Kooragang Flyover

 
  Burnsy Beginner

Hi, does anyone know the specifications for the proposed Kooragang Island rail flyover? The NC Herald reported the cost @ $28m but I can't find any other details.

Cheers

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  DesL Station Master

NCIG are planning to build a flyover. Is that the one?

Have a look at this document: http://tinyurl.com/8duucm6

Des
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Looks like they want the up branch to fly over the NCIG arrival so they can get them straight into NCIG without delay, Mayfield west is just on the other side of the river of this already dust pit, 28 million is a lot to spend on a 7 minute delay.
Maybe if drivers made use of the high speed turnouts into NCIG 40KM/h instead of dawdling 10K/h we could save 28 million?
  The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

Location: Banned
Maybe if drivers made use of the high speed turnouts into NCIG 40KM/h instead of dawdling 10K/h we could save 28 million?
"Junction box"


Now, let's look at this comment critically for a second. While I have only ever relieved trains at the departure end of the NCIG loop seeing as I am not qualified for, and have never been around the NCIG loop proper. Have you taken into account the signal indications most trains receive when branching off into NCIG? And, the signal indications they receive further along the loop? Remember what those “Calling-On” and “Ground Signal” indications mean. They fundamentally mean- the line ahead may be occupied. There has already been an incident at Kooragang of late, where a coal train was running to the boards so-to-speak, and in-turn was unable to pull up before a collision with another train ahead of it. Pulling up 10000 tonnes of air-brake coal train dosen't exactly happen in a hurry.

Even with that very crucial point in mind, there's a lot more variables to take into account other than the rather simplistic view that there's higher speed turnout's leading into NCIG. Have you also taken into account that the majority of trains entering NCIG are coming from the Hunter Valley, and in-turn are long enough to still be travelling through a 25km/h set of points on the Sandgate side of the Hunter River bridge if running in the “normal” running direction? No, I suggest you didn't take that into account. That fact alone negates a lot of your comment. So, as you can see, maybe that's a pretty silly comment you've made there.

  Termite Chief Commissioner

Location: NSW
Well said Trolley!

There are alot of variables that prohibit the track being traversed at a higher speed.

It's like driving a section of track that goes from 70km/h to 100km/h then down to 65km/h over a short distance, the driver isn't going to try and do the 100 just to knock it back down to 65.

This is where Drivers route knowledge comes into play and sorts out the Drivers from the Drovers...
  a6et Minister for Railways

Ignorance is never bound up in short areas.  Some years back when I was still on the job, & was travelling home pass to WCK from BMD on the XPT, I was sitting behind a couple of old biddies who would complain bitterly amongst each other over several areas where the train was going slow, & constantly pointed out to each other "those lazy railway workers" who were standing on the side of the line & doing nothing, "why dont they do something about the slow speed & fix things instead of just standing there" was the reply from the other.

In frustration I leaned over & said to them,  Have you ever considered that lazy workers are doing some about fixing the track, also if they were not standing beside the line, they would be under the train.

Never heard squeek from them again.
  beyerpeacock Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gorton Foundry
Looks like they want the up branch to fly over the NCIG arrival so they can get them straight into NCIG without delay, Mayfield west is just on the other side of the river of this already dust pit, 28 million is a lot to spend on a 7 minute delay.
Maybe if drivers made use of the high speed turnouts into NCIG 40KM/h instead of dawdling 10K/h we could save 28 million?
"Junction box"


Back the bus up big fella. Have you considered that you're limited to 35km/h turnouts when going in the Up direction and 25km/h when going Bi-Di? How about the signal indications you can recieve coming into NCIG and Kooragang for that matter? Such is the saturation point of traffic that you quite often chase One's and One and a Halves from as far back as your starting signal out of the mine, and when you get into Kooragang's yard limits you have several calling on and dead end signals you may need to obey (that includes NCIG)

There are many, many instances that prevent long and heavy trains from running the boards in circumstances like Kooragang and NCIG. It's not just about speed, It's about good train management and looking after the $40 million odd bucks worth of gear you've got sitting up your smeg as opposed to saving a few minutes. Which in the Hunter Valley Coal Chain is bugger all.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
This is what happens when Drivers go as fast as the boards say they can, instead of what the signals and common bloody sense suggests...

