2013 Federal Election - 7th September

 
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Who is Stirling Grif? I'm aware that Nick X has had running mates before but wasn't there a big falling out with the last one because she got stuck with campaign costs (or something)?

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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Just as a postscript to the last comment I've since discovered what's going on with the Senate and it's apparent that Nick X is unlikely get his second quota due to Labor and the Greens preferences going away from him (which of course he's very upset about).  It's going to be a very diverse Senate though, that's for sure.  Tony will need to summon all his negotiating skills to deal with them all - if he can't be bothered there's always the option of a double-dissolution but that could also work against him if he goes back to the polls too soon... people won't want to think about politicians and voting again too soon.

And Clive Palmer going nuts at a journalist already telling them to bugger off, too funny.  Anyone would think he didn't get the outcome he wanted whereas for a first try it actually went very well.
  wurx Lithgovian Ambassador-at-Large

Location: The mystical lost principality of Daptovia
One lot of turkeys out, a fresh lot in - the more things change, the more they stay the same Neutral
  jdennis Junior Train Controller

And yes, I'm really disappointed that we're going back to the Johnny Howard days of building more and more toll-ways every where, as a frequent user of public transport I feel that we're going in the wrong direction on this particularly given our major cities are groaning under the weight of extra thousands every single day and we can't all drive cars, it's just not feasible.
"don_dunstan"

I totally agree with you, building freeways just creates more congestion. Firstly because once the cars leave the freeway, they need somewhere to go, and this is largely where congestion is caused. Building more freeways will just increase the rate at which this traffic flows into smaller roads, and increase the total number of cars on our roads, both of which will just cause the whole thing to slow down.

Not only this, but what are we planning on doing when petrol becomes so expensive it's not feasible to drive anymore? Without a sensible approach to investment in public transport, we a just setting ourselves up for very difficult and costly times in the future (the same goes for renewable energy).

It's time the major parties thought a little bit further ahead than the next three years and how they will stop the boats. There will be no economy to manage if we don't have a planet to live on.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Ah well; as some wiseacre said, "Voting Liberal because you don't like Labor is the same as eating sh1t because you don't like spinach."
Valvegear
Except in the latter case there are viable alternatives. Name one government on this entire planet that actually works and that everyone is happy with, (bet you can't).
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Knives already out as Labor bleeds


Blame game: Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and his wife Therese Rein leave their home in Brisbane. Photo: Harrison Saragossi


In a sign of bloodletting to come, only an hour before Kevin Rudd announced he would not contest the Labor leadership, Home Affairs Minster Jason Clare called on the Prime Minister to quit as leader for the good of the party.
Mr Clare, who switched his support from Julia Gillard to Mr Rudd in the final weeks leading up to the June leadership coup, said it was "time for generational change".
"We need to put the Rudd and the Gillard era behind us," Mr Clare, who will retain his western Sydney seat of Blaxland, told Channel Ten. "We've got to listen to what people have said. They've thrown us out tonight. They've said they don't want us to run the country."


In the spotlight: George Wright has been blamed for Labor's poor result. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen


Describing Labor's leadership turmoil as a "dance of death between Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd", Mr Clare declared it was up to "people like me" to build the basis of a new government and "earn the people of Australia's respect".
His comments came as recriminations began inside the Labor Party, with outgoing Northern Territory senator Trish Crossin calling for the head of national secretary and campaign director George Wright.
The veteran senator, whose career ended when Ms Gillard exercised her "captain's pick" to replace her with Nova Peris, took to Twitter before polls closed, declaring: "If we see a massive defeat tonight then George Wright has to go."


