Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
One thing is for sure, the newer more visible layout is a huge improvement in terms of security. The seats might as well have not even existed on the old one because they were always soaked in urine (from vandals, but these days you'd assume it was from seniors card free interpeak joyriders) and it's a lot more visible now it's closer to the road and doesn't have a dingy underpass as the main access route from the bulk of the parking.
justapassenger
A gratuitous insult, maybe resulting from the low standards of conduct of today's cretinous neanderthals being applied to the better educated and better brought up people of the past who managed to build a beautiful city, a state which led the world in many reforms and a large railway system with daily trains to far flung places like our neighbouring extreme outer south-eastern suburb from which I fled to live once again in this Paradise on Earth. May your prostate give you hell!  Laughing

That mild and gracious reproof off my chest, I saw the under-grounding of signal wiring between Warradale and Oaklands proceeding yesterday as I travelled between the two on my geriatric- mobile, and also that all the steelwork at Oaklands save a couple of the bridging beams was erected. The old signal gantry will surely follow shortly. it is far too low to remain.

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  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

While we are on the subject of clearances issues how would a pantograph and electric train clear under the Anzac Highway bridge? There is little room even for the train so how would the pantograph get under there too?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

A gratuitous insult, maybe resulting from the low standards of conduct ...
SAR526
Your eyes might be failing you, I was talking about low standards of continence and not conduct Razz

I'll be gracious instead of gratuitous in this post, and let the issue of seniors' conduct on public transport remain as an unopened can of worms. Unless of course you are the old codger who I refused a seat yesterday afternoon after evading the fare, setting a great example for younger generations.

While we are on the subject of clearances issues how would a pantograph and electric train clear under the Anzac Highway bridge? There is little room even for the train so how would the pantograph get under there too?
Milkomeda
I believe that the track through the underpass was rebuilt at a lower level than it was before. It's certainly tall enough for the pantograph to get through if it's compressed a fair way down, but I do think that underpass would be better served by a rigid conductor rail instead of a wire.

The new EMUs' height of 4010mm (source DPTI fact sheet) is actually lower than the Jumbos' height of 4270mm (source RailSA via Google) so there shouldn't be a problem.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Unless of course you are the old codger who I refused a seat yesterday afternoon after evading the fare, setting a great example for younger generations.
"justapassenger"
I do that too!
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Your eyes might be failing you, I was talking about low standards of continence and not conduct P

Which, if you live long enough, will happen to you. You are applying to a whole group of people a standard of conduct, which I am sure you would deny would ever apply to you. I sometimes have to find a convenient bush, but I wouldn't dream of urinating in subways or shelters.

Of course there are no younger obnoxious drunks doing such things or taking up the emergency wards of hospitals to the detriment of people in genuine need are there? It's obvious that the stinking lanes off Hindley Street and the muggings and king hits are obviously the work of cavorting drugged-to-the-eyeballs geriatrics, and retired people are currently committing legal acts of vandalism by covering our trams and obscuring their windows with hideous advertisements, while it is sneaky oldies, not young antisocial creeps, scratching the windows or ripping the seats, isn't it?

Well my generation had very little vandalism, almost no graffiti and trams proudly wearing spotless livery. Please don't say that my memory is selective. It is very good thank you. Take a look at the thousands of photographs of the streets and vehicles of the past and see if you can find anything to gainsay what I have said.

To put it simply, be a little careful of applying generalizations.

To bring it back to urinating in stations, in the past they almost all had toilets and were attended. At the very least, they should have the automatic self-cleaning ones that have been installed at a very few. Even healthy young people can be caught short sometimes.
justapassenger

I'll be gracious instead of gratuitous in this post, and let the issue of seniors' conduct on public transport remain as an unopened can of worms. Unless of course you are the old codger who I refused a seat yesterday afternoon after evading the fare, setting a great example for younger generations.

One exception to blacken a whole group of people! If I said that today's young people were all ignorant, ill-behaved Goths and Vandals, you would rightly accuse me of an unsustainable generalization. Far too many are just that, but there are also wonderful members of the human race among them.  Nevertheless I am just one of very many people who have had the personal experience of the past which you don't who would say that the proportion of ill behaved youths is higher today. I am sure that we weren't born intrinsically better, but we were taught to be frightened of the consequences of doing wrong and consequently developed habits of behaving ourselves.  It's when people who had the task of teaching those lessons, such as police and teachers, had their effective disciplinary measures removed that the rot set in. I might just know a little more than you in this respect and been in a position helplessly to watch the progressive deterioration in standards ever since.

Yes some old people are thoroughly obnoxious. Some middle aged and young people are obnoxious too. But most of us are just ordinary human beings doing their best to live good, honest, loving lives, and even aspiring to leave the world just a little better than we have found it.

Finally, my eyesight is fine thank you, with the ability to read fonts less than 1mm high.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
I do that too!
Aaron
Are you sure that you refuse a seat in the sections reserved by law for the preferential use of disabled and elderly people only to fare-evaders?

