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Tilt Train

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      Showtime Chief Train Controller

    I picked up some old railway magazines at a swap meet and in a couple of them they showed images of the Tilt Train from overseas that was trialled in NSW quite a few years ago.
    In each image the train was shown being towed by an XPT power car despite appearing to have it's own power car.
    Can someone please tell me why it needed the XPT non tilting power car to drive it?
    Posted: 20 May 2013 16:53

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      s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

    Location: Western Sydney, AU
    I would hazard a guess that it was a Driving Trailer, not a motor car you were seeing.
    Posted: 20 May 2013 17:00
      Watson374 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
    It needed an XPT power car to haul it because the foreign tilting train in question, the X2, is an electric train designed for a different overhead system than used in NSW. In order to go anywhere, not just beyond the limits of metropolitan electric network, it needed alternative power, hence the use of XPT power cars.

    The cab car that was apparently a power car was indeed a driving trailer; the X2 is configured such that it has an electric locomotive at one end and a driving trailer at the other.
    Posted: 20 May 2013 18:34
      Jim K Train Controller

    Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
    The X2000 was an AC power car. You will note there is a cover over the back of the power car where the pantos are normally located
    The XP2000 and XP2009 provided power and had an additional 6 cylinder gen sets installed to run the X2000 and the other cars.
    Posted: 20 May 2013 20:26

    Last edited by Jim K on 20 May 2013 20:28; edited 1 time in total
      HMC1989 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Behind a desk.
    My name got pulled out of a ballot box to have a ride on it. IIRC we went to Moss Vale. Got some photos hiding in the house somewhere.
    Posted: 21 May 2013 20:47
      Tsubame800 Chief Commissioner

    The X2000 was an AC power car. You will note there is a cover over the back of the power car where the pantos are normally located
    The XP2000 and XP2009 provided power and had an additional 6 cylinder gen sets installed to run the X2000 and the other cars.
    Jim, Actually the X2000 config had Pantograph's located on the Power car only. I think the covered location you are thinking of is the A/C pod You can see the A/C pods on the cars in this shot

    Edit *Photo put in*
    Credit to David Johnson
    Posted: 22 May 2013 16:04

    Last edited by Tsubame800 on 22 May 2013 16:08; edited 2 times in total
      Gaz170 Junior Train Controller

    Location: Gold Coast
    Best mate was working in Queanbeyan at the time, good excuse to ride the tilt train one way for a weekend visit.

    Recollections, Tilt train was quicker than xplorer, but the following helped.
    1. All crossings manned for tilt train, xplorer drivers had to do crossing duties themselves.
    2. Less stops for tilt train between Canberra and Sydney, compared to xplorer.
    3. Tilt train ran via East hills, saving time not going via Lidcombe.

    Thus, the quicker trip was not all about the tilt, but some clever scheduling as well.
    Posted: 22 May 2013 20:49
      BDA Chief Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    And the tilting speed boards . Stupid how much money was blown to run that thing around out here . It was set up as a static display at Sutherland and it was interesting hearing the buffoons spraying about three hour trips to Melbourne . They looked sheepish and stupid when I set the audience straight . All I said was had they seen the southern line before and they looked uncertainly at me . I asked them what they thought about racing around 65 km/h bends at 150 and if the cars could tilt 90 degrees .
    I'm not sure if any of you can remember how the concrete platform at Taree was cut back several inches along its entire length and the edge replaced after two runs of the tilted train . So much money and disruption for a failed political junket .
    Can't remember if they wheeled nifty Nev out for that one .
    Posted: 22 May 2013 23:13
      cootanee Chief Commissioner

    Location: North of the border!
    ... So much money and disruption for a failed political junket .
    Can't remember if they wheeled nifty Nev out for that one .
    BDA
    Agree it was a waste of money - simply a PR stunt by the do nothing lot Rolling Eyes

    Maybe they'll do it again New South Wales considers tilt trains http://www.warrentruss.com/release.php?id=1928
    Surprised  Now why would the Libs invite an Labor ex-Premier to the show Laughing
    Posted: 23 May 2013 07:35
      Junction box Chief Commissioner

    Location: newy
    It was nearly out of guage, I remember them cutting the edge  off a few platforms for the trials.
    Posted: 23 May 2013 08:54
      Tsubame800 Chief Commissioner

    In regards to profiles (i.e. Platforms, and Infrastructure) Does anyone remember the Echinda?

    Thanks again to David Johnson (the Trainman)

    Posted: 23 May 2013 11:18
      cootanee Chief Commissioner

    Location: North of the border!
    Just trying to put a correct time frame in, Neville Wran suddenly resigned as Premier in about 1986. Barry Unsworth took over as Premier until defeated at the March 1988 state election. The XPT power car is in what looks like the "Countrylink" livery which was introduced after the state political careers of both Wran and Unsworth were over. So when was the tilt train experiment?
    3l diesel

    1995 - John Fahey and LNP put the show on (sorry BDA not Nev or Labor to spew over - this time)

    Found this http://www.trainman.id.au/photos/nsw/tilt/
    Posted: 23 May 2013 13:24
      Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

    Location: Banned
    1995 - John Fahey and LNP put the show on (sorry BDA not Nev or Labor to spew over - this time)

    Found this http//www.trainman.id.au/photos/nsw/tilt/
    "cootanee"


    At Parkes it had to be Stabled and shown off in the Loop road with stairs and walkways put in place from the platform to the loop for people to see it thus for one whole day we lost the use of most of the yard for normal operations just for the sake of a piece of junk that would never be seen again at Parkes.