While Mr Wright's position will be the target of criticism, much of the post-campaign focus will be on the extent to which Mr Rudd dictated election strategy and tactics, and refused to take advice from campaign headquarters.
Former power broker-turned commentator Graham Richardson branded the Labor campaign a "disaster", saying Mr Wright was competent, but lacked the strength or "oomph" to "get over someone like Kevin Rudd, let alone a Julia Gillard".
Mr Rudd stands accused of a series of misjudgments, including proposing the "a new way" slogan for the campaign that prompted Opposition Leader to Tony Abbott retort: "The only way to have a 'new way' is to choose a new government."
The recruitment of former Queensland premier Peter Beattie to contest a Coalition-held seat in Brisbane is seen as another example, with Mr Beattie conceding early in the count that he faced a "bloody difficult" task to win.
Bill Shorten, the clear front-runner to become the next Labor leader, has refused to be drawn on whether he wants the job of rebuilding the Labor brand after the defeat.
"I will not entertain discussion about Coalition success," Mr Shorten said, amid heightened speculation that he will assume the leadership as early as next week.
Having lost the campaign, the election and good deal of talent, Labor faces the massive task of rebuilding and reconnecting with an electorate that has punished it for being unstable and divided.
Along with deputy leader, Anthony Albanese, Mr Shorten was one of Labor's better performers during a campaign that saw the party go backwards in the polls over the five weeks.
Labor insiders say their only hope out of a dismal election is that the party can draw a line under three years in which Mr Rudd was torn down and then return to the job after Ms Gillard suffered the same fate.
Health Minister Tanya Plibersek is normally one of the more reserved Labor ministers but she has given Labor zero marks for its disunity.
"I'm really proud of what we achieved in the government ... I think you have to acknowledge that the division that we've seen has been disastrous," she told ABC TV.
"I would give us 9/10 for governing the country. I'd give us 0/10 for governing ourselves.
"I think it's pretty plain we had too many people playing their own games and not playing for the team."
Ms Plibersek would not "point fingers" about who was to blame here.
When asked if Mr Rudd should stand down, she said these were matters for "next week or the week after".
"I think the clear takeout from this defeat is disunity is death," she said.
Surprisingly, Ms Plibersek also added: "I think we would have won the 2007 election with Kim Beazley."


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/knives-already-out-as-labor-bleeds-20130907-2tcaa.html#ixzz2eI46ffB9
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
Notice that none of the survivors of the labor train wreck are putting their hands up to be the new leader, yep its too hard a job aint it.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

So Abbott, when are you going to turn the Asylum Seeker/illegal migrant boat around that arrived today, under YOUR (repeat YOUR) watch?

Remember he promised to turn them around and send them back to Indonesia.

The Liberals will no longer publish when these boats arrive.
Hmm, wonder what they've got to hide, don't want to tell us how many boats he was not successful in turning around, or whatever??

Add changing industrial relations, something about pleasing the extreme right of the Liberals.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

Also I noticed in the papers today that Abbott intends to abolish the Charities Commission - the only piece of oversight that charities really have to fulfil.  That really rings alarm bells for me.  Not so much with organisations like the Catholic Church but there are some other, really dodgey charities out there - I've had professional dealings with many of them - and they badly need the Tax Office to keep watch over their activities.  Abolishing the Charities Commission is really bad news.  Then again maybe it's not... I've been thinking about setting up my own charity for a long time and maybe that's my cue!
don_dunstan

Does Abolition of Charities Commission require an Act of Parliament; this would be difficult as Abbott doesn't have control of Senate.

Perhaps this proposal is only a bargaining chip.

Are there any well-run charities?

Also, Consumer Affairs in NSW also does a good job protecting us from adulerated foods, and dangerous toys, etc.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Does Abolition of Charities Commission require an Act of Parliament; this would be difficult as Abbott doesn't have control of Senate.

Perhaps this proposal is only a bargaining chip.

Are there any well-run charities?

Also, Consumer Affairs in NSW also does a good job protecting us from adulerated foods, and dangerous toys, etc.
awsgc24

You raise some really good points there, this is where steering things through the Senate is probably a good thing because the 'unrepresentative swill' often get it right when they reject bills; hopefully it will require an act.  I did hear Abbott say today that he has a mandate and the Senate should do his will but in reality when they modify or send back legislation it's acting exactly how the Federation fathers intended - as a house of review keeping tabs on things.  Anyway not many governments in the past have had complete control of both houses so Abbott either has to work with what he's got or try again with a double-dissolution.

