TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Can't you still purchase a ticket from the conductor on a V/Line train?

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  jjd76au Train Controller

Location: Kilmore East
Now that it's coming in, can anyone point me to a Zone map?

Or possibly a list of stations/zones?

Thanks in advance. Smile
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Can't you still purchase a ticket from the conductor on a V/Line train?
TheBlacksmith
Yes you can.  For now.  We are about to enter the phased handover to Myki on the "commuter" routes so paper ticketing will run alongside Myki for some time to come on those.  And will remain the only method of ticketing on the Inter City routes until further notice, apparently.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
....
Great news for V/Line train users, but not so great for V/Line coach users who still have to wait for their services to 'go Myki'.
xxxxlbear

I think that's been permanently binned, hasn't it?  Revenue will know.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
....

The process is unnecessarily user-alien and the V/Line rollout does not permit users to actually obtain a Myki at rural stations unless additional kit is yet to be installed.  Yes you can top up but you cannot buy a Myki.  So how is one to pay for a journey if paper tickets are withdrawn and there is no sales outlet either open, within reasonable distance or in the town at all?
Gwiwer

This is where it gets really crazy because my understanding was that Baillieu cancelled all this in last year (or the year before?) budget, that is, long-distance trains and V-Line coaches to remain as they are.  It was a political decision that further removed functionality but it did save $$$.  Given you have to reserve a seat it could be that they decided it was going to be too hard to implement? So there will be paper tickets for longer haul routes for the time being, maybe indefinitely.  I've tried to locate the news release but can't - again - Revenue will be able to confirm/deny this as he appears to be working for TTA?
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

A topper-upper only in some places.  Others have sales disabled.
"Gwiwer"


All myki machines will be able to dispense a myki.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
This is where it gets really crazy because my understanding was that Baillieu cancelled all this in last year (or the year before?) budget, that is, long-distance trains and V-Line coaches to remain as they are.  It was a political decision that further removed functionality but it did save $$$.  Given you have to reserve a seat it could be that they decided it was going to be too hard to implement? So there will be paper tickets for longer haul routes for the time being, maybe indefinitely.  I've tried to locate the news release but can't - again - Revenue will be able to confirm/deny this as he appears to be working for TTA?
don_dunstan
What this achieves is two-system ticketing for V/Line with neither side getting the best possible option.

A customer from Bendigo for example might be able to purchase / top-up and use Myki on a train which starts from there yet not buy nor use a paper ticket.  But of the train starts from Swan Hill or Echuca it is an Inter City service for which paper ticketing (and on-board issue if required) will remain so far as we are led to believe.

Unless things change a paper ticket is issued at a fixed and advertised fare and covers Z1+2 within Melbourne if issued to or from a Melbourne destination at no extra cost.  However with Myki the fare effectively becomes flexible based upon travel patterns and cannot be determined in advance.

Thus the fare to be paid could vary depending upon which train is taken which can confuse some people who expect a fixed price.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
All myki machines will be able to dispense a myki.
Revenue

it does not dispense a concession myki and which  is going against the  Victoria Equal opportunity act 2010 (no. 16 of 2010) - section  45.

I'm at an unmanned station for example North Geelong, my concession myki card stop working, the myki machine does not sell me another concession myki , so what do I do?

MYKI is IT Project and IT project normally use what if questions to see future problems the system may incur in the future, for example what happens if I do this activity and what will be the outcome from the activity?

I can see why people drive instead of using public transport because of the PTV and Government makes hard for them to buy a ticket in the first place.

  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
I can see why people drive instead of using public transport because of the PTV and Government makes hard for them to buy a ticket in the first place.

I seldom agree with this poster's comments but on this occasion, and limited to this part of the post ......
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I think that's been permanently binned, hasn't it?  Revenue will know.
don_dunstan

This is the part that I am not really appreciating, as every coach I catch between Geelong and Ballarat, and vice-versa, has the Myki equipment already installed. We're talking coaches here, not regular suburban route work buses. I am not sure if other coaches used under contract to V/Line has Myki equipment installed, but the Geelong-Ballarat coaches certainly do.
  liron Junior Train Controller

According to the website:

Off-peak fares apply to all trips of at least three zones, except where you touch off in Zone 1 before 9am on a weekday, or touch on in Zone 1 between 4 and 6 pm on a weekday. With myki, off-peak fares apply to concession passengers on weekends.

I don't like this system, because being charged peak fares depends on when you touch on, not which service you take.  Two people could catch the same train that leaves Melbourne after 6 PM, but one gets charged a peak fare while another gets charged an off peak fare depending on when they touched on. If the train left after 4 PM, the same could apply.

Another example of this is when a person catches a suburban train to get to a station where they catch the V-line train without touching off in between trains.  They could touch on at their suburban station before 6 PM, get off at another station and catch a V-line train that leaves after 6 PM, yet get charged a peak fare, while another person who catches the same V-Line train from the second station after 6 PM gets charged a peak fare.