    PS when a XP class unit is running light engine it is considered a loco and must be 2 man crewed this happened whilst the tilt was at Parkes and one XP failed at Lithgow and had to come out later L/E.
    Posted: 23 May 2013 13:32
      petan Chief Commissioner

    Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
    When the tilt train was at Murwillumbah for the political show and tell 10 March 1995, it arrived with XP 2000 on the northern end and the Swedish driving cab on the Sydney end so it needed a power unit to be added for the return to Casino. The Murwillumbah turntable was out of use so they could not use that to turn XP2000.


    The problem was solved when 8214 arrived in town towing XP 2009 with its cab facing south so problem solved.  Well, not quite all problems solved as the couplers were the next problem. The Swedish cab’s coupler socket was hiding behind a nose cone so that had to be removed. Next problem was coupler height as the Swedish coupler was higher than the XPT coupler. Once XP 2009 was uncoupled from 8214 we could see an extra coupler suspended from a hoist hanging from the interconnector doorway at the rear of XP2009. That extra coupler turned out to be a height adapter coupler as well.


    Once all the bits were inserted into the correct sockets so the Australian power car could be coupled to the Swedish driving cab, the train departed for Casino and the rest of its tour in Brisbane the next morning.


    A description of these Murwillumbah tilt train activities plus pictures of the adaptor coupler installation can be found in the Australian Model Railway Association’s Journal #225 March April 1995 P.35 - 37. The article is titled Dance of the Couplers.
    Posted: 23 May 2013 16:01
      cootanee Chief Commissioner

    Location: North of the border!
    1995 - John Fahey and LNP put the show on (sorry BDA not Nev or Labor to spew over - this time)

    Found this http://www.trainman.id.au/photos/nsw/tilt/
    cootanee

    It should also be noted that imported Tilt Train visits do not win you an election...

    The LNP were deposed that same year with Labor / Bob Carr getting the nod.
    Posted: 23 May 2013 16:13
      Speedbird1 Locomotive Fireman

    Location: Wyee
    Maybe we need APT style train...
    Posted: 30 May 2013 10:07
      BDA Chief Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    Jump back , an XP power car "reverts" to a locomotive whenst uncoupled from its worm ? AND requires a second crew member ? How could this possibly be when legislation was ramed through over "single man crewing on XPTs" ? Hmm , maybe XPTs are driver only but not single man crewed trains . Hmm - interesting . Not safe on its own yet quite safe with a train load of people and their lives resting in the hands of one human . DOO ? Yeah right .
    Posted: 30 May 2013 19:19
      EMD-ACe Station Master

    Location: Australia
    The Swedish X2000 has a locomotive and five passenger cars (including a driving trailer).  The piece of X2000 that was trialled in Australia was a driver trailer, passenger/sitting car and buffet/sitting car.
    Posted: 01 Jun 2013 22:28
      Roadmaster Locomotive Driver

    1995 - John Fahey and LNP put the show on (sorry BDA not Nev or Labor to spew over - this time)

    Found this http://www.trainman.id.au/photos/nsw/tilt/
    cootanee
    And then Transport Minister Bruce Baird (Liberal) (and father of current Treasurer Mike Baird) was the main proponent of the Tilt Train. He had travelled on it in Sweden and was so impressed he brought it to NSW for the 'trial'.

    From memory the Sydney - Canberra time was reduced to about 3 1/2 hours (due to measures explained previously in this thread).

    I have travelled on the tilt train in Sweden, where it travels at up to 160 km/h on alignments not unlike those found in NSW. The Swedes have done a good job in engineering 'faster' trains without actually having any high speed rail.
    Posted: 02 Jun 2013 11:21
      BDA Chief Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    You get their perway people to take a look at our infrastructure and they can tell you exactly why its not a goer here . Get them to tell you the resources needed to build and maintain a railway to their standards and make the facts known .
    Posted: 02 Jun 2013 21:39
      Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

    Location: In a BAM
    One reason it wasn't the best idea was because the distance between curves was too short, thus causing the tilt to be opposite the way it needed to be for the next curve when it started, it took too long in terms of distance to become vertical again after each tilt. This caused some discontent for passengers and staff who were walking through the train as it was jerking from tilt to tilt. And Qbn station has quite a few bricks missing on the up-end of the platform due to this problem.
    Posted: 03 Jun 2013 00:08

    Last edited by Jajb94 on 03 Jun 2013 00:09; edited 1 time in total

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