Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Is anyone else having long waits of up to five minutes for the Railpage server to bring up the site and/or change messages? All of my other visited sites come up almost straight away. Is there anything we members can do about this? Is it a matter of finance and an overloaded server requiring our help?
"SAR526"
You're not on Dodo Internet by any chance?

Railpage is going really slowly for me but so is everything else the last couple of days, I'm assuming we can blame that - and the return of a former member from a Riverland town south of Berri in the early hours of this morning - on it being the school holidays. Most of the cheaper ISPs like Dodo, TPG and so on are cheap because they skimp on purchasing bandwidth, to the point that they can't handle the peak loads of school holidays and the daily 1700-2200 peak.

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  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
You're not on Dodo Internet by any chance?

Railpage is going really slowly for me but so is everything else the last couple of days, I'm assuming we can blame that - and the return of a former member from a Riverland town south of Berri in the early hours of this morning - on it being the school holidays. Most of the cheaper ISPs like Dodo, TPG and so on are cheap because they skimp on purchasing bandwidth, to the point that they can't handle the peak loads of school holidays and the daily 1700-2200 peak.
justapassenger
No, I'm on Internode, regarded by reviewers of such things as one of the top providers. It's only Railpage which has this fault. All of the others (I read five on-line newspapers every day and access other enthusiast sites as often) respond almost instantly.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I agree on iiNet (including both their Internode and Adam subsidiaries) being a top notch provider, unfortunately at this point in time it's not my call and probably won't be until either I move or NBN (in some form) comes to the area.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

*Off topic*

Internode and iiNet runs off its own DSLAM so they are effectively running their own bandwidth compared to other ISPs that is why iiNet and Internode are more expensive anyone familiar in computing and network will tell you "You pay for what you get" On whirlpool forums for example you check the Dodo ISP section and 90% of the topics made there are of dodos horrible speed/dropouts and customer service. Dodo and TPG are budget ISPs so in order to pass on savings to the customer cut backs need to occur which is buying bandwidth from Telstra or Optus and in Dodos case have their call centre based over seas in India.

*On Topic*

More wiring up to Diagonal Road has now been fitted
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Nobody has denied the assertion that the 3000s will not be able to get out of the Goodwood Underpass with wet rails.
steam4ian
I now have it on very good authority, 1 in 35 without compensation for curve.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

I now have it on very good authority, 1 in 35 without compensation for curve.
Aaron

Got the same advice today and the source also expressed concern about the 3000s on that grade.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Re OH wiring.

Only one set of earth and return conductors strung across Diagonal Road. The masts are almost devoid of hardware and rigging.

Tiger tails on the contact wires at Hove LX.

They are still working in the sections Brighton to HCB even though it looks complete.

I have made my point in earlier posts, I will not bore readers by repeating it. Sadly my contentions are not dispelled by the observed lack of progress and randomness of the work front.

Signal cables are still being pulled in at Marino.

The punters on Facebook are getting very restless.

Ian
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Got the same advice today and the source also expressed concern about the 3000s on that grade.
"steam4ian"
Did we meet at Gaucho's today without noticing?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The punters on Facebook are getting very restless.

Ian
"steam4ian"
Ah, now I see what you mean about the 3000 concern.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
Tonsley Jn was a hive of activity yesterday.

The gantry steelwork, two spans over the junction and cantilever masts at the existing crossover, were erected. Photos below. Track foundation and ballast were graded over the recent stormwater drainage work at the start of the branch.  A tamper was parked on the stub of the branch.  Drainage work was continuing on the Adelaide Tce side of the junction.  The earth and return conductors which had been run out on pulleys on the up line from Cross Rd had been anchored just N of the junction and continued on the ground to Ascot Pk Stn.  A second new signalling cabinet had been installed and cabling was being drawn between the cabinets.

1. Gantry mast erection.  Earth and return conductors laying trackside in foreground.


2. Gantry span being secured.


3. Cantilever mast at crossover.


4. Ballast grading on branch looking N to junction.  Tamping machine and new gantries in background.


Alex C
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I was thinking if the 3000 class railcars do struggle through the underpass on a full load of passengers you think AdMet will limit the amount of people that can board each train to Noarlunga/Tonsley?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I was thinking if the 3000 class railcars do struggle through the underpass on a full load of passengers you think AdMet will limit the amount of people that can board each train to Noarlunga/Tonsley?
"Milkomeda"
More likely they will just keep the line closed until they can fully spark it and hope the 4000s get through.

I don't think the pax weight is the problem, I think it will be slick wet/greasy rails that will be the problem.
  Halo Chief Train Controller

Remember the 3000s only have one powered bogie, and I'm unsure if it drives all four wheels or just the two on one Axel.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It's a Bo bogie IIRC. That's not the issue though, three poxes will have three powered bogies, a three car 4000 will have two.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

I started this and I have no regrets just a lack of official answers.

