Forrestfield airport link [FAL]

 
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller

The next stop after Butler for the Perth urban rail network is Forrestfield via the airport, I though I'd start a new thread to talk about the project and what we know so far, Transport minister & Treasurer Troy Buswell is adamant the line's going ahead and he's also noted that the line could be underground for the full 12-15 kilometres spurring off from Bayswater station to a consolidated airport terminal and then continuing onto terminate in High Wycombe, more information on the project can be found on the get the bigger picture website, the full project development plan (PDP) will be released in March next year

http://getthebiggerpicture.wa.gov.au/forrestfield-airport-link/

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/20400444/wa-libs-moot-underground-airport-link/

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  SantaFe5811 Station Staff

Location: Perth, Western Australia
Where are you getting this 'never coming back' thing from?   A good reason why I don't post here much more...
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Are they going to pay for it with real money or monopoly money? lol
  LL10194 Station Master

Location: Perth
It is also interesting to read how this was reported by the ABC:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-19/treasurer-suggests-airport-link-could-be-built-entirely-undergr/5167158?section=wa

Near the bottom of the article - The airport train is expected to take its first passengers in 2020.

The Public Transport for Perth in 2031 report had the airport link as a stage two project, and on page 28 states 'A railway connection to Perth will be required by around 2031.'

So if the line in the ABC report is correct, then clearly several transport priorites are being reshuffled.
  murray Assistant Commissioner

I think you have missed a word from the heading
the word infrastructure needs to be inserted between airport and link
  Northmetro Junior Train Controller
  GS4 Train Controller

I think you have missed a word from the heading
the word infrastructure needs to be inserted between airport and link
murray

LOL  Very Happy
  Kafoopsy Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth, WA
The plan looks good, but Forrestfield Station can only just be called so.  Dundas Road is a long way from most of Forrestfield.  Perhaps they could spend a little more money and put the station near Forrestfield shopping centre.
  ADG612 Locomotive Fireman

I'm surprised they've gone for a tunnel the whole way option, like how could that be not much more expensive than building it partly above ground.Does any one know the cost difference ? and where exactly is the airport west station meant to be. I think it would make sense to build a station on great eastern highway so it can connect with the buses going down the highway. I live in High Wycombe and although Dundas road station would be ok for me and most people in High Wycombe, its an isolated area and out of the way for people for Kalamunda and Forrestfield and Maidia Vale road isn't suitable for large volumes of traffic in its present condition. It would be better if it were extended another 2 km with the station close to Roe highway and kalamunda rd so that the people coming from Kalamunda can drive down Kalamunda rd and have easy access to it while the people from Forrestfield can easily access it from Roe highway or from Hawtin road. And I think this should be apart of mark Mc Gownens circle rout rail plan and then Perth airport would be accessible by public trantport from all over Perth rather than just the CBD.
  Bulbous Assistant Commissioner

Much as the Forrestfield Station location is poor currently (and half of the station catchment is taken up by the marshalling yards on the west side of it), the plan is to take the existing special rural land on the east side of Dundas Road between Maida Vale Road and Berkshire Road and rezone for higher denisty residential, rather than the original plan for that land to become light industrial zoned land. The angle of the station also allows for onward tunneling (bored or cut and cover) along Dundas and Berkshire towards the Forrestfield shopping area in the future.

As for the location out on Roe/Kalamunda intersection, the interchange would need to be a part of this project, which would add another $70+ million to the estimated costs, and the access would largely be the same as the current plan. The only thing being that the traffic levels on Maida Vale Road from Kalamunda Road will be vastly increased over the current levels, so expect that the intersection of Kalamunda Road and Maida Vale Road will be upgraded (probably with traffic lights too) and the sharp corner between there and the highway will be changed in alignment.

Sadly though, even with the increase in desity under the proposed zoning change, the land closest to the station will be allocated to open air carparks (2000 spaces plus) rather than having a station area TOD style plan. This station will still largely be a park'n'ride, kiss'n'ride, and bus interchange setup, and not really a properly integrated station in the area itself. I would prefer that the station was located east of Dundas Road in the special rural land area, with purposed built TODs surrounding it rather than carparks. This would also allow closer access right out to the Roe Highway median to have less tunnelling on the future sections out to Forrestfield to reduce further costs.
  Northmetro Junior Train Controller

A few thoughts on some of the recent questions in this thread

Additional tunnelling - getting across the Swan river and Great Eastern Highway above ground wouldn't be cheap either - the visual intrusion for the residential properties near Brearley Ave and the need to go from above ground to below ground near the complex road interchanges approaching T3/4 may also be factors. One of the big costs will be getting the tunnel boring machine here and installing it underground. Once it's there, the marginal cost of extra tunnel is lower.

