Australian High-speed rail back on agenda

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Federal Labor frontbencher Anthony Albanese will ask parliament to push ahead with plans for a high-speed rail network after slamming the government's lack of support for public transport.The MP for the Sydney seat of Grayndler was a strong advocate for a Brisbane to Melbourne line - via Sydney, with a Canberra branch - which the former government budgeted at $114 billion to be operational by 2065 and carry 84 million passengers a year.
Australian High-speed rail back on agenda


View the full story

Do we really need the inland rail link ?  Will Sydney to Brisbane and Sydney to Melbourne freight use this new link?

Will the existing lines between these locations still remain open after inland is delivered?

Sponsored advertisement

  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
Do we really need the inland rail link ?  Will Sydney to Brisbane and Sydney to Melbourne freight use this new link?

Will the existing lines between these locations still remain open after inland is delivered?
bevans
Eventually.  No.  

Yes.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The Inland rail link Is just a freight line tapping Into existing standard gauge mainlines In Northern NSW and linking them to major Industrial centres on the Queensland Coast (Brisbane, Gladstone, Townsville, etc)

After traveling on high speed trains In Western and Central Europe, I can't see any high speed lines been built In Australia (In the 300 km/h ballpark that Is)

Mainly because the major population centres In Australia are just too far apart, not many people In Europe travel like 1000 km's on high speed trains, because planes are cheaper and quicker.

You would find few people who would travel from like London to Berlin

Though people heavily patronage the routes that are a few hundred Km's
Like
Paris to London
Paris to Amsterdam
London to Bruxelles
Bruxelles to Köln,
Köln to Frankfurt am Main
Hamburg to Berlin
Köln to Berlin
München to Wien
Paris to Marseille
Zürich to Roma

Plus where are the Governments going to find $114 Billion for a novelty project, they can't even find a few Billion for much needed urban mass transit projects !

If the price tag was spent on mass urban transit, Cities like Darwin, Shepparton, Wagga Wagga, etc would be getting metro's
  Braddo Deputy Commissioner

Location: Narre Warren
2065? You're joking right? Get the Chinese to build it, they'll do it in a few years for a fraction of $114 billion.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
2065? You're joking right? Get the Chinese to build it, they'll do it in a few years for a fraction of $114 billion.
Braddo

Only if not one Australian was employed on the project and we removed Australian designed standards from the design criteria!
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!


Plus where are the Governments going to find $114 Billion for a novelty project, they can't even find a few Billion for much needed urban mass transit projects !

Nightfire
They can't even get low speed rail right, why would we expect them to be able to manage high speed?


How many low speed rail services a day are there over this supposedly busy corridor? One? One passenger train a day on this busy corridor?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This is the reason why the project should be award to an experienced european company.  Recently it was found $30b yes $30BILLION could be saved off the price of the project.  Then again we were told NBN would cost $42b and I think personally if completed it will be north of $90b

The Australia Tax is preventing major projects from becoming viable.

Regards
Brian
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
This is the reason why the project should be award to an experienced european company.  Recently it was found $30b yes $30BILLION could be saved off the price of the project.  Then again we were told NBN would cost $42b and I think personally if completed it will be north of $90b

The Australia Tax is preventing major projects from becoming viable.

Regards
Brian
bevans

We also have some of lowest corporate taxes in western world. But its not the tax holding this project back, its the demographic.

Experienced European companies has about as much reliability as anyone else, but yes it would natural you award the project to someone with experience in the field. Engineering Contractiing 101.

Govt projects, especially those a bit unusual and built over large terrain have a history of going over budget because its so difficult to fully scope a project like this out.

Last night I booked my tickets for TGV in France, Paris to Geneva. 3hr along a route about 2/3 the distance of S-M, with far far higher population along the way and at both ends. While I will no doubt enjoy this trip, I am under no assumptions that the technology will or should be replicated in Australia for quite some time.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

A VFT will never be built in Australia - the strong air & strong road lobby will see to that -->
& especially under Abbot as PM.

But it will almost always come around just before each federal election!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Don't know if we are ready for HSR yet or for it to have any chance to some sort of pay back.

I just booked with TGV for 2 + 2 people
- Marseille to Paris 750km (3.5hr) $500 One Way
- Paris to Geneva 410km (3.25hr) $420 One Way

I have a hire car to Marseille and we ditch it there. It would cost only another $100 for hire + fuel to get to Paris. I could then keep it there for the 5 days and drive it to Geneva in 1hr longer than the train to Geneva (maybe see more) for similar cost to TGV and I need a car at Geneva to get to Monte Blanc. If it wasn't for the HSR factor for myself and the kids, I'd be in the car and save about half my travel expenses includes additional savings in getting the one way car hire back to Austria.

HSR in Australia, I suspect many a tourist will see the same cost disadvantages and probably more so with cheaper fuel and car ownership than Central Europe. Even for a family to go to say the Mel from Sydney for weekend, yes HSR will be about half the time, probably 3.5-4hr. but the above costs means the tickets for 4 would be about $800 as a minimum. A mid sized car would cost about $200 in fuel, add in a bit of wear and tear $250.

Note these ticket prices are for physicaly shorter routes than Australia, with infrastructure built on cheaper wages and a heavily subsidised railway. How much do we really think it will be between Australian state Capitals? Also note the time frame above for the distances. So it would appear that Syd-Mel is highly unlikely to be less than 3.5hr if not 4hr and Syd-Brisbane is anything below 4hr.

Paris Geneva trains operate roughly at 3hrly intervals
Paris Marseille trains operate I think about every 2hr if you include both operators.

One thing that I think if built needs to happen is not a vertically intergrated HS railway. Rather Govt builds and operates the track and infrastructure. Trains then purchased and operated by private companies, thus allowing mutiple operators to help lower costs. The French have the very cheap operator, I didn't book with them this time due to risk of soemthing not going to plan. But after this trip I would consider next time.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Albo holds press conference this morning on HSR for Australia.

  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
It won't happen, for reasons that have been explained by a number of us again and again and again.

It is the ultimate red herring in federal transport politics.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I believe it will be built and it has nothing to do with money.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
It won't happen, for reasons that have been explained by a number of us again and again and again.

It is the ultimate red herring in federal transport politics.
Watson374
Sorry to deflate your ego...however none of us are transport or infrastructure guru's and because someone has a wish for something to be or not to be undertaken has no bearing whatsoever on the reality...
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I believe it will be built and it has nothing to do with money.
bevans
"I have no Idea where you think the money to build the project Is going to come from.

It has everything to do with money/funding.

All the funding that goes towards studies Is just public money being poured Into consultants pockets (that are mates of the Government) and they all come back with the same answer "we need more money for studies" (more money for their pockets)

The public gets told all these pie In the sky dates and figures.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Nightfire, RTT_Rules

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.