I know from experience a single 3000 will struggle to pull a second one that has broken down for whatever reason. Sure it's possible but at speeds around 25km/hr it's probably not worth doing.

Therefore to haul a 3 car A-City train, 6 3000's would likely be needed, which is perfectly doable given AM assemble such consists at the end of peak hour anyway to send back to Dry Creek.

Using a conventional diesel locomotive creates issues with braking (incompatible systems) and the transition coupler (some restrictions on how these can be used).

If a diesel locomotive was to be used, the incompatible braking and coupling systems would usually be worked around by using a couple of ballasted barrier wagons fitted with the EMU coupler on one end replacing the conventional freight coupling. The barrier wagons serve two purposes - adding more braked vehicles to the consist and providing the interface to the coupling.

A more audacious move would be to set up two locos for the purpose that would always operate in a pair, with one having the controls kept in but the prime mover replaced with a genset and the necessary electronics to run the braking system on the EMU. With EMU couplings on the 'outer' end of the pair and the EMU control electronics routed through from the control-only loco, this pair would be able to be driven from either end and tow an EMU from either end, making the issue of shunting and exceptional operating procedures far less complex.

What would or wouldn't "look good to public" shouldn't be a concern here, as such transfers would usually be done in the dead of night when they won't get in the way of public passenger services. IF somebody made the lunatic decision that it did matter, that could be resolved by simply making sure the locomotive/s see a bucket and sponge on a regular basis - if you read the most recent page of the Port Lincoln thread you'll see that an old locomotive can still look quite smart if it gets looked after properly.

There are numerous places and reasons where sparks are towed by DEL's, Mel takes sparks to Ballart all the time. Cityrail has been known to have its failed trains hauled by DELs and I believe during Syd 2000 Olypmics they had DEL's stored around the network to get in and move a failed unit ASAP if required and I have known it to happen in Qld, including the RTT which at times has to get towed through a failed section of the O/H. I'm not sure on the mechanics but 1-2 locos hooked to the front, probably two if older models and make reverse operation safer, adaptor on the coupler and what ever for the brakes and away you go.

Day or night, who gives are rats, most of the public certainly will not. Is it a bad look? Why would it be, especially if it was to the maintainence sheds where they are often towed anyway to avoid the need to have O/H in some buildings.

A dead EMU is about 120-130t, or a bit more than a NR class, I would not have thought is a heavy load without brakes for even a pair of older DEL's, especially if driven under caution and limited speed.

If the braking system is not capatilble I'm sure there are more ways to skin a cat, however if the said locos would be used routinely, which by the sound of it they would be as there is a very limited size BG fleet of locos available, permanent mods can be done to enable this. I've seen the Qld RTT towed by a single 4000 class they dragged off a coal train. the auto coupler adaptor is on the RTT as I believe its also on the XPT, so I highly doubt there needs to be extensive mods to a DEL to haul a dead EMU. Certainly in rescue mode there is limited scope to top and tail a dead EMU, esepcially on a single track line or a double track a long way between cross overs and even more so if there are other trains trapped behind.

End of the day, its not a big deal or a bad look!

This is starting to get off-topic...

What would or wouldn't "look good to public" shouldn't be a concern here, as such transfers would usually be done in the dead of night when they won't get in the way of public passenger services. IF somebody made the lunatic decision that it did matter, that could be resolved by simply making sure the locomotive/s see a bucket and sponge on a regular basis - if you read the most recent page of the Port Lincoln thread you'll see that an old locomotive can still look quite smart if it gets looked after properly.

The last time I saw the stone train the consist of 704 and a randomly chosen 830 only looked good from a distance. Even from a good 6 meters away you could see a grey layer of material covering the paint on the 830, and both locos had a quite noticeable crop of rust that had eaten holes into side panels.

The Alco haze of efficiency is also not going to improve the look of AM's fully enclosed platforms. Plus some like Hallett Cove which are planned to get extra roof panels to completely cover the tracks.

We have to find some alternative deployment for the Stonie. A few extra EMUs tacked to the back might add some interest.