Also, suppose someone touches on at Bendigo and touches off at Diggers Rest, and they're an adult, will they ever be charged a peak fare under Myki?  They never touch off in a zone 1 station.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I don't like this system, because being charged peak fares depends on when you touch on, not which service you take.  Two people could catch the same train that leaves Melbourne after 6 PM, but one gets charged a peak fare while another gets charged an off peak fare depending on when they touched on. If the train left after 4 PM, the same could apply.
liron
How do you expect myki to know which train you took?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The thing that really makes me laugh about myki is comparing it to the 'bad old days', oh my, how primitive it all was!

In the 'bad old days' it was called the Railways and you could rock up with cash or card and they would always sell you a ticket.

In the new modern era, they don't take cash at all - you have to purchase a debit card and put your own money in to their account and keep it in credit or you'll be fined.  If you can't log off at your destination, as has happened to me a number of times, then you are charged maximum default fare for the day (I can't wait to see how much this is on V-Line!).  There's no customer service at stations any longer, instead there's some magical impenetrable Orwellian structure called the "Transport Ticketing Authority" employing hundreds of people the majority of whom are there to support the debit card - not the customers who use it.  Just think of it, a whole State Government bureaucracy devoted to the information technology requirements of a compulsory transport pass.  Not one of them ever sees a customer in person.

Ain't progress marvellous.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Truth be known I just dislike having ANOTHER set of logins for yet ANOTHER account... I'm already an insane, old alcoholic- it's impossible to remember all these God-damn user ID's and passwords without writing them down somewhere.  Now one for the bloody train ticket too?  You're pushin' me baby!
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Well put, but that's what you get when you turn over a ticketing system to a bunch of nerds who have no idea with regard to human relations.

Passwords, pins, phooey. I just use the same one all the time, which totally compromises the security of the system. Do you want to know what is it? The same one I use here on Railpage and everywhere else. IT people think it adds to security, when it facts it reduces security because people simply do not put the same level of importance on passwords and pin numbers that IT people do.
  Lance-Fieldline Train Controller

Location: Stalybridge Station Buffet
Hi there

Have worked out how to stop someone paying $6 for a myki, adding $1 to it and travelling from Southern Cross to Bendigo, then throwing away the card?

Cheers
Lance
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
I only travel occasionally.  I just want to be able to pay a human in cash a fixed amount for a trip form A to B.

I do not want a semi-functional (as it has turned out) gizmo with (equally semi-functional) whistles and bells which requires that I operate an account, pre-rent an electronic card, swipe it left right and centre and potentially have "errors" charged to my account if they cannot be proven to be system faults.

Why, oh why, can we not learn the "simple" lesson?  Keep it simple, stupid (or KISS as it is referred to) and keep your customers happy.  You can have all the discounted fares, periodicals and what ever you like and you can even offer them coded onto a piece of plastic but for goodness sake why do we have to abandon the simplest of public transport customer service principles of being able to pay cash at a known fare to someone as we start our journey?

No-one has yet offered a plain-English answer to this.  We have had all sorts of techno-speak and propoganda (in general - not confined to this forum) in response but $1.5 BILLION later the question has not been answered.

And having trudged a lonely path for several years as Myki was developed, rolled out and now rolled back somewhat I now see there are other voices crying in the wilderness and gnashing teeth.  Welcome to the dark side.  We believe in cash and customer service!
  michaelnorman Beginner

Now that it's coming in, can anyone point me to a Zone map?

Or possibly a list of stations/zones?

Thanks in advance. Smile
jjd76au
here you go

http://www.vline.com.au/pdf/networkmaps/vline_myki_map.pdf
  Peter Spyker Train Controller

So now that Myki is going to cover V/line trips, and many of those stations are in Zone 2, then we should be seeing a revised Melbourne Train map with all of the "extensions", shouldn't we?

Given that Melton's V/Line service is shown on that map (as were Sunbury's and Craigieburn's, until they became electrified), then the map should be extended to show Lara, Baccus Marsh, Riddells Creek and Wandong...
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Still no-one has yet explained why no-one can buy or top up Myki's anywhere on the entire Bellarine Peninsula Confused
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

Still no-one has yet explained why no-one can buy or top up Myki's anywhere on the entire Bellarine Peninsula Confused
xxxxlbear
Just flag down any McHarrys bus.  They have top up on board.  They are also the only place you can use a myki on the Bellarine Peninsula.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Just flag down any McHarrys bus.  They have top up on board.  They are also the only place you can use a myki on the Bellarine Peninsula.
DalyWaters

Thanks DalyWaters. Smile

I live in an inner suburb of Geelong, so I am right for top ups, but as I semi-regularly travel to Queenscliff by bus, I am acutely aware that those who live in towns such as Portarlingon, Queenscliff, Point Lonsdale, and even Drysdale, do not have the advantage of being able to purchase or top up a Myki without having to flag down a bus.
Myki seems to forget that some do not have access to a home based pc, and some with home access to a computer refuse to conduct financial transactions online.
  vlocity160 V/Gunzel