If so, I can understand your choice of conduct.  If you don't know beyond doubt that they have not validated their Metro card, then you are just plain selfish and a law-breaker.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Are you sure that you refuse a seat in the sections reserved by law for the preferential use of disabled and elderly people only to fare-evaders?

If so, I can understand your choice of conduct.  If you don't know beyond doubt that they have not validated their Metro card, then you are just plain selfish and a law-breaker.
SAR526
Speaking for myself and not Aaron, if we're going to get pedantic then I do have what is considered to be a disability so I have every right to sit in the priority seats. I also have every right to refuse to yield my seat if some other person rudely demands it or does something else to annoy me - which includes demanding that particular seat when there are plenty of other seats available or stealing from me and other honest passengers.

You're wrong about the "reserved by law" bit though, there is no notice that penalties may apply on the stickers above the red seats. Unless you can link to legislation which specifically gives those stickers the force of law you're just blowing smoke and, by calling a fellow forum member a law-breaker, committing an act of libel.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
While we are on the subject of clearances issues how would a pantograph and electric train clear under the Anzac Highway bridge? There is little room even for the train so how would the pantograph get under there too?
Milkomeda
Presumably places like this will be the reason why 2000's won't be permitted to run on the new line, even with a lowered track.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Are you sure that you refuse a seat in the sections reserved by law for the preferential use of disabled and elderly people only to fare-evaders?
"SAR526"
My response was to Justapax's statement, if he made some mention or inference to doing this in a disability priority seat, (which I seem to have missed), then I apologies for linking myself to a behaviour that I am not sure I'd support. I do not as a rule (probably have never - aside from travelling with my grandmother when younger) sit in the disability priority seats.

If so, I can understand your choice of conduct.  If you don't know beyond doubt that they have not validated their Metro card, then you are just plain selfish and a law-breaker.
"SAR526"
Refusing a seat to someone on the basis of their not paying a fare might make me selfish, but anyone's right to a seat on PT is not enshrined in law. It might be in the world of morality, but residing in that same moral space is paying (as I do) for the service. Fare evaders denied a seat by me (or anyone else are not morally in front of us), and in the eyes of the real law, they are quite some distance behind.

The most recent instance of this for me, saw me sitting sufficiently close to the validator (but in no one's priority seat) to note the lack of validation. Believe me, I am a defense lawyer at heart, I do not take effectively accusing someone of a crime lightly.

If you recall, I think I posted something similar to this recently, when I stated one of my pet hates is OAPs catching peak services but electing not to validate until the time has clicked over to interpeak to get a free ride. In that case, we all had to stand, it being a peak service and crowded, so I wasn't denying someone a seat, but I did tell the driver when he queried me using my ticket that 'I wouldn't be validating my ticket until such time as he made the OAPs validate'. This Mexican standoff (soft bus driver) sort of self resolved itself when I got to my connecting service and cheerfully validated on boarding there along with everyone else.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Presumably places like this will be the reason why 2000's won't be permitted to run on the new line, even with a lowered track.
"don_dunstan"
The 2000s are precluded strictly on the basis of safety surrounding the construction of the cab and the interactions between it and the overhead wire should it for whatever reason fall from it's mounting.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
The 2000s are precluded strictly on the basis of safety surrounding the construction of the cab and the interactions between it and the overhead wire should it for whatever reason fall from it's mounting.
Aaron
The cab roof/sides are basically a fibreglass shell with some steel box section for a basic frame in the corners. The side windows are aluminium and not earthed to anything, the risk of arc over is rather high. Should a live cable fall on it, I'd expect damage or even fire to result, fibreglass burns really well and is hard to put out.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Thank you for your full and reasoned reply Aaron. I have no issue with your comments.

justapassenger: You may not realize that posing a hypothetical situation and commenting on it is not a libel. It is an opinion. You are on very shaky ground if you believe that failure to obey a sign on government property, put there by those charged with the control of that property under the authority of a Minister of the Crown is not a breach of the law. The fact that it is couched in terms of a request by using the word 'please' in no way negates its force as an instruction. Further, the use of the word MUST in relation to making room for wheelchair, walker and mobility scooter users is unequivocal. That is a peremptory command.

The fact that a requirement is rarely enforced doesn't mean that it cannot be. I was once legally moved on in Rundle Street by an overzealous policeman because I stopped and bent down to tie a loose shoelace. It is illegal to enter and remain upon a railway station platform unless you have the intention of travelling. That is rarely enforced because of the difficulty of proving that you had no such intention until you had deliberately missed a train which went to your (supposed) destination, but it is still the law, and can be used against vandals and other malingerers.

I never assert my 'rights' to a seat or mobility appliance space when travelling, but am grateful to the great majority of passengers who graciously offer their seats or to help me in some way. I try to avoid travelling at peak times because I realize that others have more need for travel then than I do. Most of my generation do likewise.