On the point of what defines a well-run charity, I feel that many of the larger ones are quite open and accountable but some of them, such as fringe 'churches' and certain not-for-profits can be a bit dodgey in my opinion.  For example, I once knew a not-for-profit that was really good at getting government grants and private bequests but at least in once instance I know of they spent a sizeable private bequest set aside for a special client project on recurrent staff wages instead - very naughty.  More incompetent than deliberately corrupt but nevertheless, the people who run these things get really generous packages as well as tax-free lurks so they should be more responsible.

There are also certain churches that in my opinion shouldn't be getting charity status because they force parishioners to stop associating with people who've left, breaking up families and causing suicides.  There should be rules about 'do no harm' before you can get tax-free status, there's no way that sort of malicious behaviour should be endorsed by granting charity status.  As you say Consumer Affairs protects people so the Commonwealth should also make an effort by at least ensuring these crumbs don't get tax-free benefits.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I totally agree with you, building freeways just creates more congestion. Firstly because once the cars leave the freeway, they need somewhere to go, and this is largely where congestion is caused. Building more freeways will just increase the rate at which this traffic flows into smaller roads, and increase the total number of cars on our roads, both of which will just cause the whole thing to slow down.

Not only this, but what are we planning on doing when petrol becomes so expensive it's not feasible to drive anymore? Without a sensible approach to investment in public transport, we a just setting ourselves up for very difficult and costly times in the future (the same goes for renewable energy).

It's time the major parties thought a little bit further ahead than the next three years and how they will stop the boats. There will be no economy to manage if we don't have a planet to live on.
jdennis
No argument from me on any of that - it's not the nineteen fifties any more, if we want to aspire to have our major cities operating efficiently then there needs to be a balance between private cars and public transport.  Even Los Angeles is building a new light rail network... how embarrassing that we're still going in the opposite direction.  Hopefully Malcolm Turnbull can be a voice for reason in cabinet.
  Ballast_Plough Chief Commissioner

Location: Lilydale, Vic
So Abbott, when are you going to turn the Asylum Seeker/illegal migrant boat around that arrived today, under YOUR (repeat YOUR) watch?

Remember he promised to turn them around and send them back to Indonesia.

The Liberals will no longer publish when these boats arrive.
Hmm, wonder what they've got to hide, don't want to tell us how many boats he was not successful in turning around, or whatever??

Add changing industrial relations, something about pleasing the extreme right of the Liberals.
Newcastle Express

I think you'll find he's Prime Minister Elect until sworn in??

And neither government has been publishing when the boats arrive - the news services do that!!!
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
 A hostile senate, or at least one not fully aligned to the Liberal Party, is a relief because it acts as Parkes et al intended and stops anyone in power from going too nutty and passing a radical legislative agenda.  I was especially glad to hear about Clive Palmer and the possibility of not only his lower house seat but a senate seat as well; it was also good that Adam Bandt won his seat back - regardless of what you think about the minor parties it's a good thing that we have more representation and diversity in both houses.  I don't understand the popularity of Xenephon but it's also good that he's there too - perhaps his presence can act as a stopgap against the winding back of pokies reforms
Don_dunstan

In my opinion, the senate is an absolute waste of time.  Why elect a Government when it can't pass legislation? - it is counter productive and an exercise in futility.  It is just a spin off from the days in Britain when the Lords ruled supreme and had the final say because of their status and privilege.

And it is being increasingly by fruitcakes of all persuasions so they can implement their own agendas; I know people say it is for checks and balances but if people don't like what a Government stands for well that is what elections are for; leave it up to the people to decide - not the whacky Senators.  And as for preferential voting - don't get me started on that one.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
And neither government has been publishing when the boats arrive - the news services do that!!!
"Ballast_Plough"

Yes, mainly News Corp. media, funnily enough.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Putting the moderator hat on for a minute:

It's time that the petty remarks towards each other, and the general bitchiness stops. We're not doing ourselves any good by trying to tear each other apart for the sake of bolstering our own egos - we're all in this together, for better or worse.

Perhaps the people who voted for the Liberal Coalition might like to show a bit of good sportsmanship towards those with opposing political views, and stop with the arrogant gloating. Likewise those who didn't vote for the Coalition might like to stop whinging about the loss, and stop trying to take the moral high ground. The election is over now, and the deal has been done whether we like it or not. I know I have been guilty of the above, and I'll admit it too.

