Shapeways na puffing billy loco - has anyone built one up ?

 
  sapper_pat Beginner

http://www.shapeways.com/model/631611/hon30-pbr-na.html?li=search-results&materialId=60

Hi All, just wondering if anyone had bought one of these na bodies from shapeways, and got them running with the class 08 mechanism.

I am thinking of getting one as my first build project, and just want to find out if any one has  built one up, how easy / hard it was to get going with the recommended mechanism, and if you have any photo's of the finished item, so I can see what it looks like built up.

It seems good, but before I part with the cash for the mech and body, I just wanted to get a feel if they are actually worth it.

I  was thinking of doing this as my first kit / kitbash to see how I go, as I would love a puffing billy narrow gauge line to go with my Australian ho layout that I'm looking to start.

Any help / advice would be great.

Thanks all Smile

Sponsored advertisement

  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
VR-Enthusiast forums!

sugges t allok at this thread, her's two links to it.


http://www.vr-enthusiast.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=91&start=380

http://www.vr-enthusiast.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=91&start=360

Regards,
David Head
  transam Junior Train Controller

Hi all
     I have this project also in mind, but only to run a Static Na on a wagon to run
     behind some some serious Broad Gauge Loco,s pre 1962 eg B's, Flat Top's, K's
     or maybe a "R" .
     I started a thread for the Protypical side and the "Good" folk at Railpage came
     up with some great info below, hope this also helps !
     Wondering also has any one tackled this project ?
            Cheers

     http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1754249.htm
  SA_trains Deputy Commissioner

Location: ACT
http://www.shapeways.com/model/631611/hon30-pbr-na.html?li=search-results&materialId=60

Hi All, just wondering if anyone had bought one of these na bodies from shapeways, and got them running with the class 08 mechanism.

I am thinking of getting one as my first build project, and just want to find out if any one has  built one up, how easy / hard it was to get going with the recommended mechanism, and if you have any photo's of the finished item, so I can see what it looks like built up.

It seems good, but before I part with the cash for the mech and body, I just wanted to get a feel if they are actually worth it.

I  was thinking of doing this as my first kit / kitbash to see how I go, as I would love a puffing billy narrow gauge line to go with my Australian ho layout that I'm looking to start.

Any help / advice would be great.

Thanks all Smile
sapper_pat

Hi Sapper,

Excellent to see someone actively seeking to model trains! Well done and welcome to the club. You will find that successfully completing a project is very satisfying.

Now, I hope that I have interpreted your post correctly, because I sense that this is your first attempt at a kit.

Whilst not trying to dissuade you, may I recommend that you commence your kit making, kit bashing journey with a series of simpler projects and slowly increase the complexity of projects. As a generalisation, locomotive kits are the most complex to get "right".  I would recommend making some simple rollingstock kits first like a flat car, open wagon or similar, then work your way forward with kits of increasing complexity.

My experience with Shapeways is very limited. From what I've seen so far has given me some concern with respect to the quality of the external surface (the bit you will have to paint, detail, etc). Also, I don't know what traps there are in "working" the material to fit the desired mechanism. For example, in polyurethane loco kits I've worked on, there is usually some work to be done to enable the donor mechanism so that it will physically fit in. Work such as filing, sanding, milling etc. Polyurethane is a very nice, forgiving material to work. I do not know what the Shapeways material is like. It may be very brittle, it may not drill well etc. It may well be as easy to work as polyurethane. I don't know.

These are some of the questions you should ask/think about when contemplating this kit.

I wish you well and good luck with this and all your projects.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Mmmmm, it's Shapeways... That means you order an Na shell and there's a 40% chance you'll get it printed looking like a Pannier tank with a deltic cab attached. If you're lucky you'll even get the same length on both long edges of the footplate.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Several people have bought these, and I have yet to see one completed that looked acceptable to me. I also know that several more were purchased and did not end up being assembled.

