Oaklands Park Rail Overpass Project Planning

 
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
The first bus is missing it's doors on the right hand side, the two behind it have them. LaughingLaughingLaughing

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  AFULE Chief Train Controller

Location: South Australia



The first bus is missing it's doors on the right hand side, the two behind it have them. LaughingLaughingLaughing
"nscaler69"


--- and the people have no bloody eyes, noses or mouths etc, it a bloody artist sketch to give people an idea on how it may look, just like your avatar with number 3 & 4 control pipes and a few other things missing on the 830 class.

Confused
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.

Whilst not all car use can be justified much is necessary because of PP planning in this state.... Until the city gets good planning and not just good public transport the car will remain a necessity for rapid movement.
"steam4ian"


Hello Ian.
I have read your criticisms of the bad planning of the past which has been a major generator of road traffic, and agree with everything that you have said. A great deal of single occupant car use is necessary - I used to work in far distant suburbs and country towns and had no option but to drive my vehicle most of the time - but much car use is discretionary and unnecessary, particularly that which accesses the city and is parked all day, only to be driven home again. Commercial vehicles are also necessary to distribute goods and services, and congested roads severely hamper their free movement. Proper long distance rail transport should largely replace interstate trucking, and the terminals should be easy of access to the road distribution network. Again, a matter of proper planning. Our arterial roads can well do without interstate transports clogging them. I can remember when Portrush Road was a very pleasant up-market residential boulevard instead of the high walled canyon that now encroaches on what were beautiful gardens..

At its extreme the subordination of city amenities to the private vehicle can be seen in cities like Los Angeles. In Europe, however with networks of tram, rail and underground vehicles with high frequency, the cities are much more efficient and pleasant places in which to live.

With the level rail crossing in operation, Diagonal Road (which I can see from my kitchen window) is a nightmare of stop/start crawl at peak periods. As much as any other resident of the immediate locality I want an end to it. Grade separation is necessary. How it is to be done is all that we really disagree on, and we will just have to differ on that.

Regards, Brian.

  justapassenger Minister for Railways




This is a very large structure over 10m high and the additional 3m of track raising will increase the ramps by 100's of metres. Presumably the walkways will be one way as they will be pretty narrow to accommodate the spine beam. I can't see why the walkway is not at track level, it can be added after the existing railway is lifted as was done at South Road. A minimum ramp length is desirable if you want to stage it without a major rail closure.

"62440"


Any temporary track used during construction would be on the southern side of the corridor, not the northern side where the elevated greenway overpass is to be built, so any temporary track used wouldn't be affected by it.

I'm not sure that including the greenway at below platform level will make an impact on the height of the track. Yes, it's below the platform, but the platform level is 1.2m above the rails. Add in the significantly smaller amount of support underneath which the tracks need compared to the greenway and you're probably ending up with the greenway being no lower than the lowest point of the overpass would be without it, definitely not more than a metre. Even if it was a metre higher than would otherwise be needed, with a 3% slope that only makes a difference of 33m to the length of the ramp.

I can't see any reason why the greenway overpass would be any narrower than standard, not with the way the piers could be extended outwards to the north as far as desired. With it forming part of the station access as well as the Marino-City corridor, the aim should be to have it no narrower than 4m wide according to the standard width for a popular path. The minimum height clearance for a shared path is 2.4m, meeting and exceeding that shouldn't be a problem without forcing any change to the rail structure.



The first bus is missing it's doors on the right hand side, the two behind it have them. LaughingLaughingLaughing
"nscaler69"


I was personally disappointed that the TRAXX loco from the Goodwood grade separation images didn't make another appearance. Having seen them up close in Germany, I approve of the TRAXX Very Happy



--- and the people have no bloody eyes, noses or mouths etc, it a bloody artist sketch to give people an idea on how it may look...

"AFULE"


No, that's just Peter Malinauskas and Don Farrell out for a day with their families, a clear sign the project will be so good that even union fat cats will start using public transport Laughing

  AFULE Chief Train Controller

Location: South Australia





This is a very large structure over 10m high and the additional 3m of track raising will increase the ramps by 100's of metres. Presumably the walkways will be one way as they will be pretty narrow to accommodate the spine beam. I can't see why the walkway is not at track level, it can be added after the existing railway is lifted as was done at South Road. A minimum ramp length is desirable if you want to stage it without a major rail closure.

"62440"


Any temporary track used during construction would be on the southern side of the corridor, not the northern side where the elevated greenway overpass is to be built, so any temporary track used wouldn't be affected by it.

