Some questions about Harris and Taits

 
  896T Beginner

I think enough has been said about the demise of the Harris trains, the scrapped ones were obviously in a bad way by the end. However what is the fate of the ones converted to V/Line trailers. On few trips to Ballarat recently, I notice that there are fewer in service as they are phased out by the new Vlocity sets. Are there plans to save and restore a couple of these to build a complete set within the Greaser?

Also are there plans to rescue the Tait that is in the Sunshine Roofing Tile Co. in Albion on Ballarat Road? I hadn't looked at it for a decade, and made the effort to go that way a couple of weeks ago. It's mostly still in tact, but there is recent vandalism on the East side with a couple of smashed windows and graffiti. As it seems to be in almost running condition it would be sad if it got lost to vandalism now.

Finally, there was a four car Tait set down in the Scout park in Mount Martha, is that still there? I couldn't see it on Google Earth.

Regards

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  danvoet Beginner

I think enough has been said about the demise of the Harris trains, the scrapped ones were obviously in a bad way by the end. However what is the fate of the ones converted to V/Line trailers. On few trips to Ballarat recently, I notice that there are fewer in service as they are phased out by the new Vlocity sets. Are there plans to save and restore a couple of these to build a complete set within the Greaser?

Also are there plans to rescue the Tait that is in the Sunshine Roofing Tile Co. in Albion on Ballarat Road? I hadn't looked at it for a decade, and made the effort to go that way a couple of weeks ago. It's mostly still in tact, but there is recent vandalism on the East side with a couple of smashed windows and graffiti. As it seems to be in almost running condition it would be sad if it got lost to vandalism now.

Finally, there was a four car Tait set down in the Scout park in Mount Martha, is that still there? I couldn't see it on Google Earth.

Regards
896T
The set at the Scout Park at Mt Martha was converted to a dining room, activities space and bunkrooms.  It's still there and is used almost every weekend by Cub Scouts mostly.  It became very popular when Harry Potter was the big thing, Cubs from everywhere were going on Harry Potter themed Cub Camps.  You can't see it from Google Earth because the carriages are covered by a giant pergola, from the ground it looks like three trains under a covered station platform.
  ab123 Chief Train Controller

I think enough has been said about the demise of the Harris trains, the scrapped ones were obviously in a bad way by the end. However what is the fate of the ones converted to V/Line trailers. On few trips to Ballarat recently, I notice that there are fewer in service as they are phased out by the new Vlocity sets.
896T

All H cars are currently in service except for one spare car.

(Out of the 4 MTH cars, 3 are stored at Newport Workshops and one has been converted by Metro to an inspection vehicle)
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

There were 55  Harris Suburban cars converted to  H cars  (Classes  BTH, BIH, BH, BCH) for V/Line use . these cars are currently made up into 9 x 6 car sets with a single car loose (spare).  All these cars are regulary in use by VLP largely in peak periods on the Bacchus Marsh and  Seymour lines.

In addition originally  a further four (4)  Harris cars were converted to MTH cars for use initially as trailers with the former 4 x Tulloch DRC, and later as loco hauled cars on the Frankston - Stony Point service.  These cars are now used by Metro and VLP for departmental purposes .  

The  main H car fleet of 55 cars will no doubt continue in service for some years at least till the Melton line is electrified.

The current order for 40 extra V/Locity cars will only provide adequate capacity on RRL lines at opening in 2015/16 .  

