Digital TV

 
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
all digital channels are capable of transmitting HD
TheBlacksmith
I have no way of verifying or disputing that, but the fact is that not all channels broadcast a HD signal.

The Aussie Gummint says:

What are standard definition (SD) pictures?

Standard definition broadcast quality is superior to that obtained from analog television broadcasts, traditionally viewed on 4:3 television sets, and is ghost-free and in widescreen format. The SD picture resolution is 576 lines x 720 active pixels @ 50Hz interlaced (576i).

The Government requires broadcasters to provide a digital SD signal at all times, even when high definition programs are broadcast. This is to ensure that viewers with SD receivers will always receive a digital television service, even when the higher quality high definition television signal is transmitted.

What are high definition (HD) pictures?

High definition broadcasts have image resolution that is superior to SD and the existing analog television broadcast.

Australian broadcasters are currently using four different levels of HD:
• 1920 active pixels x 1080 lines @ 50Hz interlaced
• 1440 active pixels x 1080 lines @ 50Hz interlaced
• 1280 active pixels x 720 lines @ 50Hz progressive
• 720 active pixels x 576 lines @ 50Hz progressive

The benefits of HD pictures at the highest resolution are particularly noticeable on larger screen sets and when using projection equipment. HD pictures are also ghost-free and in widescreen format. When viewed on a HD capable television screen the viewer can enjoy cinema-quality viewing with Dolby Digital sound (where available with some HD programming).

More information is available from http://www.digitalready.gov.au.
Aussie Gummint

Italics mine.

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  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Forgive me if I misunderstand the previous post, but, at the monent, Melbourne receives 3 types of broadcasting:
1. Analogue. This is what we all know from when tv was introduced, and is about to be switched off in November (?). To receive broadcasts after this date, people need either a digital set top box, or a digital tv.

2. SD digital. SD is not analogue, but a digital transmission. The stations broadcast are noted above.

3. HD digital.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Forgive me if I misunderstand the previous post, but, at the monent, Melbourne receives 3 types of broadcasting:
1. Analogue. This is what we all know from when tv was introduced, and is about to be switched off in November (?). To receive broadcasts after this date, people need either a digital set top box, or a digital tv.

2. SD digital. SD is not analogue, but a digital transmission. The stations broadcast are noted above.

3. HD digital.
xxxxlbear

More or less correct, but in reality there are only two types, analogue and digital. Digital can carry an SD or HD signal.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I have no way of verifying or disputing that, but the fact is that not all channels broadcast a HD signal.

The Aussie Gummint says:


Italics mine.
Graham4405

More or less what I said in my previous edited post.

PS, love the way this board drops the content in the quoted box.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Braddos comment: 'but from a technical perspective the TV in the UK is far superior.' is incorrect as the UK uses the same DVB-T standard that is used in Australia.
TheBlacksmith
Braddo is in fact correct.  Australia uses DVB-T which means that 1990s technology MPEG-2 compression is used.  The UK uses DVB-T2 which uses more efficient MPEG4 compression and means far more channels can be squeezed in.

Most new receivers will decode DVB-T2, but not those manufactured more than 4 years ago.

This is the list of what is broadcast on 6 mulitplexes in the UK (left hand column).  Read it and weep:
http://www.ukfree.tv/allchannels.php
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I have no way of verifying or disputing that, but the fact is that not all channels broadcast a HD signal.

The Aussie Gummint says:
Graham4405
What is sent out on the frequency is largely irrelevant, it could be just about anything, every network is capable of HD broadcasting, indeed every 'channel' within the network is carried on the one frequency. Every network has it's own 7MHz of bandwidth allocated within the broadcast spectrum.

In Adelaide Seven Network broadcasts on ONLY 177500 frequency, and it has it's own 7MHz there, 7,70,71,72,73,74 etc all on the one frequency they can all show the same thing, they can all show different things or they can all show nothing.