I'm not sure that including the greenway at below platform level will make an impact on the height of the track. Yes, it's below the platform, but the platform level is 1.2m above the rails. Add in the significantly smaller amount of support underneath which the tracks need compared to the greenway and you're probably ending up with the greenway being no lower than the lowest point of the overpass would be without it, definitely not more than a metre. Even if it was a metre higher than would otherwise be needed, with a 3% slope that only makes a difference of 33m to the length of the ramp.

I can't see any reason why the greenway overpass would be any narrower than standard, not with the way the piers could be extended outwards to the north as far as desired. With it forming part of the station access as well as the Marino-City corridor, the aim should be to have it no narrower than 4m wide according to the standard width for a popular path. The minimum height clearance for a shared path is 2.4m, meeting and exceeding that shouldn't be a problem without forcing any change to the rail structure.



The first bus is missing it's doors on the right hand side, the two behind it have them. LaughingLaughingLaughing
"nscaler69"


I was personally disappointed that the TRAXX loco from the Goodwood grade separation images didn't make another appearance. Having seen them up close in Germany, I approve of the TRAXX Very Happy



--- and the people have no bloody eyes, noses or mouths etc, it a bloody artist sketch to give people an idea on how it may look...

"AFULE"


No, that's just Peter Malinauskas and Don Farrell out for a day with their families, a clear sign the project will be so good that even union fat cats will start using public transport Laughing

"justapassenger"


I thought they did already, isn't that why we are getting funding for rail, they found out it's that good  Smile
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me

and the people have no bloody eyes, noses or mouths etc, it a bloody artist sketch to give people an idea on how it may look,
"AFULE"


Although those depicted wearing sunglasses have noses  8)

(otherwise the glasses would fall off!)  Wink
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA



and the people have no bloody eyes, noses or mouths etc, it a bloody artist sketch to give people an idea on how it may look,
"AFULE"


Although those depicted wearing sunglasses have noses 8)

(otherwise the glasses would fall off!) Wink
"Pressman"


Clearly it's a multi exposure photograph, the dude on the bike is in the pic twice, the man with the kids is in front of the foreground elevator shaft, and also on the platform, the lady and the girl are both by the traffic lights both sides of the intersection and the left hand elevator shaft, and many other double ups.

  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

The Marion Mayor has today submitted a 5611 signature petition to the state government for funds to be allocated to the Oaklands Overpass in the next state budget.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/marion-mayor-calls-for-funding-in-state-budget-towards-oaklands-park-rail-overpass/story-fnii5yv5-1226656199108

Now we await a reply from the state government.
  redadare Junior Train Controller

Location: Flagstaff Hill
One wonders if the Oaklands Overpass ever went ahead, whether the foundations would be over the same rubbish dump that was discovered when the intersection of Diagonal Rd and Morphett Rd was being upgraded when Marion Shopping Centre was being first established. They had to excavate the dump to over 100 feet down. I can remember seeing a semitrailer type Quarry Truck with a single rock as the load when they were starting to fill the hole. I have regretted having not taken a photo of that ever since.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Redadare.

I lived within 1/2 mile of the site you are referring too.

In the Marion area there were a number of former clay pits which were used as rubbish dumps until the 1960s. Resthaven is built over one. Houses are built over others and I have often wondered what happens to the methane from putrefying rubbish.

These pits were never 100 feet deep more likely about 4-5 metres or they would have been inundated with ground water, my recollection is that they were much shallower than the pits at Richmond.

The Marion Shopping Centre site was vineyards to the south and included Oaklands Primary School to the north. BTW, the project architect for the first stage of Marion lived in a property which abutted the rear of my parents house, as families we were close friends.

I first recall the Oaklands crossing when the track was still single; I was fascinated by the Switchstand which controlled entry to the freight siding; mainline loop switches were controlled from a frame in the station office which was located off the platform at ground level at the down end of the platform.

All this is to say there never was a 100 feet deep pit at or near the Oaklands crossing.

Regards
Ian
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Redadare.

I lived within 1/2 mile of the site you are referring too.

In the Marion area there were a number of former clay pits which were used as rubbish dumps until the 1960s. Resthaven is built over one. Houses are built over others and I have often wondered what happens to the methane from putrefying rubbish.

These pits were never 100 feet deep more likely about 4-5 metres or they would have been inundated with ground water, my recollection is that they were much shallower than the pits at Richmond.

The Marion Shopping Centre site was vineyards to the south and included Oaklands Primary School to the north. BTW, the project architect for the first stage of Marion lived in a property which abutted the rear of my parents house, as families we were close friends.

I first recall the Oaklands crossing when the track was still single; I was fascinated by the Switchstand which controlled entry to the freight siding; mainline loop switches were controlled from a frame in the station office which was located off the platform at ground level at the down end of the platform.

