The Ashes

 
  Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

Location: In a BAM
So with the tour match underway against sussex, and Cowan and hughes making an assured start with the bat (0/132 from 31 overs) And Warner having just made a big score in south africa, I would have the following line up

Watson
Rogers
Warner
Clarke
Hughes
Smith
Haddin
Siddle
Harris
Lyon
Bird

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  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Well the ashes aren't going to come back within our grasp this year but this'd be my side:

Warner
Rogers
Khawaja
Clarke
Smith
Hughes
Haddin
Agar
Siddle
Harris
Bird
  Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

Location: In a BAM
Why Agar?
Sure he did alright with the bat on debut and has not really done anything since. But he is picked as the spinner, but clearly, his return of just 2 wickets at a average of 124.00 is not enough for the front line spinner He should never have been picked ahead of Lyon, who took 9 -right handed wickets in his last test match and one reason for leaving him out was the thought that Agar would be more effective than Lyon to Right handed batsmen, which was clearly wrong.

Now Lyon isn't the best batsmen, but he faced more deliveries than Watson over in India, so he certainly can stick around at the end.
Agar is not yet up to Test quality, where Lyon is, and has been for some time. there is no doubt that Agar has a bright future, but he is simply not ready for Test cricket
I have no doubt that within 3 years, Ashton will prove himself, but the time is certainly not now for him, nor the Australian summer, perhaps after the next world cup will be his time.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Why Agar?
Sure he did alright with the bat on debut and has not really done anything since. But he is picked as the spinner, but clearly, his return of just 2 wickets at a average of 124.00 is not enough for the front line spinner He should never have been picked ahead of Lyon, who took 9 -right handed wickets in his last test match and one reason for leaving him out was the thought that Agar would be more effective than Lyon to Right handed batsmen, which was clearly wrong.

Now Lyon isn't the best batsmen, but he faced more deliveries than Watson over in India, so he certainly can stick around at the end.
Agar is not yet up to Test quality, where Lyon is, and has been for some time. there is no doubt that Agar has a bright future, but he is simply not ready for Test cricket
I have no doubt that within 3 years, Ashton will prove himself, but the time is certainly not now for him, nor the Australian summer, perhaps after the next world cup will be his time.
Jajb94
Report is Lyon struggled in the tour game.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Report is Lyon struggled in the tour game.
bowralcommuter
Report sounds like bollocks

Tour game not over yet.

Lyon 26 overs @ 3.8 an over

Agar 14 overs @ 4.7 an over

1 wicket apiece

Monty pick of the bowlers for the Poms in the first innings Very Happy
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Report sounds like bollocks

Tour game not over yet.

Lyon 26 overs @ 3.8 an over

Agar 14 overs @ 4.7 an over

1 wicket apiece

Monty pick of the bowlers for the Poms in the first innings Very Happy
bingley hall
You have to wonder about the standard of the opposition in those tour games too.  Everyone bar Wade made scores.  And S Smith got a hundred.  Need I say more?

I was a bit disappointed Agar didn't get his hundred, and also thought it was unfortunate he got a few wickets in his first test.  He could have set even more records: not only being the first #11 to make a test century, he might have joined that rare club of players getting a hundred on debut, but a hundred in their *only* game!

He showed at Lords what I think we could reasonably expect from any 19o kid lots of promise, but inexperience leading to soft dismissals and an inability to keep set batters under control.

My likely 11 for the next game:

  1. Watson
  2. Rogers
  3. Hughes
  4. Clarke
  5. Smith
  6. Warner
  7. Haddin
  8. Siddle
  9. Harris
  10. Bird
  11. Lyon

Game 4:

  1. Cowan
  2. Watson
  3. Kwaja
  4. Clarke
  5. Smith
  6. Warner
  7. Haddin
  8. Siddle
  9. Starc
  10. Lyon
  11. Bird

Game 5:

  1. Cowan
  2. Warner
  3. Clarke
  4. Smith
  5. Watson
  6. Wade (vc)
  7. Agar
  8. Harris
  9. Starc
  10. Bird
  11. Lyon

I think that just about gives everyone a run while still dropping everyone bar Clarke and Watson Smile.  It should certainly avoid having any batter play more than 4 consecutive innings in the same position in the order!
  Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