You CANNOT trust what 'The Aussie Gummint' says about broadcasting, because they know not what they are talking about! The classic being them classifying 576i as SD and 576p as HD... They are ... the SAME resolution... BOTH being SD. It matters not in which order the lines are drawn, it matters only how many lines there are... Time for Senator Conroy etc to wear the red underpants.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Braddo is in fact correct.  Australia uses DVB-T which means that 1990s technology MPEG-2 compression is used.  The UK uses DVB-T2 which uses more efficient MPEG4 compression and means far more channels can be squeezed in.
Carnot
I would not say that using MPEG-4 resulted in a better broadcast, I would say that it might even be made worse. Adding more channels to the multicast only counts if you've got the content and desire to use them... We struggle for content to fill our current selection of channel allocations.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

I would not say that using MPEG-4 resulted in a better broadcast, I would say that it might even be made worse. Adding more channels to the multicast only counts if you've got the content and desire to use them... We struggle for content to fill our current selection of channel allocations.
Aaron
An MPEG4 HD stream at 5 MBps (i.e Foxtel) looks better than a FTA MPEG2 HD stream at 9 MBps (GEM) IMO.

Much of the content on GEM, 7Mate, and One isn't native HD either.  Simply 576i upscaled to 1080i.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
An MPEG4 HD stream at 5 MBps (i.e Foxtel) looks better than a FTA MPEG2 HD stream at 9 MBps (GEM) IMO.

Much of the content on GEM, 7Mate, and One isn't native HD either.  Simply 576i upscaled to 1080i.
Carnot
Why, they still have the same resolution? All that MPEG4 does is give a better degree of compression, the image itself does not alter. And Braddo is not correct, there is nothing FAR superior about DVB-T2, the primary advantage is the higher compression allowing more channels in a given space.


And yes, there is a fair amount of upscaled content, simply because, as I have said several times before, there is insufficient HD content being produced to fill the time space. And that is no different in the UK either as many of their channels are filled with the same crap you get here and in the US.
  Ballast_Plough Chief Commissioner

Location: Lilydale, Vic
Fair enough. It's not something I have ever heard of previously. I can't see much point myself - how often is it used? I suppose you could watch "Days of our Lives" while waiting to pick up the kids from school!
duttonbay

My wife will often watch the news while sitting watching my son at cricket training etc. Which is why we wanted to find a fix prior to November!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
An MPEG4 HD stream at 5 MBps (i.e Foxtel) looks better than a FTA MPEG2 HD stream at 9 MBps (GEM) IMO.

Much of the content on GEM, 7Mate, and One isn't native HD either.  Simply 576i upscaled to 1080i.
"Carnot"

Foxtel broadcast quality is only slightly above rubbish, not something I'd be getting excited about...

We well know about the up scaling, it's near enough to what your DVD player also does... The reason for the up scaling has been mentioned before.

You are arguing with people who make (or maybe made) their money in the industry.
  v-locity Station Master

Location: The Frankston Line
I just cant work it out, the TV in the main sitting room works ( A ok ) as does a potable one i have in the Hobby room But my Poor old Dad is beside himself as the T V in his room breaks up for hours on end over a lot of viewing nights to the point i think hes over it all. Also i have a largish Radio Bush brand plugs into wall and has beautiful sound and great reception but a portable battery power one i have just burns through the batteries no end. Only last one to two days tops. Sad
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I just cant work it out, the TV in the main sitting room works ( A ok ) as does a potable one i have in the Hobby room But my Poor old Dad is beside himself as the T V in his room breaks up for hours on end over a lot of viewing nights to the point i think hes over it all. Also i have a largish Radio Bush brand plugs into wall and has beautiful sound and great reception but a portable battery power one i have just burns through the batteries no end. Only last one to two days tops. Sad
v-locity

Is his set a digital set or analogue? If it is analogue, you might be better off treating him to a low cost digital set. You can get good ones for under $300 at present.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Is his set a digital set or analogue? If it is analogue, you might be better off treating him to a low cost digital set. You can get good ones for under $300 at present.
TheBlacksmith
Could be faulty antenna cabling (intermittent).  Poor quality HDMI cables can also create interference.  I've noticed that there can be quite a difference in tuner sensitivity as well.  i.e. Topfield, Healing, Homecast - excellent.  Cheap no name brands often rubbish.
  v-locity Station Master