Airport West Station - my guess is it will be close to all the office developments near T3/4 - I'm sure that even though the consolidated terminal should be taking all the scheduled traffic by 2018, nobody will be banking on it. What if there is another GFC and global air traffic falls off?. I'm sure the station position will be close enough to T3/4 to walk. And if T3/4 are defunct by then, all that existing car parking space could make another park & ride station.

Forrestfield Station Location - I think there is enough evidence from recent station construction that the whole arrangement of local bus services will be refocused to serve the new station. While this may deter some, the benefit will be a much faster transit time to the CBD than anything currently on offer due to the major obstacle of the airport.

And some questions so far unanswered.

- What provision has been made for new trains? Will there be any special design features (e.g. luggage racks) for airport passengers? Where will they be maintained? (Claisebrook, Nowergup or a new site?)
- What is the service pattern likely to be? Turning all trains round in Perth is likely to cause some congestion - possibly some use could be made of the Daglish turnback to increase frequency to Subiaco. And possibly some services heading to the north (at least off-peak) would avoid air passengers with luggage transferring between stations in Perth (better than it used to be but still a disincentive with a heavy suitcase).
- Is there a future (very long term) opportunity when the Midland line gets saturated with trains (i.e. Ellenbrook as well as Forrestfield) to continue the airport route in tunnel to the city. This would create an opportunity for city centre stations closer to the concentrations of hotels?
  Wallip Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth
Regarding cost differences, I think tgere is a bit of political spin, however here is my comparism.

The original main proposal had the line spur off at Bayswater, cross Guildford Rd at Ground level before a short dug out tunnel to come up in the middle of Tonkin Hwy using the ssme bridge to cross the river before heading underground towards T3/T4 and beyond.
This was slightly revised when people objected to a level crossing at Guildford Rd, therefore a longer cut and cover tunnel was proposed to go under Guildford Rd.

When the Mandurah line was built, the existing Mt Henry Bridge required considerable strenghening to take the new trains. Even then, the ballast trains were not to operate during afternoon peak to keep the weight on the bridge down.
Therefore I wonder if Redcliff Bridge has the came issues, adding expense to the Above Ground Option.
  ADG612 Locomotive Fireman

Its probably too late now, but I wonder if a light light down great eastern highway would be a better alternative. That way, the light rail could drop passengers off at or near the front door of many hotels on Great Eastern highway and ST Georges terrace.
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller
  ALCO4401 Train Controller

Location: On the Branch waiting for a train order, west of Tarana
Great,
Just another way for the locals at High Wycombe to escape. Better than jumping on ore trains, thinking they are going to Kal, only to wakeup and find out their in Mt Walton.
Seriously, I think it will be good, as unless you drive, there is no way to get to Forrestfield Industrial area. Makes it very hard to work there. I would consider catching the train all the way from Waikiki once its built. Save me 30K on the car each year.
  ADG612 Locomotive Fireman

Great,
Just another way for the locals at High Wycombe to escape. Better than jumping on ore trains, thinking they are going to Kal, only to wakeup and find out their in Mt Walton.
Seriously, I think it will be good, as unless you drive, there is no way to get to Forrestfield Industrial area. Makes it very hard to work there. I would consider catching the train all the way from Waikiki once its built. Save me 30K on the car each year.
ALCO4401

The bus service out here is very bad, and so you really need a car if you live here. The bus to Perth is ok , but it takes a while.The bus to  Midland  only runs once an hour and not much better in peak hour and thats not good because it makes connecting to the Midland line difficult and all the shops are in Midland while there's not much in Highwycombe. The bus to Kewdale and Belmont only runs a few times a day and so catching a bus to work is out of the question. Its hard to believe how public transport can that bad in some areas and how its importance is often overlooked. A train line here will be very appreciated by many people.
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/wa-transport-minister-dean-nalder-very-comfortable-22-billion-airport-rail-costing-is-accurate/story-fnhocxo3-1227023352892


“Our costings have included the stations, the car parking, the rail, we’re looking at 24 additional carriages for the Forrestfield Airport Link, as well as 26 rigid buses. So our costings are quite comprehensive, but we’re not wanting to detail those at this point while we go through that negotiating process.”

The document released today shows the cost to operate the line in its first year has been estimated at $35.7 million, with revenue from fares, car parking and advertising offsetting that by $10.5 million.

Ongoing annual operational costs have been estimated at about $37 million, with revenue offset of almost $14 million.

The service is expected to generate 20,000 passenger boardings by 2021, according to document, and increasing to 29,000 by 2031.

The project’s website states operating hours will be the same as the broader suburban rail service — typically between 5.00am and 12.30am.