All this is to say there never was a 100 feet deep pit at or near the Oaklands crossing.

Regards
Ian
"steam4ian"

Much of the southern part of Marion SC was Patritti's land. The vines are sadly gone, (the vines used to extend beyond Seacombe Road and up the hill to the west of the SEXY) but the winery is still there on Clacton Road, these days much of the grapes come from Blewitt Springs.

No one I know that's lived in the area back then have recalled giant 100' deep pits, an 'older gent' I asked today said 'maybe 100' wide, but recalling as a child when everything seems bigger than it really is, I'd probably think maybe half that deep, but I was a kid and that probably means it was a half of that again'
  redadare Junior Train Controller

Location: Flagstaff Hill
"The land you are probably talking about (about where the Aquatic Centre is now) was the site of one of Marion's brickworks in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The brickworks, including the large deep hole from which clay was extracted (referred to as a pug hole) was first operated by Ephraim George Dorling and his father James. There is some information about this pug hole on page 286 of 'The History of Marion on the Sturt' by Alison Dolling, which is available for reference and sale at libraries in Marion. After the brickworks closed it was used for growing oranges and almonds for a while, but was eventually used as a rubbish dump, as was the case with most of the pug holes in the district between the two World wars. According to the Dolling book the rubbish dump was unearthed during roadway alterations in 1978 - a bit later than you recalled, and about ten years after the Marion Shopping Centre opened.

Regards,
Heather Latz
President, Marion Historical Society"
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

"The land you are probably talking about (about where the Aquatic Centre is now) was the site of one of Marion's brickworks in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The brickworks, including the large deep hole from which clay was extracted (referred to as a pug hole) was first operated by Ephraim George Dorling and his father James. There is some information about this pug hole on page 286 of 'The History of Marion on the Sturt' by Alison Dolling, which is available for reference and sale at libraries in Marion. After the brickworks closed it was used for growing oranges and almonds for a while, but was eventually used as a rubbish dump, as was the case with most of the pug holes in the district between the two World wars. According to the Dolling book the rubbish dump was unearthed during roadway alterations in 1978 - a bit later than you recalled, and about ten years after the Marion Shopping Centre opened.

Regards,
Heather Latz
President, Marion Historical Society"
redadare

I knew the area well. We lived in Addison Road and my Grandparents lived in Albany Crescent so we/I traversed the area frequently. I do recall the small orchard but neither a pug hole or brick works in that location. There used to be a little subdivision off Morphett Road about opposite Struan Ave. A large number of houses and a primary school got blitzed as the Marion site grew.

There were major brick works and pug holes between around Finniss Street between Dwyer Ave and Sturt Road.

I'd back my recollection against that Marion History any day.

Regards
Ian
  mmciau Locomotive Driver

Location: Marion, South Australia
The old Diagonal Road and Morphett Road Corner was a Shell Service Station and Bridglands Bus Depot.  I lived from birth (1943)  until 1968 in Kelvin Avenue Warradale.  Our cows and in particular Bessie used to get onto the rail line where Warradale RS is now and regularly slow the Willunga Express heading into Adelaide of a morning.

Re the old corner - used to stand behind the straw bales set up just off the rail line crossing as the motorbike races hammered down Diagonal Road and then around the hairpin and head south on Morphett Road.
  2001 The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
I recall reading somewhere, that Diagonal Road was originally named Tapleys Hill Road.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I recall reading somewhere, that Diagonal Road was originally named Tapleys Hill Road.
2001
The roads leading along the future locations of both Brighton Road and Diagonal Road were informally called that before the roads were given any official names. Because of this confusion, only the section north of there was officially named Tapley's Hill Road.

"Tapley's Hill" was informally used to describe the land owned by Mr Tapley (including the inn at the top which gave its name to the present Victoria Hotel) on the hillside between O'Halloran Hill (named after Major O'Halloran who owned the land) and Darlington. The boundary between Tapley's land and Major O'Halloran's land ran along the later location of Major's Road.

"Tapley's Hill" is now generally understood to refer to the ascent up Main South Road from the Marion/Flagstaff Road intersection to the top. This was recognised by the Tour Down Under organisers a few years ago when their race route details called the King of the Mountain point scoring position as Tapley's Hill rather than just Main South Road. I'm guessing they did this primarily for the sake avoiding ambiguity (because stage five of the race always uses two sections of Main South Road down near Aldinga) but to resolve that confusion with a nod to local history is nice style when they could have punished the peleton on Flagstaff Road (also a nod to local history) and avoided any confusion over the name!

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