Trials of "Quiet carriages"

 
  sssshhhh! Beginner

I support the quiet carriage concept but using the last carriage as the quiet carriage makes it harder for those with young children who, according to CityRail http://www.cityrail.info/travelling_with/safety_and_education/children are recommended to travel near the guard's compartment.
mikeyandmary

You must be the only person that actaually follows this instruction even on my peak hour trains it's like a freaking daycare center!

I just hopped an H set and the first carriages has quiet carriage signs in the doors. It's a four-car H.
plettner

Be interesting to see if the school kiddies are still oblivious to it next week? I'll go with YES

The problem now for H sets will be the suburban runs.

Great signage imo.
Kamz
Sounds more like an opportunity to me!

it would be better to shove all the people who want quietness into their own carriage, rather than forcing all noisy people togethor.

I mean, after school, there are about 700-1000 school kids from a variety of schools who catch the 3.26 train from Gosford to Sydney. Alot of them need to sit in the last carriage to get off. And it seems unfair that they have to move between carriage for the sake of another luxury.
Muxcomee
No it would be better to shove those who can't respect others and have to talk at the top of their voice into a very enclosed space Smile. Their wouldn't be quiet carriages if people could manage to keep the volume at a low level. Instead what do we have 6-12 pricks on every carriage who think everyone needs to hear about their "awsome live" so they can be heard from one end to the other.

IIRC school passes are handed out on the tax payers dime. Perhaps school kids should remain silent, their free travel is a privilege.

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  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
IIRC school passes are handed out on the tax payers dime. Perhaps school kids should remain silent, their free travel is a privilege.
sssshhhh!
Couldn't agree more. It's a privilege, not a right!

As for the suburban runs, the stickers are just like the toilet - not required. They're not causing any problems, so I don't see what the issue is?
  sssshhhh! Beginner

As for the suburban runs, the stickers are just like the toilet - not required.
Raichase
Why not keep them in play though? My morning train is an Oscar. It's an "express" (and I use the term loosly) but the train comes up from Thirroul, "first and last carriages......." has always been displayed so people consider it is in effect. I've also caught Waterfall trains from Town Hall (either the 18:39 or 19:04 I think?) which have been Oscar's and the guard has given notice about keeping quiet.

It's a longer tip from the city to waterfall on a suburban train (and I guess cronulla as well) than it is to Helensburgh for the same price. Just make the entire Illawarra line have quite carriages. easy!
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Putting stickers on the Endeavours would be too hard I'd imagine?
  Muxcomee Station Staff

You have pointed out the minority of cases where 4 quiet cars can be inconvenient but the majority of the time it will benefit passengers.
bowralcommuter
I dont see how. At first it was a good idea, but now I feel it is getting to an excess, a proposition by the government to simply win votes.
It needs to be thought through more carefully.

1) Those people WANT quiet. Some people NEED to get off at short platforms. Why should they be punished?
2) All the quiet carriages are the carriages with guards. Younger children are advised to sit in guard carriages. Now we can't.
3) Many quiet carriages run with very few people in it, just giving those same few people 4 carriages to themselves is silly, while those with babies and toddlers and school children and teenagers must squeeze into 4 carriages, which can carry a safety problems down the line.

Quiet carriages aren't bad,  Im not against them. But only blindly serving a minority of passengers whilst turning a blind eye to the safety of children and taking into consideration the placement of quiet carriages and guards is just bad planning. Its at the point of excess now. And eventually, when the network grows much larger and more people will be using, one will find that managing this already delicate and slipping balance will be near impossible.

'School kids travel for free'

Yeah well so do half of the people using it anyway.

In many other countries, people actually stand for both the kids and the elderly. No offence, but our bags are several thousand times heavier than yours. And either, promoting this idea of entitlement is morally bad for the soul. Its public transport. Learn to share, it ain't private. Otherwise, drive. All the peace you want.

Oh, and I forgot, some of the freaks who travel in those cars. *shudder*. I had a sneezing fit once and this old man yelled at me. I swear there are people out there who ride it all day, just waiting to pounce at the slightest provocation. It was really frightening. And since the rest of the carriage (like almost all the other quiet carriages *hummm*) was empty, no one would tell him to stop shouting abuse at me. In the end, I decided to move carriages and when I got to my stop I would just move back to the end door.