Location: In a BAM

I think that just about gives everyone a run while still dropping everyone bar Clarke and Watson Smile.  It should certainly avoid having any batter play more than 4 consecutive innings in the same position in the order!
djf01
Are you mad? have you no idea what a constantly changing batting order does to the individuals and then overall the team? they never settle as a unit, and never post big innings and seldom win series in that frame of mind. Have you not read that Hughes came out and said that the constantly changing batting order is and I quote "mentally frustrating"
How can anyone learn their job in the team if it changes every game!
Opener - take the shine off the ball and get some runs
Upper order - look to dominate the bowling, don't allow batting collapses and score some runs
Middle order - consolidate and look to exploit the bowlers bad balls, then score some runs
Tail enders - just try to get as many runs as safely as you can

Having played mens cricket last season, opened the batting for the first half, which was good I knew my job day in and day out. then after new years I moved up the grades and was all over the place. Very hard to keep any sort of form, let alone find it when you don't know what to prepare yourself for mentally.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Banned
The last thing anyone should be thinking about is giving everybody a game. This is Test cricket, which means you pick your best team every time.
I entirely agree with Jajb94; a settled batting order is essential.  Interestingly enough, someone who knows a lot more than either of us also agrees. His name is Ian Chappell.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Of note, The "Horses for Courses" Selection's have been Axed. They were Axed when Lehmann took over, So you can forget about that

Kind Regards
  Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

Location: In a BAM
Of note, The "Horses for Courses" Selection's have been Axed. They were Axed when Lehmann took over, So you can forget about that

Kind Regards
lsrailfan
I am not certain on that because of one surprise selection for the first test match.
Nathan Lyon, who had taken 9  Indian wickets in his last test match, all right handers mind you, was left out of the side in favour of Debutant Ashton Agar, and it was said that Agar was more dangerous to right handed batsmen, and bowled something KP has a perceived weakness to. This seems to me to have been a horses for courses decision with our any real substance to support it.

Never the less, in light of the tour match the XI I would play are

Watson
Rogers (but I believe he has been underwhelming in this series so far, and I feel Cowan deserves a 2nd shot in english conditions)
Cowan
Hughes
Clarke
Smith
Haddin
Siddle
Harris
Lyon
Bird
(edited because I tiredly put Warner in the actual XI, a bit of a mistake there Warner out, Rogers into #2, Cowan down to 3, Smith and Clarke swaped)
(Warner 12th man)

I don't feel as though Warners 190 odd in South Africa is a fair comparison to the english conditions likely to be faced. Along side with the fact that it was a FLAT pitch in South Africa, so Old Trafford is not the place for him.
I would be picking and sticking from here on out, these players have the skill and talent to make it and win the ashes, either in england or back home, and they must be given a chance to gel as a team, rather than just a squad
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Banned
Oy !  You can't have Warner at number 6, and 12th man !
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Are you mad?
Jajb94

As an Aussie cricket supporter: absolutely barking!  I'd also read Hughes' comments, and didn't realise he'd batted in every position from #1 to #6 on this tour.  His best result was at #6 in the first test: the best result of *any* Aussie top order batter in the tests.

I am not certain on that because of one surprise selection for the first test match.
Nathan Lyon, who had taken 9  Indian wickets in his last test match, all right handers mind you, was left out of the side in favour of Debutant Ashton Agar, and it was said that Agar was more dangerous to right handed batsmen, and bowled something KP has a perceived weakness to. This seems to me to have been a horses for courses decision with our any real substance to support it.
Jajb94

I think we might have gone back to the idea of trying to unearth the next Shane Warne.

Of course, the real Shane Warne would have gone in and out of this side faster than the Delhi Belly.

Never the less, in light of the tour match the XI I would play are


Watson
Cowan (Rogers has been underwhelming in this series so far, and I feel Cowan deserves a 2nd shot in english conditions)
Jajb94

Our opening partnerships have been the second best performing wicket for us, only bettered by the 10th!

Rogers has made as many 50s as anyone, and *has* looked assured against Anderson and the moving ball.  He's also lead by example as a lefty playing Swann (not always for the better).  And if there is one thing this team needs it's a bit of settled experience and leadership, so I think Rogers should stay.  Cowan is clearly not a #3, and if he's not going to open in the tests, he should be off captaining the Aussie A side (remember, we're going to need a new captain sooner rather than later too).


Hughes
Smith
Jajb94


Smith at #4?  Smith has done OK (no better or worse than any other batter) at #6, helped by the fact he's a right hander against Swann and hasn't had to deal with the swinging new cherry.  So lets throw him out of his depth and let him sink up there eh?  Well, at least you're not doing that to Clarke!


Clarke
Warner
Haddin
Jajb94

This bit I like.


Siddle
Harris
Lyon
Bird
Jajb94

Not enough batting in the tail !!!!