Maybe it's time for Signallers to travel with train crews for a week to see things from outside the box?
  Burnsy Beginner

Thanks Des
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
25KM/h is better than 10KM/h when NCIG Junction is a few kay from NCIG bin, there is plenty of sighting distance on the arrival road, but like you say it depends on the aspect given, if you get a turnout will this tell you the next block ahead is clear?
  beyerpeacock Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gorton Foundry
A turnout will, but once again as I mentioned such is the saturation point you will often get a calling on into NCIG. Donno about you but if I see that little yellow, I'll go as slow as I bloody well please.

I value being able to keep a roof over my head and food on my familys table.
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
Is the idea of this project to enable train crew to sit longer at the gantry while they wait for the train beside to finish tipping or is it to give train crew more time to sit at the bin while they set up the dump station ?
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
I was talking to someone "in the know" a few days ago and I was told the cost of the fly-over is $128M and we should see work starting soon.
The project is not so much about getting trains into NCIG quicker, it is about allowing a better run for all trains arriving and departing on the island.
  Dover Chief Train Controller

I was talking to someone "in the know" a few days ago and I was told the cost of the fly-over is $128M and we should see work starting soon.
The project is not so much about getting trains into NCIG quicker, it is about allowing a better run for all trains arriving and departing on the island.
"Shacks"


The discussion has gotten close to the point, but the benefit of the flyover is reducing the number of conflicting moves. Greater throughput isn't achieved so much by 'speed', it's more about not stopping!
  Mickonthehill Station Staff

Location: Crimial Hill
And don't forget that when T4 is built there will be more empties returning up the valley.  The flyover helps to de-couple the different terminals, so that even if an in-bound train to NCIG is delayed for some reason it doesn't hold up outbound traffic from Kooragang or the future T4.
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
I can say work has started on the flyover in the last few weeks. There is a sign as you come off the Toule St bridge saying Flyover Construction site. Most of the work at the moment is consisting of filling in part of the swamp.
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3793/10848009023_6ef3aaba9a_b.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shacksd700/10848009023/
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Who got the job to construct?
  Bugnash Station Master

I have seen the plans for this job. Very impressive.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Looks like they want the up branch to fly over the NCIG arrival so they can get them straight into NCIG without delay, Mayfield west is just on the other side of the river of this already dust pit, 28 million is a lot to spend on a 7 minute delay.
Maybe if drivers made use of the high speed turnouts into NCIG 40KM/h instead of dawdling 10K/h we could save 28 million?
Junction box
The signals from a certain point all shunt signals, which do NOT detect the absence of trains in the section ahead, not even the "Lever Stick" or "A" track.

Thus these shunt signals have a speed limit of AFAIK 25/km. Drivers have to drive on sight.

The yard is however completely track circuited.

So it would not matter what speed the turnouts are otherwise capable of.

It's like this at Port Waratah, where the "certain point" is around Scholey St.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
I can't see how you would get a turnout into an occupied block, maybe NCIG arrival could do with another signal to break up the block sections.
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Ignorance is never bound up in short areas.  Some years back when I was still on the job, & was travelling home pass to WCK from BMD on the XPT, I was sitting behind a couple of old biddies who would complain bitterly amongst each other over several areas where the train was going slow, & constantly pointed out to each other "those lazy railway workers" who were standing on the side of the line & doing nothing, "why dont they do something about the slow speed & fix things instead of just standing there" was the reply from the other.

In frustration I leaned over & said to them,  Have you ever considered that lazy workers are doing some about fixing the track, also if they were not standing beside the line, they would be under the train.

Never heard squeek from them again.
a6et

Arent these people called whingers lol. That was just funny too haha.
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
Who got the job to construct?
Junction box
There is a Downer sign near the gate, but I will check next time I go to the island.

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