Echuca Line Crossing Upgrades

 
  woodford Chief Commissioner

It looks like all the level crossings that are going to have warning signals and boom gates  are done north of the midland hwy at Bagshot. There are two paddock access crossings remaining just with signs and two more are to be closed.

Woodford

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  Duncs Chief Commissioner

It sounds like we are nearly there
  woodford Chief Commissioner

It sounds like we are nearly there
Duncs
I think there all done now the ones they were going to do anyway, there were only two not done. Heywood st 166.618 km and Bagshot Wakermon rd km 176.631. Heywood st is done according to Railway digest and it looks like they are not going to do the Bagshot Wakermon rd crossing. They have recently cleaned up the drainage around this crossing and there is no sign at all of any installation work amongst the cleanup earth works.

woodford
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I think there all done now the ones they were going to do anyway, there were only two not done. Heywood st 166.618 km and Bagshot Wakermon rd km 176.631. Heywood st is done according to Railway digest and it looks like they are not going to do the Bagshot Wakermon rd crossing. They have recently cleaned up the drainage around this crossing and there is no sign at all of any installation work amongst the cleanup earth works.

woodford
woodford
Hi Woodford

Are as you are aware, are these last two crossings on a slower section of the line? I ask this because the original purpose of all the crossing upgrades was to allow V locity trains to exceed 80kph on the line. With a top speed of 100+ kph.

Duncs
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Hi Woodford

Are as you are aware, are these last two crossings on a slower section of the line? I ask this because the original purpose of all the crossing upgrades was to allow V locity trains to exceed 80kph on the line. With a top speed of 100+ kph.

Duncs
Duncs

There in a reality would no physical limits to speed on the Bendigo Echuce line (other than below standard track), the line having no real hillls or sharp curves.

There are 3 level crossings not done, two of these are paddock access crossings, ie there are only provide access to a gate/or gates for farmers to access paddocks. The 3rd is a crossing it would be the next one south of the Midland hwy crossing at Bagshot, its position  is -36.665424 144.371295 (lat and long) this is a little used road (the main access for it being from the east), it may be being done but when I checked a week or so back there had been a lot of clean up and drainage earthworks but no crossing works at all. All other crossings have been prepared long in advance.
Paddock access crossings have almost never been provided with warning systems other than signs.

I am unsure of the 80kph limit on crossings, the Shepparton service does 100kph over plenty of unsignaled crossings. The Albury line north of Seymour has it least 6 unsignaled crossings with a speed limit on them of 120kph. While the latter is ARTC terriitory, the railways are the states responsibility and the states in the end make the rules.

As far as I am aware the current 80kph limit on the pass services is there because that is the speed limit imposed by the class of the track. All signalled level crossings cannot be requirement for a class 2 track as the Albury line was a VLine class 2 track and it had plenty of unsignaled crossings on it.

I did ask some time back for someone to produce evidence other than hearsay on the 80kph limit on level crossings but no one came forward.

I am not trying to start a fight, "some one said" particularly coming from an unknown source  is not a never will be something one can stake your life on ............................
Although plenty of people appear to do so.....................


woodford
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The 75kmh speed for DRC between Bendigo and Echuca is self imposed by V/Line after detailed risk asessment following a collision between a V/Locity and a truck carrying a slab of bluestone at Trawalla some years ago in which there were several fatalities.  Until such time as current lx upgrades are complete the 75kmh remains.  Some years ago the line was CWR and relaid with reclaimed 94lb rail between Rochester and Echuca. As such the upgarde was designed to allow DMU at 100kmh .

The crossings remaining to be done supposedely by 30/06/13 were :

Holdsworth Road, North Bendigo  to be BB
Nelson St, California Gully to be BB
Prouses Rd, Bendigo North
Elmore - Minto Rd, Elmore to be BB

Once the lx program covering 13 crossings is complete line speed for DMU will be increased to at least 100kmh . It is understood that the circuitry has been set up to allow for ultimately a maximum speed for DMU of 115kmh .
  woodford Chief Commissioner

The 75kmh speed for DRC between Bendigo and Echuca is self imposed by V/Line after detailed risk asessment following a collision between a V/Locity and a truck carrying a slab of bluestone at Trawalla some years ago in which there were several fatalities.  Until such time as current lx upgrades are complete the 75kmh remains.  Some years ago the line was CWR and relaid with reclaimed 94lb rail between Rochester and Echuca. As such the upgarde was designed to allow DMU at 100kmh .

The crossings remaining to be done supposedely by 30/06/13 were :

Holdsworth Road, North Bendigo  to be BB
Nelson St, California Gully to be BB
Prouses Rd, Bendigo North
Elmore - Minto Rd, Elmore to be BB

Once the lx program covering 13 crossings is complete line speed for DMU will be increased to at least 100kmh . It is understood that the circuitry has been set up to allow for ultimately a maximum speed for DMU of 115kmh .
kuldalai

Thank you for the information.

The Elmore Minto rd has been done.

Nelson st appears to be on the Swan hill line

Do you have the distances for the other two, the names VLine know them as are not readily found actually on the ground. Anyway all the crossings in the Bendigo area except Heywood st on the Echuca line were lights and bells only.