I saw one in the flesh once, and words cannot describe how awful it was.
  danpickard Junior Train Controller

Location: Geelong
Hmmm, I'm a bit like Mr Blacksmith...haven't assembled one, but have seen a printed piece, and the finish quality was pretty poor.  The rough paint job on the one I saw didn't do the model any favours, but the all over texture of the print was quite a killer.  Far too many details (that are apparently there if you look at the 3D renders on shapeways) just disappear into the course printing technique.  I would only personally use this shapeways piece as a rough mock up...a long way from a decent enough piece to display.  Unfortunately, I see a lot of modellers though who seem more excited about the fact you can print things in 3D, rather than the fact that despite the cool bit of technology, the result isn't really that satisfying.

Dan Pickard
  benscaro Chief Commissioner

because shapeways AKA 'furryways' is not set up to correctly render complex orientations, a lot of 3D product doesn't turn out very good.  particularly in the larger scales. if you get a good one, it can look OK in N.  my experience is that TT scale models (just a bit bigger) need a lot of sanding.  

also, there are questions as to how their materials cope with a range of temperatures.  someone who got an NA in one of the garden model railway scales reported it had started to warp and melt in the australian outdoors. i saw obfuscation from furryways advocates on this and other issues. i call it a warning sign when someone has gone from 'best thing since sliced bread' -land to retreating into semantics, rather than recognising a problem. caveat emptor.

my experience with twelve wagons in TT scale is one had warping issues, in the rather milder english summer.  the others were stable, but needed considerable sanding to clean them up.  so not a bad hit rate, but furryways is not cheap (30 euro a print) and that is for a model that is going to need a lot of work to be ready.  i would not want to use their prints in strong direct sunlight.

there was a traceable arc in everyone jumping on the furryways bandwagon for model trains in the UK, which has largely frittered away as the limits of the material and slovenly attitude of the company to quality control have taken their toll.  

there are better 3-D printers out there, but i think the consensus is that it is a technology that is not quite there yet, even with companies who will work with designers and who do care about quality.  it will happen, i am sure, but give it a couple of years.

in TT, furryways would be useful for more simple prints where the orientation doesn't need to change a lot. it's a dumb technology, ergo, use it for simple things where it won't be challenged, ie, things like boxcar sides, roofs and ends, for example.  but because the designers are not that bright overall, and still in love with the 3-D aspect, it really isn't being used for the low end simple jobs where it might be OK.

things where it is out of sight are an idea.  for  example, retrofit loco chassis that use existing trucks  and motors in a new wheelbase, or underframes in their WSF material might be fine, as the WSF is a rigid material and an underframe doesn't need to look that good. who cares if it is a bit furry.

they also have to get a bit smart with their pricing.  a lot of furryways designers have no experience of what people are prepared to pay for low end epoxy resin parts, which is what furryways is equivalent to.  so someone was trying to sell a boxcar end in HO for 20 euro.  wonder how many sales he got?   word to the wise: when you aren't that good, charge a low price.
  Marbelup Station Master

Location: Perth, Western Australia
I have been getting quite good results lately from i.Materialise in Belgium.  They have a "Prime Gray" material which Shapeways don't offer, which can produce quite a smooth appearance if you are careful about the print orientation.  I did have some major problems a few months ago when i.Materialise changed (i.e. degraded) their print specifications without notice, but I have designed my latest models to match the revised specs and, in the last few weeks, revised my earlier models which had been causing problems.

Here is a pic of my latest model: a WAGR VG louvre van in Sn3½ scale.  I haven't treated the 3D-printed surface apart from painting.  This van was printed in one piece, on end to get a smooth finished on the curved roof.  The second print shows the van before detailing (handrails, etc.) and painting.  (The WMD hopper behind it is also a 3D print.)



  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
My last dealing with Failways was getting a series of near identical objects made, they turned up out of size spec, almost as though they'd been printed with the old 'fit to page' box checked, not actual size.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
There are far better bureaus out there doing 3D printing, but at significantly greater cost. The trick is to design the models in several pieces so you can then have them cast and reproduced in urethane, a much more durable and stable material. But everyone seems obsessed with the idea of one-piece bodies.

If you make them in several pieces you can take advantage of the optimum build direction to help reduce stepping on curved surfaces, and by casting them in urethane you can make many of them at a low price, and that can offset the initially higher cost of the build.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There are far better bureaus out there doing 3D printing, but at significantly greater cost. The trick is to design the models in several pieces so you can then have them cast and reproduced in urethane, a much more durable and stable material. But everyone seems obsessed with the idea of one-piece bodies.