Location: The Frankston Line
Is his set a digital set or analogue? If it is analogue, you might be better off treating him to a low cost digital set. You can get good ones for under $300 at present.
TheBlacksmith
Yeah its a digital very large flat screen LCD, pictures great when its working. I ran a test the other night and the TV tells me that it has a very strong reception? Anyway the one in the sitting room runs off the old antenna ( Huge thing ) mounted on the chimney.. And when i bought my portable i bought the largest antenna i could buy from DSE and works great. May have to just lash out and buy a much bigger better grade for the old mans room. I bought it new and mounted it and worked ok but it is smaller much smaller and not top of the money end. What you pay for is what you get I'm guessing.
  v-locity Station Master

Location: The Frankston Line
Could be faulty antenna cabling (intermittent).  Poor quality HDMI cables can also create interference.  I've noticed that there can be quite a difference in tuner sensitivity as well.  i.e. Topfield, Healing, Homecast - excellent.  Cheap no name brands often rubbish.
Carnot
Yes could very well be, i think i may have to travel down this path and at least find out.
Thanks Carnot-Blacksmith
Cheers
Mark
  PaulAustin Locomotive Fireman

this isn't digital but I love that the geolock for a lot of commercial radio online streaming in the UK is simply bypassed by typing in a UK postcode!
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p
An MPEG4 HD stream at 5 MBps (i.e Foxtel) looks better than a FTA MPEG2 HD stream at 9 MBps (GEM) IMO.

Much of the content on GEM, 7Mate, and One isn't native HD either.  Simply 576i upscaled to 1080i.
Carnot

Digital TV is a joke in this country. Most of the HD content naturally appears on the main channel because it's the latest content and rates the highest. The older content which is often SD and rates lower or more niche programs wind up on the HD channel.

I think the main reason for this is because the TV stations must provide SD transmission on the main channel. HD can only mirror the main channel. However, they are free to use the HD channel as a secondary channel without a requirement to mirror SD. By doing this they can have an extra channel than they otherwise would be broadcasting.

I think the main channel should be the HD one if they are only going to have one HD channel. I got a set top box capable of recieving HD about 4 years ago for $50, so it's not expensive to swap over. For those under financial hardship, I'm sure the government could provide HD capable set top boxes at a cheaper price. They'll need to get a SD set top box anyway.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Digital TV is a joke in this country. Most of the HD content naturally appears on the main channel because it's the latest content and rates the highest. The older content which is often SD and rates lower or more niche programs wind up on the HD channel.

I think the main reason for this is because the TV stations must provide SD transmission on the main channel. HD can only mirror the main channel. However, they are free to use the HD channel as a secondary channel without a requirement to mirror SD. By doing this they can have an extra channel than they otherwise would be broadcasting.

I think the main channel should be the HD one if they are only going to have one HD channel. I got a set top box capable of recieving HD about 4 years ago for $50, so it's not expensive to swap over. For those under financial hardship, I'm sure the government could provide HD capable set top boxes at a cheaper price. They'll need to get a SD set top box anyway.
VRfan

They are.
Most people in receipt of a governement are eligible for a free set top box, and free installation.

The Household Assistance SchemeThe Household Assistance Scheme will help eligible households receive digital TV signals. The package is free-of-charge, with a maximum of one per couple (including if you move house). It will be installed by a qualified government contractor and includes:
  • one high definition set-top box
  • the installation of the set-top box
  • a demonstration of and instructions on how to use the set-top box
  • 12-month in-home warranty on the set-top box and related work undertaken in your home
  • 12 months’ access to a free hotline to provide technical support
If you live with someone who is not your partner, and who is receiving one of the eligible payments, he or she may also be eligible to receive assistance under the scheme, and should contact us to check his or her eligibility.
If you own your home, you may be eligible for any necessary upgrades to your cabling and antenna system, including an external antenna. The scheme also provides satellite-TV equipment in some areas that cannot receive TV from local transmitter towers.
Centrelink


Link: http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/centrelink/digital-tv-switchover-household-assistance-scheme/household-assistance-scheme

Further information can be found here: http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/digital-tv-switchover-household-assistance-scheme
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p
So given that people can claim a set top box (if elligible) and HD ones are cheap anyway, why is there this insistence on the main channel must provide an SD broadcast...