Which brings me to another point, it seems that every non-quiet carriage is a war zone now. I always find it so loud, there are always hundreds of screaming babies, yelling toddlers, bellowing teenagers and the like. Its not their fault though, well it is, but with the implementation of quiet carraiges, no one has to be considerate of eachother anymore. There are no guards, and no elderly to threaten to get the guards. I find that on alot of jounrneys, both off peak and on peak, weekday and weekend, on trains with this quiet carriage has made my train trip much worse. On one end, there are maniacs who yell when you breath loudly and on the other, people who shout 'get to your quiet carriage' on the other.

Ugh xoxo
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I dont see how. At first it was a good idea, but now I feel it is getting to an excess, a proposition by the government to simply win votes.
It needs to be thought through more carefully.
"Muxcomee"
I agree. The solution is to create a more pleasant protected environment that is subject to a surcharge, where both the surcharge and protection are enforced. Want to have a more pleasant travel experience? Cough up or harden up.

1) Those people WANT quiet. Some people NEED to get off at short platforms. Why should they be punished?
"Muxcomee"
Make all the noise you want in the ordinary carriages, but I fail to see why you cannot be quiet while in the quiet carriage preparing to alight.

2) All the quiet carriages are the carriages with guards. Younger children are advised to sit in guard carriages. Now we can't.
"Muxcomee"
Are you serious?

3) Many quiet carriages run with very few people in it, just giving those same few people 4 carriages to themselves is silly, while those with babies and toddlers and school children and teenagers must squeeze into 4 carriages, which can carry a safety problems down the line.
"Muxcomee"
You know, you're more than welcome in the quiet carriage as long as you keep your noise down. If you put your bag down quietly, read a book or get some work done on your notebook, while listening to some non-blaring music through earphones, you'll be fine.

Quiet carriages aren't bad,  Im not against them. But only blindly serving a minority of passengers whilst turning a blind eye to the safety of children and taking into consideration the placement of quiet carriages and guards is just bad planning. Its at the point of excess now. And eventually, when the network grows much larger and more people will be using, one will find that managing this already delicate and slipping balance will be near impossible.
"Muxcomee"
Safe havens exist for the well-behaved.

'School kids travel for free'

Yeah well so do half of the people using it anyway.
"Muxcomee"
k

In many other countries, people actually stand for both the kids and the elderly. No offence, but our bags are several thousand times heavier than yours. And either, promoting this idea of entitlement is morally bad for the soul. Its public transport. Learn to share, it ain't private. Otherwise, drive. All the peace you want.
"Muxcomee"
LEL

Generally, only parents stand for their kids. It is in fact more common for school children to be required to preferentially surrender their seat to an adult. I believe the State Transit Authority of New South Wales has this regulation; the STA version requires students on student passes to surrender their seat to all adult/disabled passengers.

I agree that there's a ridiculous sense of entitlement.

Oh, and I forgot, some of the freaks who travel in those cars. *shudder*. I had a sneezing fit once and this old man yelled at me. I swear there are people out there who ride it all day, just waiting to pounce at the slightest provocation. It was really frightening. And since the rest of the carriage (like almost all the other quiet carriages *hummm*) was empty, no one would tell him to stop shouting abuse at me. In the end, I decided to move carriages and when I got to my stop I would just move back to the end door.
"Muxcomee"
Yes, yes. There was a guy who had a go at me because I was telling my Mountains mate a story. I've also copped a nasty look or fifteen for bringing a beef curry rice box on board. You get used to it.

Which brings me to another point, it seems that every non-quiet carriage is a war zone now. I always find it so loud, there are always hundreds of screaming babies, yelling toddlers, bellowing teenagers and the like.
"Muxcomee"
There aren't hundreds, but otherwise your testimony seems fairly accurate. I suggest you focus on descriptive writing for English. (This is a serious suggestion.)

