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Noarlunga Line Shutdown

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      don_dunstan Dr Beeching

    Location: Adelaide proud
    Let's hope that Adelaide will avoid what has happened to Melbourne and still more to Sydney which I also know very well. It's a human failure that we all share, but many Adelaideans don't know when they are well off.
    SAR526
    Brian, it was interesting to read your observations.  Unfortunately I have to agree with you on your reflections on Melbourne - in the time that I've been living here we have added an extra million people and for some reason that's considered a wonderful outcome.  Our PT system, once the best in Australia, is groaning under the weight of these added people to the extent that I often can't physically get on at my local train station during the peaks.  I've tried telling my local member about this but he's just not interested; it's as if our good fortune in maintaining our tram network and excellent train system is being progressively eroded by the sheer weight of numbers, for some reason determined to overtake Sydney as Australia's answer to Mexico City or Bangkok.

    Adelaide people often have a chip on their shoulder about the fact that its not growing in the same manner as the other four mainland capitals but I've come to view this as a comparative advantage over places like Perth and Melbourne.  The reconstruction of the rail system was an important missing link - fair enough that it doesn't cover all the metro area and PT use is less than in other cities but hopefully it has the affect of increasing amenity for those who live within its catchment and in the future it may also be supplemented by expanded light rail/trams which can complement the heavy rail system.

    My only regret with electrification was that they didn't make the effort to turn Goodwood into a proper interchange with the tram - I know from when I was living in the inner south that it would have been much more convenient and it would have also allowed interoperability and access to the south of the city for those not wishing to go all the way to North Terrace.  They might tackle this in the future as with grade separations?

    To those who are unhappy with the current timetable; I understand why you're not happy but the system is still in transition and that because of those delays with Bombardier a fully operational line won't happen for (apparently) another six months.  At that time hopefully there'll be a better range of stopping/express services and they can also fix the frequency issues.
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 12:33

    Last edited by don_dunstan on 03 Dec 2013 13:11; edited 3 times in total

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      rxclass Junior Train Controller

    Location: On the manual turntable at Marino turning an exquisite Rx class steam locomotive.
    G'afternoon All,

    Was intending to go by bus to Blackwood and connect with a train from there, however a change in schedule saw me drive to my parents-in-law and catch a train from Marion this morning. The 2 car 3000 consist arrived on time, was very clean, carried a large number of passengers (no one standing), and in spite of a number of TSRs arrived in Adelaide within the minute of schedule time.

    The train on the return journey was a 2 car 3000 consist which again was clean, not so crowded this time, left on time and arrived at Marion on time.

    From this admittedly limited exposure the service appears to have bedded down and is running alright. I almost wish that I lived near the Seaford line.

    Plenty of worker activity at the new Marion underpass, fencing work between Ascot Park and Woodlands Park, preparation for overhead cable installations between Edwardstown and Goodwood.

    I also noticed that the overhead gantries span all lines, including the standard gauge line near Showgrounds station. I was under the impression one of the reasons given that the Belair line could not be electrified was that a portion of the right-of-way was owned by ARTC and so could not be used to erect overhead gantries. On this location they definitely are situated on ARTC land. Does this mean that the interstate line is to be electrified in the future( we can only hope).

    Regards,
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 16:54
      yoyoman Junior Train Controller

    Location: Adelaide, SA
    I wonder if anyone can tell me (maybe Auntie Chloe?) why there are still several N4 buses running during the day? Is it that some commuters are so stupid as to stand at the bus stop (near the railway line) and not recognise that sound of a train pulling in to and departing from the adjacent station?

    Yes, these buses still have passengers on them. Not many but obviously enough that someone has decided to continue to run the service.

    Even this morning I saw someone standing at a bus stop less than 100m from the Marino Rocks railway station.

    I despair!
    davida62
    I was standing at NC this morning waiting for the 6.11am train to the city having caught it on Monday.  6.06 and the train hadn't turned up, N5 was sitting at the stop so I got on that.  Bus departed at 6.11am (same time as train due to depart) and when traversing the rail bridge the railcars were still sitting in the station with red markers on the north end, obviously still waiting to depart.

    Yesterday's train (same time) arrived at ARS at 0703am, today I got to Rundle Mall stop at 0654am - I would normally get off at Vic Sq however today I was feeling so early decided to go the extra stop and have an extra walk Smile  On this occasion it was actually quicker to catch the bus.