SD is a throwback to the old analog days, basically a transitional state. All new programs are shot in HD and should be broadcast in HD. Sport is the most annoying thing. F1 is a good example. Qualifying (which rates less) is shown on One HD and looks brilliant. The race is shown on Ten which is SD and looks terrible by comparison. Jagged lines and no detail. It should be the other way around.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
So given that people can claim a set top box (if elligible) and HD ones are cheap anyway, why is there this insistence on the main channel must provide an SD broadcast...

SD is a throwback to the old analog days, basically a transitional state. All new programs are shot in HD and should be broadcast in HD. Sport is the most annoying thing. F1 is a good example. Qualifying (which rates less) is shown on One HD and looks brilliant. The race is shown on Ten which is SD and looks terrible by comparison. Jagged lines and no detail. It should be the other way around.
VRfan

The reason for SD on the main channel is because people with older sets would not be able to access TV on that channel. It was quite a sensible decision to ensure legacy TV owners were not cut out of TV reception.

However, with the shutting down of the analogue broadcasting channels, it steps a little closer to removing the SD requirement. It wont be long before the legacy sets are retired anyway. How many people still have old tube sets? Not too many where I come from, they are all dumped on the country roads around here now.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The reason for SD on the main channel is because people with older sets would not be able to access TV on that channel. It was quite a sensible decision to ensure legacy TV owners were not cut out of TV reception.

However, with the shutting down of the analogue broadcasting channels, it steps a little closer to removing the SD requirement. It wont be long before the legacy sets are retired anyway. How many people still have old tube sets? Not too many where I come from, they are all dumped on the country roads around here now.
TheBlacksmith

Agreed, I'm probably the only person I know with a CRT telly - my friends get horrified when they see it - worse than owning a gramophone.

My old CRT blew up three years ago and I was about to go to JB Hi Fi and spend a thousand bucks when one of my neighbours put a nice-looking pure flat CRT on their nature strip and I decided to save my money... I've had that ever since but I have recently upgraded from a standard-def box to a high-def box with a 500gb recorder drive.

I've already seen second-hand plasmas and LCD's at the op shops so it won't be long now till one of my neighbours throws away an LCD.  One of the advantages of living in a posh area of Melbourne, some of my neighbours throw away some unbelievably nice things just because they're out of fashion.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Agreed, I'm probably the only person I know with a CRT telly - my friends get horrified when they see it - worse than owning a gramophone.

My old CRT blew up three years ago and I was about to go to JB Hi Fi and spend a thousand bucks when one of my neighbours put a nice-looking pure flat CRT on their nature strip and I decided to save my money... I've had that ever since but I have recently upgraded from a standard-def box to a high-def box with a 500gb recorder drive.

I've already seen second-hand plasmas and LCD's at the op shops so it won't be long now till one of my neighbours throws away an LCD.  One of the advantages of living in a posh area of Melbourne, some of my neighbours throw away some unbelievably nice things just because they're out of fashion.
don_dunstan

Interestingly, when the government gave pensioners the $1,000 grant a couple of years ago, I bought, for whatever reason I cannot remember, from the Good Guys, a TCL tubed (CRT) SD television. They do exist, I bought one! Confused
They were on special, and, by the sound of it, The Good Guys were very keen to get rid of it.
It is extremely heavy, and huge.
But I saw the light, and 3 months ago, I invested in an AWA LCD HD tv, and now my CRT tv is awaiting disposal to either a good home, or the tip or recyclers.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
I invested in an AWA LCD HD tv
xxxxlbear
I have two AWA LED LCD HD TVs. I don't believe I need huge screens, so one is 60cm the other 80cm. The 80cm one is crap.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Graham4405, I am very happy with my 28' LCD tv (as I tend to lie on the floor with pillows to watch tv-its comfortable for me), though it can be small at times for a lounge room when watching from a distance (it is basically better suited for a bedroom or a caravan). I could have gone up a few more inches and I'd be really happy. The other thing I really didn't notice until I got the thing home and set up is that the sound is utter c**p-it sounds like it is coming out of the rear end of an empty tin can. I've been told by my brother to invest in a 'sound bar' *roles eyes*- apparently that is a common fault with new LCD/LED tvs these days is the awful sound that comes out of the rear of the tvs.

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