1:35 is no steeper than the Bradfield Flyovers in Sydney or the Blue Mountains line. I think the line to Currajong was 1:20, train weights were limited to 60T net.

I would expect that a 2 car 3000 with both motors powering would have no trouble even in adverse conditions it is after all only a short climb. Where trouble could be expected is a 2 car set with only one unit powered particularly in adverse conditions.

The problem is that nobody has run a train through.
  Tallboy-Lemond Station Master

I started this and I have no regrets just a lack of official answers.

1:35 is no steeper than the Bradfield Flyovers in Sydney or the Blue Mountains line. I think the line to Currajong was 1:20, train weights were limited to 60T net.

I would expect that a 2 car 3000 with both motors powering would have no trouble even in adverse conditions it is after all only a short climb. Where trouble could be expected is a 2 car set with only one unit powered particularly in adverse conditions.

The problem is that nobody has run a train through.
steam4ian

The uptrack grade is 3% over a length of 110m. The ruling grade for a 6 car set is 2.698%, the ruling garde for a 3 car set is obviosuly 3%. The downtrack grade is 2.965% over a length of 187.745m.

The unofficial answer is it was modelled and signed off about 12 months ago.
  Tallboy-Lemond Station Master

I started this and I have no regrets just a lack of official answers.

1:35 is no steeper than the Bradfield Flyovers in Sydney or the Blue Mountains line. I think the line to Currajong was 1:20, train weights were limited to 60T net.

I would expect that a 2 car 3000 with both motors powering would have no trouble even in adverse conditions it is after all only a short climb. Where trouble could be expected is a 2 car set with only one unit powered particularly in adverse conditions.

The problem is that nobody has run a train through.

The uptrack grade is 3% over a length of 110m. The ruling grade for a 6 car set is 2.698%, the ruling garde for a 3 car set is obviosuly 3%. The downtrack grade is 2.965% over a length of 187.745m.

The unofficial answer is it was modelled and signed off about 12 months ago.
  Tallboy-Lemond Station Master

I started this and I have no regrets just a lack of official answers.

1:35 is no steeper than the Bradfield Flyovers in Sydney or the Blue Mountains line. I think the line to Currajong was 1:20, train weights were limited to 60T net.

I would expect that a 2 car 3000 with both motors powering would have no trouble even in adverse conditions it is after all only a short climb. Where trouble could be expected is a 2 car set with only one unit powered particularly in adverse conditions.

The problem is that nobody has run a train through.

The uptrack grade is 3% over a length of 110m. The ruling grade for a 6 car set is 2.698%, the ruling garde for a 3 car set is obviosuly 3%. The downtrack grade is 2.965% over a length of 187.745m.

The unofficial answer is it was modelled and signed off about 12 months ago.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Said three times. If I didn't know you better I'd say you were a politician.

I believe you, thanks TBL.

What is the delay in putting a train through for a test run? Unofficial answer of course.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
The other thing is it's not just traction that gets the railcars up the ruling grade in this case, trains aren't expected to stop in this section except for the most adverse conditions. Therefore you have forward momentum + momentum gained from downhill section, obviously the total is capped to the speed limit (60 ?). Even if you crawled in at 5km/hr you would still gain some momentum entering the underpass, which would assist somewhat in the uphill section.

Water on the track isn't such an issue either, as less friction going in means more momentum gained from going down hill, again some help on the up hill section.

Things would be reversed if this were an overpass instead, as trains would slow going in, and speed up going out. Real risk there of stalling.

The downtrack is the limiting factor I see, as trains stopping at Goodwood are going to need to power out of the station to get reasonable speed in the underpass.


The most adverse conditions I refer to are not things like wet rails in this case, but far more serious things like trains forced to stop due to accidents/blockages/underpass flooding. I can't see tree branches getting in (easily), but fallen wires, storm debris, and things train drivers don't like to see on the track are possible.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
62430: Thanks very much for those photos yesterday, very cool.  Obviously it's not consistently through yet but there's signs of life.

I wonder when we can expect a test run from Seaford to the city by a 3000 over the new tracks (and through the new underpass?).
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I used to think sooner, but I coming around, February is my current leaning.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
It's a Bo bogie IIRC. That's not the issue though, three poxes will have three powered bogies, a three car 4000 will have two.
Aaron
Interesting.  Do you happen to know which two bogies are powered on a three-car set?
  poxbox3030 Train Controller

Location: Train Control
Interesting.  Do you happen to know which two bogies are powered on a three-car set?
"don_dunstan"


I'm happy to be corrected if I am wrong, but i believe the traction system on the 4000's is basically the same as the Brisbane 160 IMU's and Transperth B series. This would mean that both bogies on the A and B (driving) cars will be powered and the two on the T car are not.

So you will have 4 powered bogies out of 6 on a 3 car set.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I understood it was only the inner bogie of the A and B cars that were powered. As above, I am happy to be corrected!

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