Note, so is the crossing in Elmore and the two in Rochester.

woodford
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

The 75kmh speed for DRC between Bendigo and Echuca is self imposed by V/Line after detailed risk asessment following a collision between a V/Locity and a truck carrying a slab of bluestone at Trawalla some years ago in which there were several fatalities.  Until such time as current lx upgrades are complete the 75kmh remains.  Some years ago the line was CWR and relaid with reclaimed 94lb rail between Rochester and Echuca. As such the upgarde was designed to allow DMU at 100kmh .

The crossings remaining to be done supposedely by 30/06/13 were :

Holdsworth Road, North Bendigo  to be BB
Nelson St, California Gully to be BB
Prouses Rd, Bendigo North
Elmore - Minto Rd, Elmore to be BB

Once the lx program covering 13 crossings is complete line speed for DMU will be increased to at least 100kmh . It is understood that the circuitry has been set up to allow for ultimately a maximum speed for DMU of 115kmh .
kuldalai
Regarding the speed of 115 kph, I am curious  how this figure was arrived at.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

1. A permissible speed of 115kmh for DMU on a Class-3 track is arrived at in that the DMU speed allowed is usually 15 kmh higher than the applicable loco hauled speed, account the lighter axle load of the DMU .

With Class-2 track it is cut and dried  115kmh for loco hauled and  130 kmh for DMU  (lx protection and signal sighting allowing.)

With Class-3 it is a bit more spongy .  Like Traralgon - Sale allows 100kmh LH, but only still 100kmh for DMU account lx etc .
Mangalore - Shepparton allows 95/100kmh for LH and no DMU .
Echuca - Bendigo CWR 9lb rail will allow DMU at least 100kmh and possibly up to 115kmh depending on line and top, sleeper condition etc .
In any case 100kmh is a hell of an improvement over the pathetic 75 kmh . IIRC elsewhere the trackcircuits have been set up to allow for a future max line speed of 115kmh .  

2.  List of crossings to be upgraded to bb as part of Echuca project in PR was :

2011/12  Ironstone Road, Epsom ; Burnewang Rd North, Rochester; Moore Rd/Siphon Rd, Rochester; Lucas Rd/Graham Rd , Nanneela; Starthellan Rd , Strathallan; Anderson Rd, Strathallan.
2012/13  Barnamans Rd/ Wakeman Rd, Huntly; Reily Rd, Bagshot; Whirakee Rd, Bagshot (Pitsons Rd, Bagshot); Goornong - May Reef Rd, Goornong; Avonmore - May Reef Rd, Avonmore; Elmore - Minto Rd, Elmore; Mc Cormicks Rd, Elmore .
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

1. A permissible speed of 115kmh for DMU on a Class-3 track is arrived at in that the DMU speed allowed is usually 15 kmh higher than the applicable loco hauled speed, account the lighter axle load of the DMU .

With Class-2 track it is cut and dried  115kmh for loco hauled and  130 kmh for DMU  (lx protection and signal sighting allowing.)

With Class-3 it is a bit more spongy .  Like Traralgon - Sale allows 100kmh LH, but only still 100kmh for DMU account lx etc .
Mangalore - Shepparton allows 95/100kmh for LH and no DMU .
Echuca - Bendigo CWR 9lb rail will allow DMU at least 100kmh and possibly up to 115kmh depending on line and top, sleeper condition etc .
In any case 100kmh is a hell of an improvement over the pathetic 75 kmh . IIRC elsewhere the trackcircuits have been set up to allow for a future max line speed of 115kmh .  

2.  List of crossings to be upgraded to bb as part of Echuca project in PR was :

2011/12  Ironstone Road, Epsom ; Burnewang Rd North, Rochester; Moore Rd/Siphon Rd, Rochester; Lucas Rd/Graham Rd , Nanneela; Starthellan Rd , Strathallan; Anderson Rd, Strathallan.
2012/13  Barnamans Rd/ Wakeman Rd, Huntly; Reily Rd, Bagshot; Whirakee Rd, Bagshot (Pitsons Rd, Bagshot); Goornong - May Reef Rd, Goornong; Avonmore - May Reef Rd, Avonmore; Elmore - Minto Rd, Elmore; Mc Cormicks Rd, Elmore .
kuldalai
Kuldalai

Many thanks for clearing all that up

Duncs
  Carnot Minister for Railways

So when will this line be able to run passenger trains at 100 km/h?  It's been more than 2 years since the announcement in November 2011.... Rolling Eyes
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

So when will this line be able to run passenger trains at 100 km/h? It's been more than 2 years since the announcement in November 2011.... Rolling Eyes
Carnot

The useless Opposition Transport Spokesperson should have been pestering Mulder in Parliament as to why speed has not gone up, when project was supposed to be finished by June 2013 .  

How difficult is it for the Opposition to Monitor the Ministers Media Releases and then follow up as to whether what is announced is in fact completed by the previously announced dates .
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
The useless Opposition Transport Spokesperson should have been pestering Mulder in Parliament as to why speed has not gone up, when project was supposed to be finished by June 2013 .

