There was an "Online Consultation" on the V-Line website today regarding the Gippsland line. Check the question by Peter at 12:32 and Acting CEO Ross Pedley's response a few minutes later. Apparently this section of track can rust overnight!!!

http://www.vline.com.au/journey/onboard/consultations.html

It all just smells of  Pollies getting caught out in lies.

Given half an opportunity there would undoubtedly be a few very pro road ( short sighted bustards )  pollies whod shut down and pull  up the Bairnsdale line. Look how quickly theymoved to enure the Gatha line stayed shut !!

The only way these days to fight it is to use social media and firstly OUT these rotters and then shame them into either resignation or turning turtle and doing what they should be doing ini the first place; listening to their constituents !!

Ironic as another pointed out, easiest way to keep rust off rails.....run trains.   It astounds me some of the crup these vline buffoons and pollies trot out to try to prop up their decisions.

time for people to take them to task... make their life hell...  Seems only fair.

It all just smells of  Pollies getting caught out in lies.

Given half an opportunity there would undoubtedly be a few very pro road ( short sighted bustards )  pollies whod shut down and pull  up the Bairnsdale line. Look how quickly theymoved to enure the Gatha line stayed shut !!

The only way these days to fight it is to use social media and firstly OUT these rotters and then shame them into either resignation or turning turtle and doing what they should be doing ini the first place; listening to their constituents !!

Ironic as another pointed out, easiest way to keep rust off rails.....run trains.   It astounds me some of the crup these vline buffoons and pollies trot out to try to prop up their decisions.

time for people to take them to task... make their life hell...  Seems only fair.

I only found out about the online discussion this morning. I'd have asked a question or two had I realised in time.

Rust overnight? The rails were still shiny silver several weeks after trains ceased running.

Maybe vline could try and buy a secondhand rail grinder such as these below

http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/classified.php?id=2785 (This is the better unit)

OR

http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/classified.php?id=2790

As Vline doesn't have much money to buy this type of equipment brand new and they only need it for 30 days why not consider some older equipment that might be cheap and do the job.

As an alternative if they are really desperate they could allways use these portable rail grinders produced by a company in NSW.

http://melvelle.com.au/equipment-catalog/rail-catalogue/rail-grinder/rail-grinder/
http://melvelle.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Page17.pdf

careful now...thats thinking outside of the box. But in reality your addressing the physical problem. The powers that be arent really interested in that they only want continuancies that provide ammunition for their particular stances.

Now maybe an enterprising gambler might bet that grinder himself and contract to do the work for Vline  and anyone else who needs such limited works done.

Im not sure how much effort though is required to re-gauge the Fairmont to our requirements.

interesting idea though

careful now...thats thinking outside of the box. But in reality your addressing the physical problem. The powers that be arent really interested in that they only want continuancies that provide ammunition for their particular stances.

Now maybe an enterprising gambler might bet that grinder himself and contract to do the work for Vline  and anyone else who needs such limited works done.

Im not sure how much effort though is required to re-gauge the Fairmont to our requirements.

interesting idea though

From the look of it the Fairmont was designed for SG use and it would require a major rebuild to regauge it for 5ft 3in, it would take a bit more than a cut and spread job and new wheel sets.

Rust overnight? The rails were still shiny silver several weeks after trains ceased running.

Drove over the crossing on Rosedale-Longford road yesterday. Looked like a train hasn't run there for years.

It's been wet.  Rails will have gathered surface rust quickly and weeds grown in the formation.  I was over that crossing myself only a few weeks back and it looked used to my eyes but could easily have passed for disused among those not aware of rail services.

As below could it be the N class themselves that have created the profile issue?
Maybe if the now standby A class have different wheel profiles they could be tried?
http://users.vic.chariot.net.au/~ser567/victorian_n_class.html

"A major problem that has plagued the class is rough riding, this being caused through bogie slap or `hunting', which is where the bogie moves from side to side creating severe riding of the car body.  The Co-Co 'High Ad' bogies, which are bolster mounted, have never been changed from the original. After a lot of work by the Victorian Cab Committee and maintenance staff it was found that altering the wheel profile from the original 1:20 to 1:40 overcame the hunting problem to a large degree. With the original D43 traction motors being replaced on some of the class by the heavier D77, another problem arose: the wheels now wore down at a much faster rate necessitating wheel re-profiling to be carried out a lot sooner than was planned. Wheel profiling is performed on the wheel lathe at Newport Workshops approximately every two years. At present, only 13 of the 25 class members are presently equipped with the D77 Traction Motors, the remainder still having the original D43 motors".

Problems with the A-class being used:

Now considered non-standard;
Old and less reliable than the N-class;
Only four available and three required for service daily - insufficient maintentance cover;
Powervan required in the consist adding significantly to weight and affecting potential timekeeping;
Separate "Bairnsdale sets" required with those powervans losing operational flexibility or requiring awkward shunts at Southern Cross

Apparently $8m is to be spent to carry out the axle-counter 'solution' to this line.

Does anyone have a rough estimate on the cost of re-railing instead? Could there have been a fair-dinkum opportunity to convert Traralgon -Bairnsdale, or at least Sale, to Class 2 but keep the old crossing technology? Or, just re-railing the crossings and approaches themselves?

If the difference was just a few million dollars, I just wonder if an opportunity to improve services noticeable to the passenger has gone begging.

And perhaps time to look at the Stratford rail bridge...

Apparently $8m is to be spent to carry out the axle-counter 'solution' to this line.

Does anyone have a rough estimate on the cost of re-railing instead? Could there have been a fair-dinkum opportunity to convert Traralgon -Bairnsdale, or at least Sale, to Class 2 but keep the old crossing technology? Or, just re-railing the crossings and approaches themselves?

