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Toolamba - Echuca line reopening

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      RustyRick Chief Commissioner

    Location: South West Vic
    Kyabram Free Press reported that the train was going via Bendigo beacause some of the crossings had poor sight distances, restricting the speed to 30 km/h. Supoosedly fixed now, and speeds will go up to 50...

    Rick
    Posted: 16 Nov 2013 21:08

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      LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

    Location: Not in Victoria
    Trains will be operating across this section very soon again.
    Posted: 20 Nov 2013 19:17
      emmastreet Train Controller

    Location: Goulburn Valley
    Glad I'm not hanging by the fingernails while I'm waiting.
    And yes I know trains will probably be running over this line whilst the Bendigo shutdown is on but what's the betting they will be back via Bendigo at the end of Jan.
    It appears Qube don't want to run via Toolamba so that is that.
    Posted: 18 Dec 2013 17:10
      waynes Junior Train Controller

    Location: Victoria
    Trains will be operating across this section very soon again.
    LowndesJ515

    Thks for the information.  is the plan to run only two trains per day or will this be expanded if the containerised grain also comes onto rail?
    Posted: 18 Dec 2013 20:12
      mickamious Junior Train Controller

    First off,  Freight Trains breaking down is VERY common?!....Sorry, but ANY train can break down ANYWHERE! And as mentioned, if the train was to break down between Seymour and Melb, what will happen then? The line doesn't have the option of doing bi-directional running like the Bendigo Line. And what if a VLP train breaks down and screws up the rest of the services? Many times an ON TIME running freight train has been pushed back several hours all because of a broken down suburban train or VLP. In my short few years on the footplate I have NEVER caused delays to traffic due to a break down. If your going to make accusation's like that, at least do your research.

    Also, Confidential (which you spelt wrong anyway) means exactly that....so why are you putting it up on a public forum?!

    Thumbs up for a top effort!
    G41

    I took the information as confidential mate but there's were no documents saying 'Strictly Confidential' so i can go say whatever i please as i worked on the project but as we discussed with all the track works and signal men, we knew there would be major issues soon after opening.
    The track condition is very, very poor, sleepers are in horrible condition and the train re-alignment didn't go aswell as they had hoped (Considering how damage the sleepers were)
    Thank you for correcting my spelling errors, i do appreciate it and i do appreciate you taking the time to thoroughly go over all my spelling and correct it as i really couldn't be bothered re-reading it all and correcting it to satisfy your needs but no problems.

    Going by the statistics of VLine, it shows breakdowns of the freight train (I don't know which loco # etc) are more likely to occur towards the end route of the line so by making the freight service go through Toolamba to Echuca removes any possibility of this causing any hold ups on the main line.
    Your looking at the facts wrong, by removing the freight train onto another section of track there keeping both tracks on the Bendigo line at 100% operating capacity. The line is there, why not use it?

    Whether you like it or not mate, the fact of the matter is to remove the freight service from off the main line and onto it's own dedicated line.
    VLine etc have there own reasons but to what i know, it's to remove the freight service off the main line as i stated above.
    Posted: 19 Dec 2013 16:51

    Last edited by mickamious on 19 Dec 2013 16:55; edited 1 time in total
      mickamious Junior Train Controller

    Hi Grosso - understand what you're saying but the only time now a breakdown won't affect V/Line trains is if the breakdown occurs between Echuca & Toolamba. Between Toolamba and Seymour you'll hold up the Shep's and south of Seymour you'll hold up the Seymour's as well. Having said that, there's probably more Bendigo trains so it's probably still the right decision.
    Ballast_Plough
    Correct mate,

    But as i stated just above, statics that VLine has shows the breakdowns are more likely to happen from Toolamba onwards so obviously there looking at the bigger picture. If a break down was to occur on this individual track there wouldn't be an affect to the main line.