The ultimate withdrawal of the  H cars will be dependant on the long awaited acquisition by VLP of a new generation Commuter DMU with wider doorways and 5 across seating .
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I'm starting to think the greaser cars are lost and forgotten, awaiting their final trip to Sims Metal like the 4D. The two cars were in an appalling condition after they were retired from work use a decade ago - there are more broken and blanked windows than not, the compressors are fried (I think they said only one is still operable) and there are no seats whatsoever. Someone would have to borrow a seat or two from 795M and clone them, as there are seemingly no identical ones around - that said, a number of blue Harris cars did end up with Hitachi type seat bases in their twilight years. Also, they need a good coat of paint that isn't GY yellow.
  TheMetman Locomotive Driver

Location: gippsland
I'm starting to think the greaser cars are lost and forgotten, awaiting their final trip to Sims Metal like the 4D. The two cars were in an appalling condition after they were retired from work use a decade ago - there are more broken and blanked windows than not, the compressors are fried (I think they said only one is still operable) and there are no seats whatsoever. Someone would have to borrow a seat or two from 795M and clone them, as there are seemingly no identical ones around - that said, a number of blue Harris cars did end up with Hitachi type seat bases in their twilight years. Also, they need a good coat of paint that isn't GY yellow.
Electrail now owns the Greaser Set. A few years ago copper thieves and vandals got to them. There are spare parts but Steamrail/Electrail has no plans to restore it until Electrail can run trains again. But Electrail still has lots red tape to cut and to go through Metro and PTV.
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
Electrail now owns the Greaser Set. A few years ago copper thieves and vandals got to them. There are spare parts but Steamrail/Electrail has no plans to restore it until Electrail can run trains again. But Electrail still has lots red tape to cut and to go through Metro and PTV.
"TheMetman"


Perhaps it is time Elecrail called legal action against Metro and the state gov for restriction of trade(not sure if thats the right term though) anyway if Elecrail keep jumping through all the right hoops and still get knocked back then i would think they should have a case.

Gordon & Slater bottom feeders would well love to take on a case like this.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Perhaps it is time Elecrail called legal action against Metro and the state gov for restriction of trade(not sure if thats the right term though) anyway if Elecrail keep jumping through all the right hoops and still get knocked back then i would think they should have a case.

Gordon & Slater bottom feeders would well love to take on a case like this.
Black Hoppers
Is there an explanation somewhere, about why Metro et al will not allow Elecrail to run?
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Elecrail has had the greaser set for nearly a decade, and other cars including loco L1162 for even longer (with the exception of 80M and 222M which were acquired later, which are probably also banned from running a train since they do not have the SPOT modifications; they were centre motors when they were retired, the only way they could get around this is by putting them in a 6 car set behind 7M/99M or whatever Metro calls them now, once Metro has had enough of them sitting around wasting space).

As for the red rattlers, I'm surprised that they aren't even allowed to drag them around dead behind a loco. I'm pretty sure they would still look the part if they were sandwiched between K153 and K190 on the suburban shuttles (I wish they were actually all red though without the white, just a personal thing) - of course, they might have to "borrow" some overhead power for the lights. I suggest the steam locos because they are already used on the shuttles, and the fact they have dual couplings which are quite capable of towing screw coupled stock (good luck using push-pull T classes).

Harris 794M/797M: Unroadworthy condition
Swing Door 107M/137M: Waiting to be let out of Newport
Tait cars: Waiting to be let out of Newport
Hitachi 80M/222M: Uncertain if they are allowed to actually lead a train in revenue (e.g. passenger) service
L1162: Waiting to be let out of Newport
Other L class locos: Spare parts for L1162
E class locos: Unroadworthy condition
Parcel vans: Do they even have any? If so, refer to Tait cars
MTH101/103/104: Not owned by Elecrail
4D: Found in Coles and Woolies in the cat food aisle (look for the Australian Made logo, as most cat food comes from Thailand, thus will not contain any 4D parts) Smile

The only option for Harris "T" cars, if H cars cannot be sourced, would probably be some blue S/Z cars, or maybe the K cars (at least the windows would look somewhat similar), although the Harris set would need auto couplers on the #2 end replacing the drawbar (no big loss, considering there are no unmodified Harris trailers left anyway).
  Taitset Chief Commissioner

Location: Eltham, (former) vintage safeworking capital of Melbourne
Parcel vans: Do they even have any? If so, refer to Tait cars
Heihachi_73
10CM (a Swingdoor parcels van) was restored in operating condition and was used on some tours around ~20 years ago, I believe it is still stored at Newport somewhere. 2CM is stored with the majority of the Elecrail fleet at West Block, not sure about it's condition.
  896T Beginner

Thanks everyone.