    This afternoon jumped on the 1630 train - 1630 passes, 1631...32.....33......34 finally decided to leave so 4 minutes late.  When I got on at 1628 there were very few seats left and decided to stand - not many people disembarked my carriage until Oaklands, a lot continued all the way to Noarlunga (the next 'busiest' stop was probably Hallett Cove)  Not sure what time we arrived at NC because I wasn't paying attention, just wanted to get to NC (and too busy admiring a rather cute member of the opposite sex) Laughing

    Sometimes there's a valid reason for people catching the bus this week, next week I won't have a choice.  Unfortunately it's the poor timetable and lengthy running times of 50+ minutes to/from the city that you should leave you in despair.  (If I travelled at a later time, in the morning, then it may well be a totally different outcome, I completely understand and accept that)

    I'm guessing a lot of southern residents are happy to be catching the train again rather than the bus however are also pretty disappointed about the lack of express/semi-express services.
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 19:05

    Last edited by yoyoman on 03 Dec 2013 19:10; edited 2 times in total
      Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
    'Temporary'
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 19:08
      David Peters Dr Beeching

    Location: "With Hey Boy".
    Yes that is the word that everyone misses when they read things it is only temporary, till the rest of the lines come into service and a full blown timetable can be put into place.
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 20:12
      mynameismike Deputy Commissioner

    Location: /dev/adelaide/magill
    Erm, no

    You stated
    2001
    No, You started - You invaded Poland.
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 21:56
      Dingo2013 Station Staff

    Location: Banned
    It sounds as though things are going good overall with the resumption of the noarlunga rail service, the new timetable is way better than the old one. Very Happy
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 21:57
      nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

    Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
    The Oakland Park crossing overpass calls have (re-)started already, from Nine News:

    http://youtu.be/6ZrR6AIMcPw

    The story mentions this stat; 'Between 7.06am -8.23am 17 trains', '11 inbound 6 outbound', 'Gates down every 4.5 mins'.
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 22:32
      2001 The Snow Lord

    Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
    No, You started - You invaded Poland.
    mynameismike
    And you're trolling.
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 22:44
      witsend Chief Commissioner

    Location: Front RH Seat of a School Bus
    The Oakland Park crossing overpass calls have (re-)started already, from Nine News:

    http://youtu.be/6ZrR6AIMcPw

    The story mentions this stat; 'Between 7.06am -8.23am 17 trains', '11 inbound 6 outbound', 'Gates down every 4.5 mins'.
    nscaler69

    Alternatives include Marion Rd... I'd expect Leader St, East Avenue, Raglan Ave, and Brighton Rd would be just as bad, yet no one is calling for an overpass there.

    I do agree there should be an overpass, but again, would the motorist be willing to pay for it? Would train passengers pay for it? The government is representative, and if neither wants to pay for it, then the government won't pay for it. I personally think the intersection sucks, and the stations should have been rebuilt where it was, but what's done is done now. How about a toll road under it? Charge each car $2 each time it passes under. Should pay it off in no time. Have plenty of space to hang number plate reconigition camera under the bridge Smile

    Oh, after the rail people have not had their line for 11 months, do you reckon they'd appreciate another closure for the overpass to be built. I did chuckle seeing the N3/N4 in the shot.

    Is there something that PTS can do to reduce the length of time for train approach? I assume the crossing for outbound trains is activated once the train stops in Oaklands Station, for its mandatory 30 second warning.
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 22:52

    Last edited by witsend on 03 Dec 2013 22:53; edited 1 time in total
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    The booms at the Oaklands crossing are painfully slow, seem much slower than others.

    I used Brighton Road this morning but avoided the LX at Hove, however I couldn't see any particular problems there when I drove nearby.

    The Oaklands LX is really two LX in one. If that stupid station hadn't been built so close that is what they could have done, two LXs then with an intersection by the swimming Centre.
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 23:04
      2001 The Snow Lord

    Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
    Everytime I pass over that crossing on the train, I take a quick look to the left and right to see the amount of traffic banked up waiting. And I'm sure glad I rarely have the need to drive over that crossing. Problem is compounded a little by a priority green light for buses at the stop on the southern side. So, the folk must wait for trains, pedestrians, and buses.

    Shouldn't need to suspend services in order to build either a road or rail bridge. When the Marion and Daws Road rail bridges and embankment was under construction, train services continued to use the line. There is an obvious (if you are viewing from a train window) slew in alignment of the track between Ascot Park and Marion Stations. Don't know if the SAR managed to keep just one, or two tracks operating during the construction phase. One of the older Railpagers here might remember.
    Posted: 03 Dec 2013 23:21
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    Yes that is the word that everyone misses when they read things it is only temporary, till the rest of the lines come into service and a full blown timetable can be put into place.
    "David Peters"
    Hmmm, I am aware this is a temporary timetable, but it am also aware that it is going to be like this for AT LEAST another three months... I am further aware that 'temporary' things have a great habit of becoming 'permanent'.
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 11:42
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    The Oaklands LX is really two LX in one. If that stupid station hadn't been built so close that is what they could have done, two LXs then with an intersection by the swimming Centre.
    "steam4ian"
    It's okay Ian, Oaklands is/was a 'temporary' station, which is also why despite being a 'main station' it was built too short for a coupled spark. The setup around Oaklands WILL change, just possibly not in either of our lifetimes, but it's okay, flying cars are not too far away...
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 11:48
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    Aaron.

    Is the temporary station like the temporary timetable?Smile

    I went over the Hove LX at 7:40 this morning with no trouble; I had seen a train in the distance and expected to get stopped by another but that did not happen.