Can't you still purchase a ticket from the conductor on a V/Line train?
TheBlacksmith

Yes. I assume that this will be the case until such time that the government has decided everybody has had sufficient time to purchase a myki.

it does not dispense a concession myki and which  is going against the  Victoria Equal opportunity act 2010 (no. 16 of 2010) - section  45.
"melbtrip"

Whilst this may be the case, it's a good idea in a sense. I'm not sure about retail outlets (As to whether they sell concessions or not. Somebody help me out here?) but any person who is employed by a company/organisation to provide a public transport service (That has a contract with the DoT) in the state of Victoria is an "authorised person" under the Transport Act. As a result of being an "authorised person" they are entitled to ask for your concession entitlement. You can't do this with a machine. Therefore it should cut down on the number of people having concession myki's which they are actually not entitled to. However, everybody knows that if you meet a certain criteria you can get a health care card from Centrelink and this is valid for X amount of time. What stops you from holding that myki card when your concession is expired? Nothing unfortunately.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I only travel occasionally.  I just want to be able to pay a human in cash a fixed amount for a trip form A to B.

I do not want a semi-functional (as it has turned out) gizmo with (equally semi-functional) whistles and bells which requires that I operate an account, pre-rent an electronic card, swipe it left right and centre and potentially have "errors" charged to my account if they cannot be proven to be system faults.

Why, oh why, can we not learn the "simple" lesson?  Keep it simple, stupid (or KISS as it is referred to) and keep your customers happy.  You can have all the discounted fares, periodicals and what ever you like and you can even offer them coded onto a piece of plastic but for goodness sake why do we have to abandon the simplest of public transport customer service principles of being able to pay cash at a known fare to someone as we start our journey?

No-one has yet offered a plain-English answer to this.  We have had all sorts of techno-speak and propoganda (in general - not confined to this forum) in response but $1.5 BILLION later the question has not been answered.

And having trudged a lonely path for several years as Myki was developed, rolled out and now rolled back somewhat I now see there are other voices crying in the wilderness and gnashing teeth.  Welcome to the dark side.  We believe in cash and customer service!
Gwiwer

We're on the same page, Gwiwer.

The answers are really complicated and buried back in time.

Peter Bachelor was swift-talked into it by slick IT sales people who told him that Metcard was about to break down (not the truth) and Melbourne would be left behind as other cities were going that way.  In those days there was an unexpected river of money flowing in from our unprecedented housing boom and they were looking for things to spend it on.  It was obvious from the start that the system was going to be engineered so that the customers have to meet the requirements of the system - not the other way round.  My first clue was the announcement a few years ago that passengers needed to familiarise themselves with the Myki Operations Manual.  What?  You mean there's a manual?  Uh-oh...

The problem of being hostile to cash is an old one.  Everyone hates cash collection because it (ironically) costs money to do it but the weight of the law still says you are entitled to buy a service with it - hence this half-hearted attempt with TVM's and forcing you to buy a plastic card.  The problem is that you aren't always in a situation where you can keep sufficient credit on some stupid debit card and the 90-day account lock-out is just sheer bloody-mindedness designed to add another layer of frustration to a system already structured to deter occasional users, the very people you should be trying to attract to public transport.

The other problem is the sheer unreliability of the system, in all it's modes.  As I have mentioned previously I've been ripped off when trying to touch off on the rail system and ALL the validators are out of action at your destination.  On this topic I have noticed that when they locate them exposed to the weather they appear to be much more unreliable (water damage?), common sense that they should avoid this wherever possible but again you don't associate common-sense with myki, do you.  In this situation you are charged the default for the day which I must admit is only a few dollars more but it's happened frequently enough to make you really worry when they talk about 11 zones on V-Line (oh God please don't take away cash ticketing on V-Line!).

Now for the scoop.  My own theory (hang onto your hats!) is that the secret advice that Baillieu got early in his premiership from Deloitte indicated that making myki slightly more customer unfriendly (removing some functionality such as short-term ticketing) would help with load-shedding on the busiest sections of the system as occasional users will be deterred from using it by the inflexibility of the ticketing.  This is why they've resisted releasing it, they're embarrassed by the cynicism of that decision.

IN the meantime Gwiwer, you and me are stuck with it.  It's the biblical mark-of-the-beast, isn't it... you can't leave home without it!
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:

Have they worked out how to stop someone paying $6 for a myki, adding $1 to it and travelling from Southern Cross to Bendigo, then throwing away the card?
Lance-Fieldline
When traveling through more than two zones passengers are required to have enough myki money (and/or myki pass) to pay for the entire trip before boarding.
They could easily underestimate the required fare if they board at an unstaffed station or waste much more than $6 on a card they might only use once.

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