What I objected to is the manner in which you denigrated a whole section of society because of the obnoxious behaviour of a relative few. Our insistence upon our rights needs to be balanced by a realization of our obligations if we are collectively to enjoy a free and morally sound society. I am sure that you would agree with this, so perhaps we can now leave this topic.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The cab roof/sides are basically a fibreglass shell with some steel box section for a basic frame in the corners. The side windows are aluminium and not earthed to anything, the risk of arc over is rather high. Should a live cable fall on it, I'd expect damage or even fire to result, fibreglass burns really well and is hard to put out.
fabricator
This has been discussed quite a bit on a now-defunct thread specifically relating to the use of 2000's under 25kv lines and there wasn't a definitive answer; the extra 27cm of height the 2000 cabs have was thought by one poster to put it at risk of arcing where the line is lower (such as under bridges) but as Aaron said the danger of catenary falling onto the cab seems a more likely scenario.  It was agreed on the other thread that the 2000's could probably be modified to manage the risk; a metal earth plate could probably be attached to the cab, but whether or not it's worth doing that for the short amount of time left for these units is another issue.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Justapassenger you will be old one day and some young upstart will be saying the same on the internet of the future about you. Food for thought there. We are all getting older mate , yes even you.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Is there any news from local correspondents about extension of the wires any further through to Adelaide station?  I was also wondering if the new Goodwood underpass had been up to the testing stage yet, it seems to have been quite a while since we've heard anything about that.

Justapassenger you will be old one day and some young upstart will be saying the same on the internet of the future about you. Food for thought there. We are all getting older mate , yes even you.
David Peters

Without deliberately taking this thread off course, I just wanted to reflect on this.  It's funny how when you are young there are these crazy notions that your life will go on forever and that you'll never need things like medications, hip replacements or mobility scooters.  I'm not quite there yet myself but I know that it's an inevitability - a close friend with substantial health issues, who I've known for decades, recently confided to me that he would rather kill himself than go into a nursing home.  I was quite shocked and saddened when he said that.  Thankfully his wonderful wife helps him to stay independent but I fully understand where he's coming from with that one; it's a depressing reality that unless you die young or middle aged you'll have to face these issues yourself in time.

Maybe it will be you delaying the train with your mobility scooter!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Is there any news from local correspondents about extension of the wires any further through to Adelaide station?  I was also wondering if the new Goodwood underpass had been up to the testing stage yet, it seems to have been quite a while since we've heard anything about that.
"don_dunstan"
No wires there yet, the overhead has not got to anywhere near it yet.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
As of yesterday, contact wires have been run out but not permanently attached in the centre road at Brighton.  The up road through Brighton looks ready to receive contact wire.  Cantenary wire is now run out from Hallett Cove to Cove Road on up line.  Earth and return conductors now extend from Jetty Rd, Brighton right through to Columbia Cres, the northern limit of the Seaford - Lonsdale energised section.  Steel masts are currently being erected between Woodlands and Tonsley Jn., where the concrete footings were recently poured.  Sectioning switches in ground cabinets have appeared at Warradale, Marion, Raglan Ave and Keswick Bridge.

Signalling is progressing gradually. All LED heads are illuminated from Fairfax Ave, Millswood to Woodlands, except for 632 on the up line which as previously suggested received an A plate to protect movements at Goodwood Station.  The cabling contractors were working yesterday in a new lineside cabinet at Tonsley Jn beside the old relay room.  The down junction signal at Tonsley Jn has a new head.

Alex C
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I saw electrification work being undertaken today at Hallet Cove and Hallet Cove Beach station I saw workers putting up metal arms for the wires directly through the stations via its roof and portal structures are being erected now through Woodlands Park station.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Thanks for those detailed responses - I guess Adelaide Station will be the last part of the catenary to be completed prior to full length running of the 4000's?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Thanks for those detailed responses - I guess Adelaide Station will be the last part of the catenary to be completed prior to full length running of the 4000's?
"don_dunstan"
My guess is that will be correct.

There are rumours of Adelaide being closed for January again to complete that work, which presumably would include the last of the wiring, replacement of the signalling and possibly even the removal of the last trackwork which originally led towards the old depot which has hung around like a bad smell.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Thanks for those detailed responses - I guess Adelaide Station will be the last part of the catenary to be completed prior to full length running of the 4000's?
don_dunstan
That would seem to be a reasonable guess, not much electrifying it if they can't get there.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Another system shut down. Grrr!

Here is the state looking for Federal funding for a system that is so vital to the state that it can be shut down for a month or a rail route so fundamental to the system that we can do without it for 9 months.

Hardly a demonstration of its importance to the nation!

I have heard all the reasons, but then I have been told that the Contractor works at night. Certainly, months ago on a stormy night I saw the Contractor work even though the track was not in use.

I know I sound like a whinger but look at the logic above.
The wrong messages are being sent to both the SA public and to the people with the purse. (Let's not forget that ultimately they are one and the same)
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
If the Kiwis can electrify the Auckland system and still run trains then so can we.

Work happens when trains don't run, with a means of running the odd train through the work if required.

The DPTI has the minister who should be on the traveller's side, house-trained.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Where is Mark Parnell when youy need him?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Where is Mark Parnell when youy need him?
"steam4ian"
It was discovered on Gruen Nation a couple of weeks ago that he was last seen playing his accordion -

http://www.youtube.com/user/GreensMPsSA

Very Happy

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