The diesel loco would not have to necessarily cone from GWA. If the government want to permanently have a loco or two on available like Metro in Melbourne does,  CFCLA has a number of BG locos in vic that could be brought over and with the fall of Elzoro there are a number of locos owned by heritage organizations that are looking for some work.

Metro have 3 locos on long term lease from CFCLA for works trains, move EMU sets to Ballarat for fitout and some maintenance and for EMU set rescue when required.

Matt

Since the topic has changed there are other diesel alternatives to haul EMUs to DCRD.

NRM have a 800 DE waiting for some real work.

Ah! the bark of an 800 exhaust as it lifts a 6 car EMU out of the Goodwood underpass. (Almost as good as steam)
Have no fear an 800 could do it.
I was on a steam Willunga special which slipped to a stand at Marino. The train was the regular Willunga Goods with two steel pax cars on the back and there was unscheduled extra loading. The 5:45 ex Adelaide hauled by an 800 came up behind and pushed steam hauled train and pulled is 7 ECLs to Marino station, with little help from 621 on the front.
The 800s knew how to work and how to let those listening know that they were working.

Ian

Since the topic has changed there are other diesel alternatives to haul EMUs to DCRD.

NRM have a 800 DE waiting for some real work.

Ah! the bark of an 800 exhaust as it lifts a 6 car EMU out of the Goodwood underpass. (Almost as good as steam)
Have no fear an 800 could do it.
I was on a steam Willunga special which slipped to a stand at Marino. The train was the regular Willunga Goods with two steel pax cars on the back and there was unscheduled extra loading. The 5:45 ex Adelaide hauled by an 800 came up behind and pushed steam hauled train and pulled is 7 ECLs to Marino station, with little help from 621 on the front.
The 800s knew how to work and how to let those listening know that they were working.

Ian

That reminds me of my shunting days at Mile End.
Freights would come in from Vic, we would uncouple the twin 930's, hook our little 500 shunter on and lift the whole consist up the bank at the North end of the New Yard.

Excuse my ignorance but what locos are currently used on Adelaide trackwork trains at present? Do GWA provide locos?

Excuse my ignorance but what locos are currently used on Adelaide trackwork trains at present? Do GWA provide locos?

None at all, They use the rubber tyred versions.

So what has been going on with the Stonie over the first two weeks of its new timetable?

For those who prefer observation to speculation.

Week July 1 to 7:  No trains.
Monday, July 8:  26 wagons
Friday, July 12: 21 wagons
Tuesday, July 16: 21 wagons
Friday, July 19: 17 wagons

The variation in train lengths is no greater than when it was running on a daily schedule.

704 + 830 class on each train.

Brian

Brian

That seems to be consistent with Penrice's revised demand which is about 1/3rd of that previously.

They need the limestone to get the CO2 to convert Sodium Carbonate into Sodium Bicarbonate, Bicarb will still be manufactured at Osborne. Penrice also have a market for the burnt lime they produce.

Regards
Ian

Brian

That seems to be consistent with Penrice's revised demand which is about 1/3rd of that previously.

They need the limestone to get the CO2 to convert Sodium Carbonate into Sodium Bicarbonate, Bicarb will still be manufactured at Osborne. Penrice also have a market for the burnt lime they produce.

Regards
Ian

Yes, it does.

Brian

So what has been going on with the Stonie over the first two weeks of its new timetable?

For those who prefer observation to speculation.

Week July 1 to 7:  No trains.
Monday, July 8:  26 wagons
Friday, July 12: 21 wagons
Tuesday, July 16: 21 wagons
Friday, July 19: 17 wagons

The variation in train lengths is no greater than when it was running on a daily schedule.

704 + 830 class on each train.

Brian

Any new observations on the schedule for the Stonie?  I'm going to be in Adelaide on Friday and hope that the observations above are a real trend.

Thanks,
Ted

Any new observations on the schedule for the Stonie?  I'm going to be in Adelaide on Friday and hope that the observations above are a real trend.

Thanks,
Ted

Ted, it's running every Tuesday and Friday.
Last Friday (August 16) it had only 14 wagons - but still had 704 + an 830.

It's down running has varied considerably - somewhere between 0700 and 0900 through Tanunda.
It seems to be fairly regular on the up journey - about 1130 to 1215 through Tanunda.