There are interesting times ahead, and I'm sure that everyone here would like to discuss or debate them as they unfold. It's not going to happen if people can't take note of the above request, as I will have to lock the thread. If you find yourself getting a bit hot under the collar with someone; then turn to computer off, and come back when you've cooled down with a clearer mind.

Ta.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Also, Consumer Affairs in NSW also does a good job protecting us from adulerated foods
"awsgc24"
Hmmm, I wouldn't be so confident of that...
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
It's funny how only the Liberal supporters complain about the senate, we never heard Labour people complaining about the balance of power depending on greens and independents.

If anything it's the lower house that needs a rethink, just what is the point of a party like say the greens getting an average 10% of the vote nation wide, but not getting a seat anywhere unless like the seat of Melbourne they got a lot of votes. Then there are things like governments getting into power despite getting less than 50% of the vote nation wide, due to the way lower house seats are won and lost.

Given the huge number of greens in the senate, not to mention the independents, any claims of a mandate for scrapping environmental projects like actually pricing carbon, or putting roads ahead of metro rail is an absolute lie.

I was looking at the hundreds of concrete poles around my area for the Gawler line electric trains and wondering, just what the hell is wrong with a government that they would leave those there unused for 3 years or more. Just when train service I paid taxes towards actually going to function ?

The Liberals won, be we all lost, of course some will take years to realise this.
The careful consideration of what projects are best for the long term good of the country is gone, replaced with sheer bloody mindedness of my way or the highway.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
...
Putting the moderator hat on for a minute:

It's time that the petty remarks towards each other, and the general bitchiness stops. We're not doing ourselves any good by trying to tear each other apart for the sake of bolstering our own egos - we're all in this together, for better or worse.

...
Barrington Womble

Good point BW. It's only politics. Shocked

There's been a tendency for someone to put the boot in and then the me too lot line up for a go. It's becoming predictable and could be considered as bullying.
This is not going to be a Lib or Labor free site (let alone Green, Socialist Worker or any other leaning) Rolling Eyes

You may disagree with what someone says but you need to respect their right to say it. Exclamation
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
So far we've had at least three re-elected Labor MHR's ( Shorten, Smith and Clare ) all saying that Rudd should now resign from Parliament. This seems to be the norm these days, and is ridiculous.
What these nongs need to bear in mind is that Rudd is elected to represent the people of the Griffith electorate, and there is no earthly reason why he can't do just that. There is no logical reason for Rudd to quit simply because (a) he is no longer Prime Minister or (b) that he has stood down as Labor leader.
In my opinion, any member of parliament in Rudd's situation should feel free to immediately resign from Parliament, provided that he pays the full cost of the by-election which follows. The taxpayer certainly should not be saddled with the cost.
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

So far we've had at least three re-elected Labor MHR's ( Shorten, Smith and Clare ) all saying that Rudd should now resign from Parliament. This seems to be the norm these days, and is ridiculous.
What these nongs need to bear in mind is that Rudd is elected to represent the people of the Griffith electorate, and there is no earthly reason why he can't do just that. There is no logical reason for Rudd to quit simply because (a) he is no longer Prime Minister or (b) that he has stood down as Labor leader.
In my opinion, any member of parliament in Rudd's situation should feel free to immediately resign from Parliament, provided that he pays the full cost of the by-election which follows. The taxpayer certainly should not be saddled with the cost.
Valvegear
I agree with you about the by-election costs. but if you look at Rudds history, they have pretty valid reasons for wanting him gone.

From the time he first entered Parliament, he has white anted someone. Obviously there is a more than reasonable concern that he will start the whole process again.

That is why i think they want him gone. A by election would certainly be interesting.

Craig W
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I was looking at the hundreds of concrete poles around my area for the Gawler line electric trains and wondering, just what the hell is wrong with a government that they would leave those there unused for 3 years or more. Just when train service I paid taxes towards actually going to function ?

The Liberals won, be we all lost, of course some will take years to realise this.
The careful consideration of what projects are best for the long term good of the country is gone, replaced with sheer bloody mindedness of my way or the highway.
"fabricator"
You could do much worse than to recall that the funding for the Gawler line was canned when two LABOR Governments ran out of money, presumably because their policies were correctly costed and funded...

