one of them at least.


Outrage over CCTV privacy ruling: http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/17010211/outrage-over-cctv-privacy-ruling
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I wonder what Adam Bonner will think if he gets mugged where there was once CCTV.

To take his "right to privacy" to its most absurd conclusion, he'll want the Shopping Mall cleared before he goes there, just in case somebody sees him.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
I wonder what Adam Bonner will think if he gets mugged where there was once CCTV.
Valvegear

PRELIMINARY LIST

A name is needed for the Shadow Darwin Award, where the result is the lowering of the intelligence of the Gene Pool.

See other thread. http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11374153.htm

By comparison, the Darwin Award rewards the raising intelligence of the gene pool.

Suggestions for the new Shadow Darwin Award include:

* Bonner award
* Adam Bonner award (so as not to be confused with (and slander) Senator Neville Bonner, (Q-LP) the first aboriginal Senator)
* Bishop W__________? who famously lost a debate against pro evolutionists.
* ?___________? name of president of NSW Administrative Decisions Tribunal
* Rosemary Mathlin of RRT (The Australian 19 March) for awarding "complimentary" visa to adulterer fleeing gun-toting husband in Iraq.

BTW, Premier O'Farrell was on ABC-TV news on 4 May 2013 promising to to something about this issue.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

It states that CCTV cameras were ordered turned off. I don't see anything where the council could not use non-CCTV cameras.Laughing

If it includes non-CCTV cameras, that means technically, it effects all people in public with a camera.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
If you're in a public place, in my opinion, then to bad. The only reason to object to CCTV in a public place is if you've got something to hide.
Fireman Dave
I have to agree with Fireman Dave here. If I was given $1 for every time I appeared on a CCTV then I would be a millionaire almost over night. Maybe this idiot does have something to hide in getting them shut down.Rolling Eyes
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
A name is needed for the Shadow Darwin Award, where the result is the lowering of the intelligence of the Gene Pool.

See other thread. http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11374153.htm

By comparison, the Darwin Award rewards the raising of gene pool intelligence.

Suggestions for the new Shadow Darwin Award include:

* Bonner award
* Adam Bonner award (so as not to be confused with (and slander) Senator Neville Bonner, (Q-LP) the first aboriginal Senator)
* Bishop W__________? who famously lost a debate against pro-evolutionists.
* ?___________? name of president of NSW Administrative Decisions Tribunal if name can be found.
** For ADT see: http://www.adt.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/adt/administrative_index.html?s=1056053079
* Steve Blanks Award, of Aust Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) who supports ban on CCTV in defence of privacy. See: http://www.cla.asn.au/ .
* Rosemary Mathlin of RRT (The Australian 19 March) for awarding "complimentary" visa to adulterer fleeing gun-toting husband in Iraq.

BTW, Premier O'Farrell was on ABC-TV news promising to to something about this issue.
awsgc24

According to Wiki, the W________? is Wilberforce, and the debate was in 1861, but he's somewhat forgotten. Adam Bonner Prize is much more current.

Gunzels are invited to nominate other names,...

As to the names of the persons on  the Administrative Decisions Tribunal, just at this point of times, on searching their website, I haven't been able to find the names of the people sitting on the Tribunal; presumably, they are protected by privacy laws.

Not to forget, Steve Blanks of the Australian Civil Liberties Union, (ACLU), who supports the ban on CCTVs.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
It states that CCTV cameras were ordered turned off. I don't see anything where the council could not use non-CCTV cameras.Laughing

If it includes non-CCTV cameras, that means technically, it effects all people in public with a camera.
Newcastle Express

In German, TV are called Fernsehers, "far seers".

Maybe if we renamed CCTV as CCFS, this would get under the radar of the AAT Tribunal, who seem to be "too stupid for words".
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
If you're in a public place, in my opinion, then to bad. The only reason to object to CCTV in a public place is if you've got something to hide.
Fireman Dave

Green Senator Sarah Hanson-Young complained about not being allow to take photos at Nauru and Manus Island .... "WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO HIDE?"

Could start a whole thread with this rhetorical question.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
See http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=869293&vId=3946404&cId=Top%20Stories for Skynews item about CCTV shutdown.


FYI, Wendy Northcutt is a scientist who had a lot of spare time while waiting for her experiments to complete. So she started to gather information about stupidity, which proved sufficient for at least 5 "Darwin Award" books, there the effect is to raise the gene pool..

Adam Bonner of CCTV shutdown fame, is a candidate for naming the socalled Shadow Darwin Award, when the effect is to lower the gene pool.

See: http://www.bookworld.com.au/by/wendy-northcutt/#stock_status=InStock PreOrder
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
There seems to be a very quick bipartian reaction to overturning this stupid tribunal's stupid decision.

A bit like the Dred Scot decision.

See Skynews: http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=869293&vId=3946404&cId=Top%20Stories
  rourkster Station Master

Someone needs to post up a photo of this Adam Bonner so I can make sure that I do not look at his face if I happen to pass him on a public street. I'd hate to infringe on the poor petal's right to privacy...
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Someone needs to post up a photo of this Adam Bonner so I can make sure that I do not look at his face if I happen to pass him on a public street. I'd hate to infringe on the poor petal's right to privacy...