Brian

Ted, it's running every Tuesday and Friday.
Last Friday (August 16) it had only 14 wagons - but still had 704 + an 830.

It's down running has varied considerably - somewhere between 0700 and 0900 through Tanunda.
It seems to be fairly regular on the up journey - about 1130 to 1215 through Tanunda.

Brian

Brian,

Thanks for the help.

Ted

As we move into October, does the Stonie still run on Tuesday & Friday's or is it now running when required?

If a diesel locomotive was to be used, the incompatible braking and coupling systems would usually be worked around by using a couple of ballasted barrier wagons fitted with the EMU coupler on one end replacing the conventional freight coupling. The barrier wagons serve two purposes - adding more braked vehicles to the consist and providing the interface to the coupling.

A more audacious move would be to set up two locos for the purpose that would always operate in a pair, with one having the controls kept in but the prime mover replaced with a genset and the necessary electronics to run the braking system on the EMU. With EMU couplings on the 'outer' end of the pair and the EMU control electronics routed through from the control-only loco, this pair would be able to be driven from either end and tow an EMU from either end, making the issue of shunting and exceptional operating procedures far less complex.

What would or wouldn't "look good to public" shouldn't be a concern here, as such transfers would usually be done in the dead of night when they won't get in the way of public passenger services. IF somebody made the lunatic decision that it did matter, that could be resolved by simply making sure the locomotive/s see a bucket and sponge on a regular basis - if you read the most recent page of the Port Lincoln thread you'll see that an old locomotive can still look quite smart if it gets looked after properly.

You realy should stick to whinging instead of making things up.

Any diesel loco can be coupled to Scharfenberg couplers quite easily using a bog standard emergency coupler without any extra gear it is done in Sydney,Perth,Melbourne and Brisbane systems regularly.

You are right Black Hoppers, but you do not know Adelaide Metro very well though. The rail side of this Dept is sadly lacking in rail expertise up top. On the coal face is alright, but up top where decisions have to be made it leaves a lot to be desired, believe me.

As we move into October, does the Stonie still run on Tuesday & Friday's or is it now running when required?

Still most Tuesdays and Fridays. Could change tomorrow, could go on like this for months.

Some entertainment this morning (Friday) for idle train spotters at the Bethany Road crossing.  The stonie had 19 loaded wagons with 841 leading 843 (I think I have those numbers correct).  841 was clearly doing all the work up the bank from the crossing.  But couldn't get to the top of the incline.  So it set back - reactivating the crossing lights on its way - to the curve just out of Tanunda.

Then it had another go:  this time it cleared the crossing (just), but not the track circuit for the warning lights.  

Again, it set back - this time significantly further around the curve towards Tanunda.  Another attempt - this time getting even further towards the top. But again it stalled.

So - set back again after a long delay at the top of the incline, this time stopping at the bottom over the two Tanunda Creek bridges.  Leaving 14 wagons, the locos struggled with the other five from a standing start and went through to Lyndoch where the five were left at the siding (I assume).  In the meantime, the crossing warning remained activated by the 14 left behind.
By this time three vineyard workers (in appropriate high-vis vests controlled the traffic) while neighbours including the local Lutheran pastor looked on.

The locos returned, pushed the remaining 14 back to Tanunda and had another go at the bank.  This time it cleared it - and proceeded on its way.  I wonder whether it got past the climb out of Lyndoch and whether it reached Osborne.  And with how many wagons?

I was told that the crew on the down empty had a struggle getting up to Penrice - with 843 doing all the work and 841 not contributing.  So the new crew tested the locos while the wagons were loading and it seemed everything was OK.  But again it was the lead loco (841 this time) that was doing all the work.

Brian

I spotted 841 & 843 at Dry Creek South with the 14 loaded hoppers at around 5:10pm.

704 returned to the Stonie yesterday for the first time since late September, with 843 & 17 hoppers.

704 returned to the Stonie yesterday for the first time since late September, with 843 & 17 hoppers.

Darn, that means they finally fixed it, guess the GWA drivers are having a wild party if that's the case.