Starc for Harris when he's injured/recovering between tests Smile.  I think our bull-pen highlights another problem with our attack: we've got all the elements of a world beating attack - the trouble is you need to pick 6 bowlers to include all those elements.


(Warner 12th man)

I don't feel as though Warners 190 odd in South Africa is a fair comparison to the english conditions likely to be faced. Along side with the fact that it was a FLAT pitch in South Africa, so Old Trafford is not the place for him.
I would be picking and sticking from here on out, these players have the skill and talent to make it and win the ashes, either in england or back home, and they must be given a chance to gel as a team, rather than just a squad
Jajb94


On this I'm inclined to agree.  I think Warner is really competing with Smith to bat at #6, or maybe Rogers/Cowan to bat at #1.  I noticed he batted at #4 in Sth Africa, so I fear the selectors are looking to plug a hole with him batting out of position too.
  simont141 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide
Why are there five specialist opening batsmen (potentially) in the same batting lineup? Watson, Cowan, Hughes, Warner, Rogers. That's the first problem.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Why are there five specialist opening batsmen (potentially) in the same batting lineup? Watson, Cowan, Hughes, Warner, Rogers. That's the first problem.
simont141
Well that problem is part of a bigger problem in Australian cricket at the moment, a shyte club and domestic system that isn't bringing through much talent.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Banned
As former player and selector John Benaud said recently, we now have third grade players playing first class cricket.
  Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

Location: In a BAM


Not enough batting in the tail !!!!
djf01
So what do we do? Pick 11 batsmen to try and Draw Test matches (at best) or do we pick Bowlers who can take 20 wickets to Win Test matches and risk the chance of not scraping through for a draw?

Simple,
Agar 6/10
was not up to scratch for TEST cricket.
Siddle 9/10
is our first picked every time and rightfully so!
Harris 8.5/10
is absolute Quality and I for one hope he can play out the rest of the back to back series       without missing a Test to injury
Starc 7.5/10
is dangerous to both teams, he can be wayward but is just as much chance of winning test matches
Lyon 7.5/10
is acceptable, takes wickets, learns from mistakes and tries his guts out. (Personally I think Australia havn't won on this tour because Lyon isn't there to sin the team song!)
Pattinson 8.5/10
a quality find, but sadly now injured.
Bird 8/10
A good tidy bowler, keeps one end tight and has very good control.
Faulklner 7/10
Seems a good prospect for the future, Player of the Shield final proves he is good for Big game situations.
  simont141 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide
Since Lyon debuted to the start of the Ashes, he and Siddle had taken the same number of wickets - 76. Next best is Hilfenhaus on 44, then Pattinson on 40. He had also played 22 games in that time, one shy of Clarke's 23. He was also coming off taking 9 wickets in the last test he played, including a 7 for, only a few months ago. Why was he dropped again?

And why is Watson still playing? How come he isn't being held to the sword by the media and fans, as were Clarke, Ponting, Hussey, et al. after far briefer bad patches? At least those latter names have led by example, proven themselves, and bounced back from bad patches. Watson has not been close to achieving any one of those.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

And why is Watson still playing? How come he isn't being held to the sword by the media and fans, as were Clarke, Ponting, Hussey, et al. after far briefer bad patches? At least those latter names have led by example, proven themselves, and bounced back from bad patches. Watson has not been close to achieving any one of those.
simont141

I think you'll find it's for the same reason Warner was first picked to play for Australia:
- These guys are the best 20/20 players in the world
- They command high salaries in the IPL
- As players contracted to CA, CA gets a cut of those earnings.
If those guys weren't dangled the carrot of playing test cricket, there is no way they'd sign a CA contract.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Well it has happened again, another Dodgy DRS Decision, Seriously the Third Umpire needs a good kick up the backside for missing such an Important Decision, Usman did not hit the ball, Why do we even have the DRS, It achieves nothing in my view, Except to waste time
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
An absolute f**king shocker.  Is Aleem Derr the 3rd umpire??   Time to have TV technician in with the 3rd umpire to tell him what he is looking at.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
rogers looking solid.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
300/3, at last I can say well played Australia!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
we may have a series on our hands or am i being too presumptous?
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
we may have a series on our hands or am i being too presumptous?
bevans

Very presumptous, we will not win the ashes, simple as that. Firstly we have to bat well in the 2nd innings which is no guarantee at all and I'm certain more batting collapses are to come for us in the remainder of this test series.
  simont141 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide
Enjoyed watching Rogers bat. Looked like he was channelling Langer in that knock. Unfortunately fell asleep before Clarke got going!

I think DRS is fine - it's just the people using it that are the problem.

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