Its not their fault though, well it is, but with the implementation of quiet carraiges, no one has to be considerate of eachother anymore. There are no guards, and no elderly to threaten to get the guards. I find that on alot of jounrneys, both off peak and on peak, weekday and weekend, on trains with this quiet carriage has made my train trip much worse. On one end, there are maniacs who yell when you breath loudly and on the other, people who shout 'get to your quiet carriage' on the other.
"Muxcomee"
I so cannot wait to come home and find this mess, if only to verify your claims.

Ugh xoxo
"Muxcomee"
muacks
  Aurora8 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Make all the noise you want in the ordinary carriages
Watson457

I don't think that's the right message. "Customers" should be considerate where possible regardless.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I don't think that's the right message. "Customers" should be considerate where possible regardless.
"Aurora8"
You're right, but this is relative.
  sssshhhh! Beginner

I don't think that's the right message. "Customers" should be considerate where possible regardless.
Aurora8

This I think is the reason for quiet carriages in the first place, used to be you'd get on the train and keep quite (library voice), now anyone having a chat needs to talk loud enough that everyone hears about their "ultra cool lifestyle", I'm not pointing finger at the under 25's only but... well if shoe fits. People need to realise "public transport" means it's open to the public for use, it doesn't give you the right to use the train as your kitchen, bathroom or living room. Perhaps compulsary consideration of others training would be better than more quiet carriages?

2) All the quiet carriages are the carriages with guards. Younger children are advised to sit in guard carriages. Now we can't.
Muxcomee

No you can still use them, what you don't seem to be able to do is shut up. Also travelling next to the guard seems to be redundant due to help points throughout the train.

'School kids travel for free'

Yeah well so do half of the people using it anyway.

In many other countries, people actually stand for both the kids and the elderly. No offence, but our bags are several thousand times heavier than
Muxcomee
It's THAT easy to get free travel? Tell me how. Now I'm a little more understanding of why I've only seen the new generation transits standing at barriers looking at tickets!

As for the second part maybe in other parts of the world children and the elderly also pay their own way. Those pesky adults you see not only pay for their own ticket they fund your free and subsidised travel as well as being taxed so the government has the money for a train system so forgive us as working/paying customers for wanting a little silence at each end of a long and difficult day!
  sssshhhh! Beginner

Generally, only parents stand for their kids. It is in fact more common for school children to be required to preferentially surrender their seat to an adult. I believe the State Transit Authority of New South Wales has this regulation; the STA version requires students on student passes to surrender their seat to all adult/disabled passengers.
Watson374
Certainly what it says http://www.sydneytrains.info/travelling_with/safety_and_education/student_responsibilities. How many other bullet points are ignored? "Use non-offensive language and behave appropriately at all times on rail property (e.g. avoid swearing, spitting, fighting, throwing items, keep feet off seats)." HAHAHAHA!
  Piston Train Controller

There was always going to be a problem with running Oscar train equipped with 'quite carriages' onto suburban runs. The Sydney Trains website clearly shows quite carriages only on the Main Western, Northern, Illawarra and now the Bathurst services. No mention of quite carriages on any other corridor.

The Oscars from Wyong  that proceed down the North Shore line clearly don't according to the Sydney Trains website have 'quite carriage' status. So are passengers that board these services at say Gordon, Chatswood or St Leonards allowed to talk despite them being labelled as quite carriages?  You can see some biffos happening on these trains when the coasties think no one boarding on these runs should be talking.

Will this apply to all other Oscar services that get rostered onto suburban services?

Far from Gladys 'Fixing the trains' campaign, this expansion of quite carriages will only exacerbate the problem. Another dumb idea not thought through by management.
  vdan Train Controller

Had my first encounter with "quiet car rage" a few weekends ago when a man accompanied by his loudly-talking kid got on the front car at Hornsby. A guy pointed out it was the quiet car then went off his dial after he received a dismissive response. The train made an unscheduled stop at Asquith so the guard and driver could deal with the quiet car dispute.