On the contrary, if RP decides to name the Shadow Darwin Award after Adam Bonner (probably no relation to Senator Neville Bonner), you will have a joyfully good reason to stop him in the street and congratulate him for having a Prize for Stupidity named after him.

Take your pick.

My bet is that there will be a Bipartisan law change to squash the Administrative Decisions Tribunal's stupid decision.

See above for a preliminary list of names.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
CCTV cameras do not fall under the same legislation as private individuals taking non-commercial still photographs in places to which the public normally have access.

In the latter case then there is no restraint on image capture provided that no other law prohibits that act such as the general prohibition on taking photos of which the only or primary subject is a defined Prohibited Place. When in or on private land (which includes shops and within shopping malls) the owner is permitted to assign conditions to entry; those often include a no-photography rule though it is very hard to enforce when most mobile phones are now used for relatively discreet image capture.  It is sometimes enforced rigidly and to the annoyance of families when Santa is in town and a commercial photographer is engaged to take Little Tommy / Lucy's picture with the gentleman in question.

CCTV is both overt and covert; sometimes we can see the cameras easily and sometimes not.  It is the capture of moving footage and of what ever the controller feels is appropriate.  We ourselves do not have any control over what those images are used for.  Because we have some rights and some measure of personal privacy we must be advised in a clear and reasonable manner that CCTV is (or may be) in use in any given area.  This is usually in the form of signage to that effect.

By way of comparison there is nothing to prevent me taking a random snapshot on a street which happens to include an overly-exposed body (of either sex) whether that is accidental or not.  There is everything to prevent a CCTV operator spotting a scantily-clad person and moving the cameras for a better view of them specifically.   The "victim" should have been at least able to see a warning that CCTV is operating at the entry to a surveyed area and therefore had a reasonable chance to make any adjustments to their attire they saw fit.

I believe the case against Shoalhaven Council turns on an allegation that there was either inadequate or no warning of CCTV being in use and not on its use per se.  This will not affect our normal photographic activities nor is it likely to affect the increasing use of CCTV monitoring our everyday lives once outside the home.  What it may do is to ensure that "suitable" signage is clearly defined and that operators also are subject to some sort of random and independent scrutiny.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
PRELIMINARY LIST

A name is needed for the Shadow Darwin Award, where the result is the lowering of the intelligence of the Gene Pool.

See other thread. http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11374153.htm

By comparison, the Darwin Award rewards people who by self-sacrifice raise the intelligence of the Gene Pool.

Suggestions for the new Shadow Darwin Award include:

* Bonner Award
* Adam Bonner Award (so as not to be confused with (and slander) Senator Neville Bonner, (Q-LP) the first aboriginal Senator)
* Bishop W__________? who famously lost a debate against pro evolutionists.
* ?_____Montgomery_____? name of president of NSW Administrative Decisions Tribunal
* Rosemary Mathlin of RRT (The Australian 19 March) for awarding "complimentary" visa to adulterer fleeing gun-toting husband in Iraq.

BTW, Premier O'Farrell was on ABC-TV news on 4 May 2013 promising to to something about this issue.
awsgc24

According to 2GB, the idiot member of the ADT Tribunal who squashed CCTV at Nowra is called Montgomery.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Heard just now on the radio.

Apparently the O'Farrell gummint will introduce regulations to squash the idiotic Adam Bonner/Montomery (ADT) decision to squasj CCTV in Nowra.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1480141/urgent-review-after-council-cctv-shutdown/?cs=2452

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/1482526/no-apology-as-cctv-battle-spreads-wider/?cs=298

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/1480345/blog-cctv-decision-a-blow-to-crime-fighting/?cs=304
Occasional local resident Adam Bonner brought the action in the ADT against Shoalhaven City Council claiming that the capturing of his image by the Council breaches privacy legislation on the grounds that he did not consent to his image being captured
Putting aside that Mr Bonner has had no issue posing for photographs for the local newspaper as part of media associated with his campaign, I am all too aware of Mr Bonner’s opposition; indeed, I was the Deputy Mayor of Shoalhaven City Council that pushed for and had the cameras successfully installed in the Nowra CBD.
The ADT has said that an apology to Mr Bonner is warranted in view of the invasion of his privacy. Mr Bonner has said that my name should be added to the list of those who should present an apology to him for the actions I have taken in seeing the cameras installed.

He won’t be getting one.
  Ballast_Plough Chief Commissioner

Location: Lilydale, Vic
Using the same logic, does it mean the Google cars taking all the street photos were illegal??
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Someone needs to post up a photo of this Adam Bonner so I can make sure that I do not look at his face if I happen to pass him on a public street.
rourkster
See first link in my previous post!
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Using the same logic, does it mean the Google cars taking all the street photos were illegal??
Ballast_Plough

Not necessarily illegal, but not good either, which is why they now blank out the faces of people in the shots and the same with motor vehicle license plates.

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