How difficult is it for the Opposition to Monitor the Ministers Media Releases and then follow up as to whether what is announced is in fact completed by the previously announced dates .
kuldalai


You assume they care.
  ab123 Chief Train Controller

Before Christmas there was not very many crossings left to be done, the Midland Hwy was not finished and another I cannot remember was just about completed.
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

It's just signage upgrades that need to be done correct?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

The level crossing next one south of the Midland hwy Bagshot is finally being done. This crossing is at km 176.631 and according to Vicsig the road is known as Bannarmans rd (the road has no sign post) Note 1. The hardware has been fitted and it appears to have been cabled but the cables have not yet been terminated. Next to the crossing on the East side of the line a small building size around 3x4 metres with a large solar array on top has been installed. This would appear to be far to large to be a power source for the level crossing so its use is something of a mystery.

In a previous post I said two roads are being closed, one of these opposite the Murchison rd has had the signage and crossing retained but has had a fence and a large steel gate fitted. The gate is currently latched open but it appears to have a road closed sign on the gate. So it appears its being retained but as limited use.

There are a number of paddock access lvl crossings these appear not having electrical warning systems fitted so we now appear to be nearly at the end of the road as the Bannarman's rd was the last crossing to be done.

Note 1, The road names given on Vicsig do not always match the names given on the road signs.

woodford
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The Weekly Nuisance has advised of a couple of  Frangible Gate Crossings on the Echuca line.  These have gates across farm access crossings.  Before taking farm machinery or other specified objects across the line, the user is required to phone Train Control.  TC advises if and what rail traffic is around.  The instructions for use of these crossings is complicated, and the advice given by TC is just that, advice and not authority or approval to cross the line.

Hopefully  the Echuca DMU will soon be running at 100kmh with reduced travel times.

This long drawn out  BLUE HILLS  project of VLP should have been driven with more gusto by both VLP Management and the Minister.  




























p has dragged on for too long
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

It looks like all the level crossings that are going to have warning signals and boom gates are done north of the midland hwy at Bagshot. There are two paddock access crossings remaining just with signs and two more are to be closed.

Woodford
woodford

So what will happen to those two paddock crossings?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

So what will happen to those two paddock crossings?
Duncs


Do not know, there's a good chance they will be left as is as they are accessed so infrequently. The one just north of the Midland hwy looks as if its only accessed once in a blue moon. The other from memory gives access to a number of paddocks likely to grow grain so will be accessed a number of times a year so they may be fitting a gate. Such paddock access crossing exist on the albury line they are only signed with an 120kph speed limit.

woodford
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
once this project s complete are there plans to continue level crossing upgrades in regional victoria?

how many new services (if any) will be added to the timetable for echuca?
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
how many new services (if any) will be added to the timetable for echuca?
JimYarin


None to Echuca.

By the end of this year there will be one extra per day to Epsom though.  http://ptv.vic.gov.au/projects/railway-stations/epsom-and-eaglehawk-rail-improvements/
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Latest announcement on Epsom Train Station:
http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2220278/epsom-railway-on-track/

So only 4 services per day?  If I'm not mistaken that's just the current Echuca services (approx. 8:25am Up, 5:30pm Down)  + an extra service (to Echuca as well?) in the afternoon?

Funny how it looks like taking the exact the length of the current term of government to promise, plan, tender, and build it!

I'm also guessing they'll be no timetable changes and speeding up of the current Echuca services to 100 km/h until after Epsom is built.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

How ridiculous spending $ 9m for 65 pax per day and 4 trains .

Originally the idea was to build the new station at Epsom and have alternate Bendigo services originate/terminate at Eaglehawk and Epsom . However that seems to have died a natural and now we have this "Mickey Mouse" 4 trains a day plan.

Talk about a "Claytons" train service !!! Four trains a day will be one Up Bendigo am Commuter service starting from Epsom in the morning, and one Down PM Bendigo Commuter service being extended through there at night, plus the existing 2 Echuca trips equals 4 trains . Absolutely pathetic and what a waste of $ 9m .

Alternatively this $ 9m could have been used to make the existing short crossing loop at Castlemaine into a decent usable length of double track . That way all Bendigo, Swan Hill & Echuca passengers would have benefitted from more reliable timekeeping .

The lx upgrade program is finally expected to be completed by 30/06/14, one year late on the Ministers announced plan .
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Kuldalai, you appear to have lost your normal measured demeanour.

I don't have a huge interest in the Bendigo services however whilst the original plan was to have alternate services operating between Epsom & Eaglehawk, it's not a waste of money to spend $9 million on a station with growing patronage at Epsom.

You know as well as I do that train timetables are always a work in progress and even though the initial services may seem scant, it's inevitable the service frequency will increase.

Politically speaking, Bendigo electorates, likes Ballarat's are marginal and the Napthine government is pulling out all stops to try, albeit most likely unsuccessfully to make some inroads on those seats, there's probably a fair chance of another announcement to extend the 'bang for buck' factor between now and November.

Mike.
  712M Chief Commissioner

Will Myki be valid to Epsom?

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