If you make them in several pieces you can take advantage of the optimum build direction to help reduce stepping on curved surfaces, and by casting them in urethane you can make many of them at a low price, and that can offset the initially higher cost of the build.
the way you have outlined.
I'd be happy to see some links to these other places.....  I  have a shapeway z scale orecar, which a caster  here in Victoria is reproducing for me

Regards,
David Head
  Marbelup Station Master

Location: Perth, Western Australia
There are far better bureaus out there doing 3D printing, but at significantly greater cost. The trick is to design the models in several pieces so you can then have them cast and reproduced in urethane, a much more durable and stable material. But everyone seems obsessed with the idea of one-piece bodies.

If you make them in several pieces you can take advantage of the optimum build direction to help reduce stepping on curved surfaces, and by casting them in urethane you can make many of them at a low price, and that can offset the initially higher cost of the build.
TheBlacksmith
Either approach is valid, depending on the likely quantity being made, and the shape of the particular model.  Not all models are suitable for the "flat panel" approach.  The i.Materialise Prime Gray material (tradename "Xtreme" by 3D Systems) seems much better than most 3D printing materials in terms of its durability, and the surface finish is way ahead of the furry white polyamide material.  My oldest print is about 1 year old, and I corresponded with UK modellers who have been using it for 2 years with no obvious degradation.  The material has been in use since at least 2008.
Here is a pic of a WAGR R class loco in Sn3½ built and painted by another modeller from my 3D prints.  The body is a 2-piece print, split lengthways, to minimise stepping on the curved roof and ends.  The chassis and bogie sideframes are also 3D prints.  The mech may be recognisable to some.  Further production of this loco has been in limbo for a while due to the change in print specs at i.Materialise, but I have just redesigned the body and am waiting on a new test print to see how it goes with the lower spec.  The difference is 0.5 mm minimum detail vs. 0.3 mm.  Pretty much all of the detail is included in the 3D print except for handrails, horns, ladder and MU hoses.  The cab-side numbers are printed, so I generate a new STL file for each number (R1901-1905) as required.  The builder of this model left the cab-side numbers and window frames in the raw grey colour to approximate the metal finish of the original.  The custom decals are by Westland Models.
I did get prices for the loco body from Finelines in the US (who have a good reputation) but the price was 4-5 times i.Materialise and the longevity of the material is unknown so the suitability for use as a permanent model is questionable.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Either approach is valid, depending on the likely quantity being made, and the shape of the particular model.  Not all models are suitable for the "flat panel" approach.  The i.Materialise Prime Gray material (tradename "Xtreme" by 3D Systems) seems much better than most 3D printing materials in terms of its durability, and the surface finish is way ahead of the furry white polyamide material.  My oldest print is about 1 year old, and I corresponded with UK modellers who have been using it for 2 years with no obvious degradation.  The material has been in use since at least 2008.
Here is a pic of a WAGR R class loco in Sn3½ built and painted by another modeller from my 3D prints.  The body is a 2-piece print, split lengthways, to minimise stepping on the curved roof and ends.  The chassis and bogie sideframes are also 3D prints.  The mech may be recognisable to some.  Further production of this loco has been in limbo for a while due to the change in print specs at i.Materialise, but I have just redesigned the body and am waiting on a new test print to see how it goes with the lower spec.  The difference is 0.5 mm minimum detail vs. 0.3 mm.  Pretty much all of the detail is included in the 3D print except for handrails, horns, ladder and MU hoses.  The cab-side numbers are printed, so I generate a new STL file for each number (R1901-1905) as required.  The builder of this model left the cab-side numbers and window frames in the raw grey colour to approximate the metal finish of the original.  The custom decals are by Westland Models.
I did get prices for the loco body from Finelines in the US (who have a good reputation) but the price was 4-5 times i.Materialise and the longevity of the material is unknown so the suitability for use as a permanent model is questionable.
Marbelup
Yes, I certainly recognise that mechanism Wink. And for David's sake, the company I was referring to was Finelines, but I can tell you the longevity of their high definition material is certainly questionable, which is why I recommend the approach of using it for a casting master.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Marbelup, TheMeddlingMonk

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.