Mr Nalder, however, today said the airport’s commitment to build a third runway by 2019 would change the window times for FIFO workers flying in and out.

He indicated the Government would look at commencing rail services an hour earlier, but there was no analysis of the extra cost.

The public transport authority have released a detailed project definition plan which can be viewed at http://forrestfieldairportlink.wa.gov.au/

Operating hours 5am to 12:30am
No extra charge for the Airport station
Services will run to Daglish during peak hours (might annoy the
4,100 trips to/from Airport West, 6,100  at Airport and 9,800 at Forrestfield each day, journey times of 15, 18 and 20 minutes to Perth from each. Implies stopping all stations as Perth/Bayswater is 11 to 12 mins. Trains will stop at East Perth to allow connections to TransWA
Stations will fit up to 6car trains. Airport West and Consolidated Airport are underground, Forrestfield is ground level.
Designed to allow a future connection to Thornlie and thus Mandurah line
$73 million for buses and trains
DDA upgrade of Bayswater included
Images of concept station designs


Additional 24 3car B series trains... For a grand total of 92 3car B series trains




http://youtube.com/watch?v=oSMoA-U3Wmk
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Timetable issues?

http://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/flaw-in-airport-rail-link-timetable
  gmanning1 Junior Train Controller

Location: Sydney
Timetable issues?

http://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/flaw-in-airport-rail-link-timetable

Transport Minister Dean Nalder said yesterday that the Government believed about 10 per cent of projected boardings at the airport station - 6100 a day when it opens in 2020 - would be FIFO workers.

"We may need to look at commencing the services up to an hour earlier. Our analysis and patronage hasn't included that."

bevans


What would the point be of running the airport link in the early hours of the morning when the rest of the connecting system doesn't run anyhow? I can't imagine many FIFO workers living in the Perth CBD, more likely in the suburbs.

When would they do maintenance? No railway system in Australia runs regular 24 hour passenger services, even ones with an airport link.

Why would the news be discussing timetables when the link isn't even built yet? There is already a public bus service to the airport and it has never been run 24/7, probably due to the lack of demand.
  antiussentiment Locomotive Driver

Location: perth
$2 Billion??  That was nearly the cost of the whole Mandurah line.  I'd like a line to the airport please, but I don't want it to cost a fortune..

I suspect this is another case of a conservative government lining the pockets of it's corporate mates?  

Yes I'm looking at you Roe 8!!
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller

youtube.com/watch?v=PA2Ubgc0znw

The grand vision for Perth airport looks incredible
  Mouse Chief Train Controller

Location:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/wa-transport-minister-dean-nalder-very-comfortable-22-billion-airport-rail-costing-is-accurate/story-fnhocxo3-1227023352892


“Our costings have included the stations, the car parking, the rail, we’re looking at 24 additional carriages for the Forrestfield Airport Link, as well as 26 rigid buses. So our costings are quite comprehensive, but we’re not wanting to detail those at this point while we go through that negotiating process.”
...

Additional 24 3car B series trains... For a grand total of 92 3car B series trains
"thewaratahtrain"


I read it as 24 railcars meaning 8 x 3 car sets - which would be 76 total, assuming they are B series rather than a currently unannounced "C series".
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller

I think they'll be B series hope it's an additional 24 3car sets the more the better, maybe some of the first generation original worn out ones will be used on the Forrestfield line
  Kafoopsy Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth, WA
I wish they wouldn't refer to railcars as individual carriages.  The trains always run as three carriage sets and should be considered as a single train or 'railcar.'  The government saying that it is buying 24 railcars when what it actually means is 8 trains is nothing but hype to sound better than it really is.
  Northmetro Junior Train Controller

A few more observations on the available information.

If 8 3-car sets are to be added, this indicates either that the initial service will be 3-car trains only or the Midland line service will be reduced or a combination.

  • Forrestfield - Daglish approx 30 minutes

  • 10 minute turn round at either end

  • Services likely to fit in with existing peak period 10 minute pattern

  • Indicating 8 trains to operate on an 80 minute round trip time


Or it could indicate that the initial service will be only 20 minutes during the peak. But unless there are some platform extensions on existing stations, 6 cars will not fit anyway

Airport West looks like it will be park & ride. How will the use of station car park by air passengers be prevented. Current airport parking costs $20 a day or more but rail commuters won't pay that much. So if the standard $2 Transperth charge is applied, there will need to be significant enforcement effort

Even if the line isn't planned to operate overnight initially, it is unlikely the significant number of international arrivals & departures during the night will change due to the timing of connecting flights to/from Europe. So to allow for a future extension of operating hours as air traffic rises, will there be bidirectional signalling between Forrestfield and Perth? This will allow a reduced overnight service to operate on one track while track maintenance is carried out on the other.

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