I managed a quick pit stop at Newport on the way back from Ballarat yesterday. The area is looking much cleaner and tidier than my last look about 10 years ago.

The only electric suburban stock I could see were the sad looking Hitachi 80M and 222M, and a white painted Tait tailer(?) sitting a long way off in a corner.

That still leaves the Ballarat Road Tait. Are there long term plans to retrieve/revive it. As I said, it looks 80% ready to run.
  Alex M Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Perhaps it is time Elecrail called legal action against Metro and the state gov for restriction of trade(not sure if thats the right term though) anyway if Elecrail keep jumping through all the right hoops and still get knocked back then i would think they should have a case.
Black Hoppers
It's been a while since I have heard anything as silly as that!  No we are not looking at anything like that.

10CM (a Swingdoor parcels van) was restored in operating condition and was used on some tours around ~20 years ago, I believe it is still stored at Newport somewhere. 2CM is stored with the majority of the Elecrail fleet at West Block, not sure about it's condition.
Taitset
10CM is not Elecrails car it belongs to the ARHS.  2CM is out the back of West Block, I am led to believe one end is operational, the other end is not.  At the moment it is doing a fine job as a dry storage are for spare parts.

The only electric suburban stock I could see were the sad looking Hitachi 80M and 222M, and a white painted Tait tailer(?) sitting a long way off in a corner. That still leaves the Ballarat Road Tait. Are there long term plans to retrieve/revive it. As I said, it looks 80% ready to run.
896T
The round roof trailer sitting out the back does not belong to Elecrail I believe it belongs to the DERM group, It is in derelict condition (If you had a look inside you'd understand!) and we have no interst in it.  And as for the Tait on Ballarat Road, we have no interest in it, nor do we have plans to retrieve it.  For one thing there is nowhere to put it, and another thing we already have 3 operational Tait Motors, a 4th one that could be made operational with very little effort and 5th one for spares.  We simply have no need for another one.

As for the rest of the quotes in this thread I have been over where we at with our accreditation many times, and all I can say is that the status hasn't changed much since I last mentioned it on Railpage 6 months ago.  As always things are moving..... Slowly, but we are confident that eventually we will be allowed to run.  If we didn't we would of given up along time ago.

In the meanwhile our restoration tasks are moving along nicely, and keeping most of very busy indeed. Most of the interior and body has been completed on Swingdoor 12BT and she is now being painted.  Tait Trailer 341T has now been completely rewired, and we are now finishing off the last few bits of bodywork before we start looking at giving it her first layer of undercaot.  Work on the interior is now progressing nicely as well.
  896T Beginner

Thanks for all that info Alex. I must try and get down there for a tour or some such. Are there still open days? I was thinking of volunteering, but I work all sorts of odd days as a photographer, and web designer, and magazine editor. (I get to interview and photograph people when they are available). So I can't commit to anything to regular.

Regards Andrew
  Ballast_Plough Chief Commissioner

Location: Lilydale, Vic
As for the red rattlers, I'm surprised that they aren't even allowed to drag them around dead behind a loco. I'm pretty sure they would still look the part if they were sandwiched between K153 and K190 on the suburban shuttles The only option for Harris "T" cars, if H cars cannot be sourced, would probably be some blue S/Z cars, or maybe the K cars (at least the windows would look somewhat similar), although the Harris set would need auto couplers on the #2 end replacing the drawbar (no big loss, considering there are no unmodified Harris trailers left anyway).
Heihachi_73

I would suggest that since the suburban shuttles are geared towards young families, the amount of freely opening external doors would cause public liability nightmares.

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