    Regards
    Ian
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 13:30
      justapassenger Minister for Railways

    Alternatives include Marion Rd... I'd expect Leader St, East Avenue, Raglan Ave, and Brighton Rd would be just as bad, yet no one is calling for an overpass there.
    "witsend"
    There have been calls for an overpass at Brighton Road.

    Once that Morphett Road and Brighton Road ones are separated, all the other local streets should be fine as they are if appropriate traffic engineering solutions are put in place to funnel through journeys onto the main roads.

    If we had joined up thinking in SA, we could have ended up with the railway trenched or elevated all the way from before the Morphett Road crossing to after the Brighton Road crossing. This would have been a priceless opportunity to reclaim the rail corridor in an area that has a critical shortage of public open space, including space for better active transport links which are currently hampered by the Warradale-Hove area being split in two by the rail corridor with poor access across the divide.
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 14:26

    Last edited by justapassenger on 04 Dec 2013 14:36; edited 1 time in total
      yoyoman Junior Train Controller

    Location: Adelaide, SA
    This afternoon's trip.  

    Scheduled:  16.30 depart Adelaide RS, depart Marino at 17.02, arrive Noarlunga Centre at 17.17

    Actual:        16.30 depart Adelaide RS, depart Marino at 17.10, arrive Noarlunga Centre at 17.27

    57 minute trip from Adelaide to NC and I wouldn't say there was any significant delay at any point that would account for arriving 10 minutes late.

    But it's a temporary timetable, so that makes it OK to run 10 minutes late and take 57 minutes in total travel time - I forgot 8)
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 19:25

    Last edited by yoyoman on 04 Dec 2013 19:28; edited 1 time in total
      Dingo2013 Station Staff

    Location: Banned
    well maybe it was due to it being peak hour and a large amount of people were alighting at each station if it was an all stopper, also bikes, strollers and wheelchairs would add to the delay.
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 20:05
      2001 The Snow Lord

    Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
    Intriguing it will be how they will manage keeping the machinery flowing smoothly from February. 7.5 minute intervals between peak services on the Seaford, and the necessity to shoehorn the Tonsley services in the TT. People who flew the banner for frequent services don't come a whining when your train delays cause a massive domino effect.
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 20:30

    Last edited by 2001 on 04 Dec 2013 20:31; edited 1 time in total
      2001 The Snow Lord

    Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
    Also there is a rumour - a R-U-M-O-U-R  circulating that the there won't be a shutdown of the entire network in January to facilitate completion of electrification works in the Adelaide Yard. Same RUMOUR goes on to inform that the Government will use weekend closures and/or service reductions to get the wires up and sparking at Adelaide Central.

    Getting close to polling time, they can't risk any more commuter angst ...
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 20:45

    Last edited by 2001 on 04 Dec 2013 20:46; edited 1 time in total
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    Adelaide pax do need learn to get on and off promptly.

    Yoyoman you must know something about railways such that you can venture a reason for the delays.

    NOTE TO ALL

    On another forum it was stated, with some authority, that the 40 kph past a yellow aspect is NOT in the rule book but is just a work practice. See my earlier post suggesting  marking each signal with a yellow disc carrying a safe speed to pass the signal at amber. 40 kph may be appropriate on the up track off the Commercial Road viaduct but not elsewhere.

    Ian
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 20:45
      2001 The Snow Lord

    Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
    Adelaide pax do need learn to get on and off promptly.
    steam4ian
    Yes.

    First to teach the people standing on the platform to WAIT until those who want to get OFF the train, have done so

    Commonsense and courtesy. Not hard at all.
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 20:50
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    Caught the train today. My impression ... under whelming.
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 21:05
      yoyoman Junior Train Controller

    Location: Adelaide, SA
    Adelaide pax do need learn to get on and off promptly.

    Yoyoman you must know something about railways such that you can venture a reason for the delays.

    Ian
    steam4ian
    There's 14 platform stops between Adelaide and Marino (excluding Wayville) on the 1630 service.  If you spend an additional 25-35 seconds over the timetabled time unloading passengers, add in a few TSR's here and there, such as past Wayville platforms etc, then you can quite easily lose 8 minutes in that section.

    I got on the 0611 train this morning at NC and arrived at 0658 (i think or 0656??) so that was a good run and arrived as timetabled.  I think the main difference is that there are not as many people on that service at that time of morning compared to the 2 full carriages on the way home and put the main delays down to passenger loading.

    I shall continue with an open mind.................1 or 2 services don't give a good read on potential problems/reasons however they remain to frustrate me, although at this stage it does feel suspiciously like another case of DPTI's 'optimistic' timetabling.  LaughingLaughingShocked
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 21:22

    Last edited by yoyoman on 04 Dec 2013 21:31; edited 3 times in total
      SAR520SMBH Train Controller

    Agreed steam4ian and 2001. A lot of passengers around Adelaide are too slow to move, impatient or disorganised. The wingnuts with their faces buried in their phone or tablet with ear phones in, completely oblivious to what's going on around them, are the worst.
    Posted: 04 Dec 2013 22:18

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