Given the huge number of greens in the senate, not to mention the independents, any claims of a mandate for scrapping environmental projects like actually pricing carbon, or putting roads ahead of metro rail is an absolute lie.
"fabricator"
Given the Greens vote has slumped by 25% I think there's quite some claim to calling their presence an aberration.

If 4 Green senators is huge, then 17 must just about be infinite.

If doesn't matter, it looks fairly likely the numbers are in both houses to take the carbon tax down, and that's before you consider that Labor AGAIN went to an election saying the carbon tax was a bad idea and a mistake...

And, like your statements on Senator Nick, you struggle with the definition of independants, there are none in the senate, they ALL belong to a party, even Senator Nick.
  simont141 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide
ABC reporting ALP to get 87 seats, Coalition 98, and Katter, Palmer, Wilkie and Bandt making up the last four spots. Still 24% of the vote to count, so still room for changes.

Senate is a different story with some strange things happening on account of preferences. 33 senate spots to Coalition (16 continuing), 24 to ALP (13 continuing), 10 Green (6 continuing), Democratic Labor Party 1 (continuing), Liberal Democratic Party 1, Palmer United 2, Xenophon 1, Family First 1, Australian Motoring Enthusiasts 1, Australian Sports Party 1.

Liberal Democratic Party benefiting from the first spot on Senate papers.

Labor primary vote lowest in 100 years. Greens vote losing a quarter on last election.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I agree with you about the by-election costs. but if you look at Rudds history, they have pretty valid reasons for wanting him gone.
From the time he first entered Parliament, he has white anted someone. Obviously there is a more than reasonable concern that he will start the whole process again.
That is why I think they want him gone. A by election would certainly be interesting.
"CraigW"

It's simple - if they don't want him, don't endorse him as a candidate for the election.
The other thing that fascinates me is the double standard. It was wrong for Rudd to white ant someone, but apparently perfectly OK for Julia Gillard to do it.
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

It's simple - if they don't want him, don't endorse him as a candidate for the election.
The other thing that fascinates me is the double standard. It was wrong for Rudd to white ant someone, but apparently perfectly OK for Julia Gillard to do it.
Valvegear

I do not disagree with you at all Valvegear.

The problem with Rudd is that he has white anted people from the start of his career (Laurie Brereton was the first). While he was a winner they were prepared to overlook this because they wanted to win (duh). I am not so naive as to think that JG was not agitating against KR in 2009-2010. The story that she just decided to challenge simply does not stack up.

The thing is that she walked away, and i have to say conducted herself with a great deal of dignity from the moment she was replaced.

The thinking is that KR may say he is done,but get bored with being a back bencher in 12 months and start playing games again. All he would do this time is make a terrible mess, I really cannot imagine him rising again - the charisma he had with the public really has worn off.

I am a coalition voter so i have no brief for either of them, just giving my thoughts as a political tragic !

Craig W
  br30453 Chief Train Controller

So far we've had at least three re-elected Labor MHR's ( Shorten, Smith and Clare ) all saying that Rudd should now resign from Parliament. This seems to be the norm these days, and is ridiculous.
What these nongs need to bear in mind is that Rudd is elected to represent the people of the Griffith electorate, and there is no earthly reason why he can't do just that. There is no logical reason for Rudd to quit simply because (a) he is no longer Prime Minister or (b) that he has stood down as Labor leader.
In my opinion, any member of parliament in Rudd's situation should feel free to immediately resign from Parliament, provided that he pays the full cost of the by-election which follows. The taxpayer certainly should not be saddled with the cost.
Valvegear

Or save the cost of a by-election by replacing them with the person who gained the next higher number of votes at the previous election.
That would make them think twice about resigning.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
...
In my opinion, any member of parliament in Rudd's situation should feel free to immediately resign from Parliament, provided that he pays the full cost of the by-election which follows. The taxpayer certainly should not be saddled with the cost.
Valvegear

Hardly unusual for MPs from the ex government side quitting shortly after the election. Perhaps in the case of the PM, they should be allowed to step down and replaced with a nominee from that party just like a senate vacancy Idea

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