    Apologies for my delay in replying as i'm not always checking Railpage.com.au and we have a big upgrade coming up on the Bendigo line over the Christmas break so alot of my attention has gone into planning for those works.
    Posted: 19 Dec 2013 16:55

    Last edited by mickamious on 19 Dec 2013 16:58; edited 2 times in total
      Ballast_Plough Chief Commissioner

    Location: Lilydale, Vic
    It would be good if you could quote the source of your statistics because at the moment it's really just hearsay. Lately all the derailments and breakdowns seem to be in the Melbourne Terminal area.
    Posted: 19 Dec 2013 23:41
      mickamious Junior Train Controller

    It would be good if you could quote the source of your statistics because at the moment it's really just hearsay. Lately all the derailments and breakdowns seem to be in the Melbourne Terminal area.
    Ballast_Plough

    I understand BUT when we were upgrading the crossing between Merrigum to Kyabram all the details that were spoken were spoken from the VLine representative as we like to ask questions into why the works are occurring. I'm only going by what our VLine representative told us prior to commencement of works when we had our first site meeting.

    All the track work information detail i was told by VLine signalmen and also the subcontractors doing the upgrades..
    Posted: 20 Dec 2013 17:48
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Grosso,

    DO you think Vline has an agenda to remove or curtail freight on their existing lines?

    Regards
    Brian
    Posted: 20 Dec 2013 18:06
      mickamious Junior Train Controller

    Grosso,

    DO you think Vline has an agenda to remove or curtail freight on their existing lines?

    Regards
    Brian
    bevans

    I believe VLine has an agenda to use existing rail lines that are unused solely for freight, if that's what your asking, then yes, yes i do. Reasons being it would mean VLine has more flexibility and freedom in there timetable as VLine is soon to be introducing 9 carriage Velocities.. Can explain more about this into detail as we've been awarded a tender relating to these works.
    Posted: 20 Dec 2013 18:24
      trainbrain Chief Commissioner

    I assume the the Deni Rice train will be travelling via this route for the next few weeks............................
    Posted: 27 Dec 2013 19:35
      monday Chief Commissioner

    There's bugger all pax trains on the line between 2200 and 0400, so what's the problem of using BGO?

    Capacity may well be an issue during the day, but outside of those hours it's clearly not.
    Posted: 27 Dec 2013 20:09
      comtrain Chief Commissioner

    Location: Near Albury Wodonga
    I. would take a guess and say its the old staffing problem?
    In my day you had many trains running up and down the Bendigo track all night long. You spread the cost of signal men and train controllers over all of them. Obviously I am out of date, and wonder how many staff need to be employed to run a goods train after the last VLP service, but I am guessing some?

    So adding the trains to the NE, is simply a cost saving device.They say you save.  two and a half times the paid wage, if you can rid yourself of employees. so about $150k p a for each person you don't have to hire.


    Cheers
    Rod
    Posted: 29 Dec 2013 11:58
      LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

    Location: Not in Victoria
    I. would take a guess and say its the old staffing problem?
    In my day you had many trains running up and down the Bendigo track all night long. You spread the cost of signal men and train controllers over all of them. Obviously I am out of date, and wonder how many staff need to be employed to run a goods train after the last VLP service, but I am guessing some?

    So adding the trains to the NE, is simply a cost saving device.They say you save.  two and a half times the paid wage, if you can rid yourself of employees. so about $150k p a for each person you don't have to hire.


    Cheers
    Rod
    comtrain
    The Bendigo line is controlled out of Melbourne at Centrol. Sunshine signaller for Metro, Brooklyn Area Controller for Tottenham. There are two signallers at Echuca.

    The Seymour line has Via Sunshine Brooklyn Area Controller, Sunshine Signal Box, Adelaide Train Control (Albion -Jacana), Craigieburn Panel (Metro), Wallan, Kilmore East, Broadford, Seymour then the two at Echuca which have to travel to Toolamba each time a train uses the junction. If going via Essendon, then the Metrol signallers followed by Kensington then the same from Craigieburn to Echuca.
    Posted: 29 Dec 2013 17:17
      monday Chief Commissioner

    It's like some archaic throw back to another time - it would be funny, except for the fact that its now 2014 (almost), and this underperformance of train control seriously affects the freight task (given it has to run at night for path availability) if parts of the network are 'closed' due to no staff being on.