Sometimes, it feels more like a "tense car". The quiet label hightens expectations, and when they aren't met, it leads to a greater level of frustration than would've existed before. In my experience, early morning weekday interurbans in the peak direction prior to hitting suburban areas are consistently quiet, full of regular long-distance commuters who observe an unwritten code independent of signs/announcements. But other than that, it's very hit and miss.

Can find similar gripes about quiet cars in other countries.
  Muxcomee Station Staff

I agree. The solution is to create a more pleasant protected environment that is subject to a surcharge, where both the surcharge and protection are enforced. Want to have a more pleasant travel experience? Cough up or harden up.Yes, exactly.


Make all the noise you want in the ordinary carriages, but I fail to see why you cannot be quiet while in the quiet carriage preparing to alight.

I meant that it is unfair for people who need to alight at certain stations having to move around, whilst people who want quiet get it easy. I was getting at necessary/un neccesary and whats fair/unfair.


Are you serious?
I meant this to mean that is hypocritical of Sydney Trains so give lectures and seminars to schools, telling them to sit in guard carriages and then effectively telling us not to. Let's be realistic, alot of people sit in quiet carriages to get away from us kids and the quiet carraiges are there to stop us kids from going in there. I saw it was a conflict of interest or something like that.


You know, you're more than welcome in the quiet carriage as long as you keep your noise down. If you put your bag down quietly, read a book or get some work done on your notebook, while listening to some non-blaring music through earphones, you'll be fine.
Touche.


Safe havens exist for the well-behaved.
Can't wait to find it.


LEL

Generally, only parents stand for their kids. It is in fact more common for school children to be required to preferentially surrender their seat to an adult. I believe the State Transit Authority of New South Wales has this regulation; the STA version requires students on student passes to surrender their seat to all adult/disabled passengers.
Oh okay, its just that in all the places I've lived, the adults usually surrender their seat to a child. I had a free pass too.


I agree that there's a ridiculous sense of entitlement.

Yeah Smile


Yes, yes. There was a guy who had a go at me because I was telling my Mountains mate a story. I've also copped a nasty look or fifteen for bringing a beef curry rice box on board. You get used to it.
Yeahh


There aren't hundreds, but otherwise your testimony seems fairly accurate. I suggest you focus on descriptive writing for English. (This is a serious suggestion.)


nahh, I've topped two schools in English. I only write like this because Im not trying Razz

I so cannot wait to come home and find this mess, if only to verify your claims.

muacks

xx
Watson374
  Muxcomee Station Staff

This I think is the reason for quiet carriages in the first place, used to be you'd get on the train and keep quite (library voice), now anyone having a chat needs to talk loud enough that everyone hears about their "ultra cool lifestyle", I'm not pointing finger at the under 25's only but... well if shoe fits. People need to realise "public transport" means it's open to the public for use, it doesn't give you the right to use the train as your kitchen, bathroom or living room. Perhaps compulsary consideration of others training would be better than more quiet carriages?

Yeah, I agree. But, on the alternative, 'public transport' also means don't expect your trip to be like flying first class.

No you can still use them, what you don't seem to be able to do is shut up. Also travelling next to the guard seems to be redundant due to help points throughout the train.

I just saw it as hypocritical considering that CityRail told us to sit in those cars. We didn't really care, but now its like, no don't in those cars. Just hypocritical i suppose.

It's THAT easy to get free travel? Tell me how. Now I'm a little more understanding of why I've only seen the new generation transits standing at barriers looking at tickets!

No. We do not need to know about how to evade fares. Fare evasion is stealing, and is in no way condoned by Railpage Australia. Also, please quote people properly as your posts are hard to follow.

As for the second part maybe in other parts of the world children and the elderly also pay their own way. Those pesky adults you see not only pay for their own ticket they fund your free and subsidised travel as well as being taxed so the government has the money for a train system so forgive us as working/paying customers for wanting a little silence at each end of a long and difficult day!

And we are forever grateful. Its not so much the taxpayer we are annoyed at, but the government which has implemented this, it smells like a move just to win votes. I mean, do you REALLY need 4 quiet carriages? If it was that necessary, I'm sure you could take the time to walk to either end of the train and get a bit squished in Smile The price of wanting.  
sssshhhh!

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