If the difference was just a few million dollars, I just wonder if an opportunity to improve services noticeable to the passenger has gone begging.

Cost of 60kg rail is around 40 to 50 dollars per metre in large quantities (it appears to be sold by the ton). You could at least double that cost to install it. Its likely the initial cost of lighter rail would be proportional to the weight.

Note, the engineering and managment of VLine are not stupid, they are though at the whim of politicians who from outward appearences would have difficulty running a one hole toilet at the "G" on grand final day.

woodford

And perhaps time to look at the Stratford rail bridge...

just out of curiosity...If the rial height was say  200mm above its current , would that solve the clearance problems ?

just out of curiosity...If the rial height was say  200mm above its current , would that solve the clearance problems ?

height of the rail is not the issue at stratford, but the sides of the bridge deck, and the fact its curved. you could i guess solve the curvature issue and stop railcars hitting the sides by raising the track to the same height as the sides. whole different can of worms then.

Best solution is full replacement of the bridge, and some alignment improvements, at probably $100m+. something that's not going to happen any time soon.

Im not sure I follow that any other can of worms is opened by raising the rail height. My ( given understanding  ) appreciation of the problem is that the girders are too close for comfort.  Rebuilding the deck from a ballasted through girder to a heightened girder through deck i would have thought would solve that. I would think its the cheapest of all solutions. . There is no great loss to keep a relative speed limit on the bridge if it allows traffic to use it at the least impact  to the hip pocket. This is never going to be a high speed line.

Ive heard nothing to the effect that the bridge is about to fall down, i.e its still realtively sound , its just too cozy !!.   Whilst not necessarily aesthetically beautiful you can solve the then problem of mismatched heights  from bridge to the approach trestles in much the same way a 'trainset' would.. that is you taper the additional inserts to gradul;ly return to the pre-exisitng grade.

Some might think well you might as well replace the whole bridge, but why.. most of it is fine

I'll be there with a camera when they're grinding away.

I've never seen a rail grinder in operation.

If it's one crossing a day, there will be plenty of time to catch the action in Aug/Sep.

What would they have done in 1947? Gates for some crossings and nothing at the others. Nowadays it all seems too hard.

Someone suggested flagmen for the duration, I watched a flagman at a shunting operation at Cunningham Wharf, many cars ignored the held out flag (and the approaching F-class).

Ive heard nothing to the effect that the bridge is about to fall down, i.e its still realtively sound , its just too cozy !!.   Whilst not necessarily aesthetically beautiful you can solve the then problem of mismatched heights  from bridge to the approach trestles in much the same way a 'trainset' would.. that is you taper the additional inserts to gradul;ly return to the pre-exisitng grade.

Some might think well you might as well replace the whole bridge, but why.. most of it is fine

Out of curiosity - I once heard that this bridge has a totally unsupported section - that is to say, a separate section of the bridge that is not supported by pylons itself, but bolted to sections either side that are. Hope that makes sense! Am I right?

Out of curiosity - I once heard that this bridge has a totally unsupported section - that is to say, a separate section of the bridge that is not supported by pylons itself, but bolted to sections either side that are. Hope that makes sense! Am I right?

Yes there Is an odd looking Iron section In this bridge.
Design error, ordering error ?

But If the miss match of the Iron girder and the pier were of concern an axillary pier would of been added long ago.

height of the rail is not the issue at stratford, but the sides of the bridge deck, and the fact its curved. you could i guess solve the curvature issue and stop railcars hitting the sides by raising the track to the same height as the sides. whole different can of worms then.

Best solution is full replacement of the bridge, and some alignment improvements, at probably $100m+. something that's not going to happen any time soon.

Yes, with a quite severe speed restriction as well as an old trestle beforehand to boot.

New Rail does not have the correct profile on it and would need grinding anyway.

Out of curiosity - I once heard that this bridge has a totally unsupported section - that is to say, a separate section of the bridge that is not supported by pylons itself, but bolted to sections either side that are. Hope that makes sense! Am I right?

Yes, that's correct. Photo below showing the suspended span on the Avon River bridge. The odd part is that this is on the curved section of the bridge.




The only explanation I can think of is that perhaps the piers here could not be placed closer - lack of suitable foundation maybe. And a straight span between them would be too long for the required curve. Mind you, a wider span would've accommodated the curve.  

Here's a photo take from the official return train in 2004 - back when one could still open the doors on a moving N set.

Note the tight clearance. That's the suspended span between the first and second carriages.

Hey just saw this in the Latrobe valley express anyone interested in snapping some shots of the 'EM100' better find a way down to the gippsland in-between Traralgon to Bairnsdale very vsoon to this machine in action

http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/story/1528769/track-inspection-set/?cs=1210

See Ya

Mark

Wonder if it would be possible and what the cost would be, to fit out trains and crossings with the same techonlogy that is allowing trams and police cars to activate traffic lights. This system dosent just have to be for the Bairnsdale line, but could be on every level crossing, giving 2 methods of activation, which should be far safer than 1.
If successful, it should help the trains on the Bairndale line get back up and running the next time the trains do not run for a week.

Wonder if it would be possible and what the cost would be, to fit out trains and crossings with the same techonlogy that is allowing trams and police cars to activate traffic lights. This system dosent just have to be for the Bairnsdale line, but could be on every level crossing, giving 2 methods of activation, which should be far safer than 1.
If successful, it should help the trains on the Bairndale line get back up and running the next time the trains do not run for a week.

Well, considering they are going to install Axle Counters as a permanent solution, it seems your suggestion is largely unnecessary.