    One would expect "train control" to be manned 24 hours per day, and let the train crews attend to the physical safeworking (like points / signals) in field...
    Posted: 29 Dec 2013 19:26
      duttonbay Minister for Railways

    It's like some archaic throw back to another time - it would be funny, except for the fact that its now 2014 (almost), and this underperformance of train control seriously affects the freight task (given it has to run at night for path availability) if parts of the network are 'closed' due to no staff being on.

    One would expect "train control" to be manned 24 hours per day, and let the train crews attend to the physical safeworking (like points / signals) in field...
    "monday"

    You are the one who wants this train to run overnight. There are lots of other considerations, including the customer: when should the containers be loaded?  There's a very good reason why the current timetable has the train arriving at Deniliquin at 1245 and departing at 1700.  That suits the customer, and allows a train 4 hours or so at Melbourne to turn around. Even if the customer was happy for the train to arrive at Deni at two or three o'clock in the morning, you cannot run both the down and up trains to Deniliquin during the period passenger trains are not running.
    Posted: 29 Dec 2013 21:05
      G41 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Footplate of any K class
    Train control is a 24hr, 7 day a week operation! The signal boxes on the metro lines are 24hrs and only closed on a Saturday Night APLT.

    The regional boxes are only as required, it's much easier to run via Bendigo than Toolamba.

    I wouldn't be taking a "Vline Rep" talk about breakdowns and "statistics" to be gospel either! In my few years in the footplate I've never ONCE broken down towards "the end of the line" as stated. In fact, there has been more times that I've waited for f*** ups to clear from VLP or Metro before continuing on! Where is that in there "statistics"!
    Posted: 30 Dec 2013 08:26
      Catdog Station Staff

    Location: Koyuga, Victoria, Australia
    The train ran via Toolamba this morning.  Down service rattled through Koyuga at 1000
    Posted: 30 Dec 2013 10:19
      awsgc24 Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney
    ...
    Posted: 30 Dec 2013 10:42
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    The train ran via Toolamba this morning.  Down service rattled through Koyuga at 1000
    Catdog

    Thanks for sharing.

    Anyone know what was on this train in terms of Locos and from where did it depart Melbourne? I ask this only because of the occupation and the issue of getting out of Melbourne.
    Posted: 30 Dec 2013 10:52

    Last edited by bevans on 30 Dec 2013 11:17; edited 2 times in total
      emmastreet Train Controller

    Location: Goulburn Valley
    I didn't see it but I'm told it was through Tatura shortly after 09.00 as G, S, wagons, T class.
    Sorry but no loco nos. given.
    Posted: 30 Dec 2013 14:12
      Catdog Station Staff

    Location: Koyuga, Victoria, Australia
    G515, S303 & Steamrail T on the rear.  Didn't count the wagons, though a lot were empty
    Posted: 30 Dec 2013 17:55
      LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

    Location: Not in Victoria
    G515, S303 & Steamrail T on the rear.  Didn't count the wagons, though a lot were empty
    Catdog
    G515, S303 - 9 Empty Container Wagons then 19 Empty flats followed by T395.

    First time the train had run at 50km/h on the cross country section. Was quite smooth which was great but a hell of a lot of dust along the whole section. Mananged to clear a tree with chains from the G Class, only missed about 3 cars and had a bull trying to stare the train down near Kyabram.

    Train departs the Docks at 04.15 and travels to Flinders St, then travels up via Essendon through Seymour to Echuca. Same on the return leg.

    Soonish this train will be departing Melbourne at 18.50 travelling via Toolamba full time. Departing Deni at 06.00 to come back to Melbourne.
    Posted: 31 Dec 2013 11:38
      emmastreet Train Controller

    Location: Goulburn Valley
    Rice train ran via Bendigo yesterday (20/1).
    Posted: 21 Jan 2014 07:12
      emmastreet Train Controller

    Location: Goulburn Valley
    Today's Shepparton "News" has a story on why the line is not being used. http://www.sheppartonnews.com.au

    Also they have posed the question on their Facebook page: what could the Victorian Government have spent the $7.2 million on instead?    facebook,com/sheppartonnews
    Posted: 24 Jan 2014 11:36

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