Austrains site updated

 
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Sorry, only when I got home I realised thatmistake. All photos are all the photos warty and all that I took. Hopefullyanyone going tomorrow can recitfy that.

Regards,
David  Head

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  bjviper Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisvegas
Not a problem.  I'd imagine there will be a newsletter soon with photos, but it's good to see Austrains picking up the ball with the display cabinet and actively showing off upcoming models.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
PL carriages order form (only for those without an aversion to pre-ordering) : http://www.austrains.com.au/orderforms/of_pl_series_passenger.pdf
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
One thing for sure a bit of a banana bend in the underframe and body is going to be a bit more prototypical. They nearly all had this problem and were not called Bouncing Passenger Lounges for nothing! Laughing

Anyone got any ideas on how to achieve this in the models though!
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
Just wondering if anyone's able to clarify which livery the PL carriages will be supplied in (Crimson Lake vs. Bright Red)?
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
PL carriages order form (only for those without an aversion to pre-ordering) : http://www.austrains.com.au/orderforms/of_pl_series_passenger.pdf
Poath Junction

Ha Ha
Mindful though that this  is "pre-ordering" not PRE-PAYING which most of us have an aversion to Wink
For me it was a hell of a lot easier to wait all these years for the G Class than the R Class! My Visa card has been updated twice at Austrains, and the only G I paid for so far was the one I picked up at Corio at the pre-ordered price I should add.
Cheers
Rod
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Just wondering if anyone's able to clarify which livery the PL carriages will be supplied in (Crimson Lake vs. Bright Red)?
TheMeddlingMonk

I ordered set 1 and set 3 And I must admit I presumed as livery was not mentioned, they would be the red as they finished in service.   I do hope they are NOT Crimson Sad Email off to Austrains, but I suspect that their is simply not enough people out there to support the early colour considering it will cost an importer many thousands extra for each color change?  I think they use highly accurate per-coloured plastic in the moldings  these days?
Cheers
Rod
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
I ordered set 1 and set 3 And I must admit I presumed as livery was not mentioned, they would be the red as they finished in service. I do hope they are NOT Crimson Sad Email off to Austrains, but I suspect that their is simply not enough people out there to support the early colour considering it will cost an importer many thousands extra for each color change? I think they use highly accurate per-coloured plastic in the moldings these days?
Cheers
Rod
comtrain

I did some quick checking and given the date BCPL 15 and 25 came into existence (1968 and 1971 respectively, according to pjv101.net), packs 2 and 3 would be red (assuming a complete transition occurred around 1953/54). Pack 1 could go either way, as all three cars existed in both the crimson lake and bright red time periods (somebody with more information than me may be able to state exactly when the cars carried these liveries).
  Thumpa Chief Train Controller

Location: That's on a need to know basis.
Taken at the TOK today at lunch time.
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Thumpa,

Pardon my ignorance but what's a TOK?

Happy deciphering,

John
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Thumpa,

Pardon my ignorance but what's a TOK?

Happy deciphering,

John
c3526blue

You need to be a Stonecutter, or son of a Stonecutter, to learn the secrets of the Table Of Knowledge.
  ajarmstrong Beginner

You need to be a Stonecutter, or son of a Stonecutter, to learn the secrets of the Table Of Knowledge.
Poath Junction

or grandson?
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Not a site update as such, just a "LHG's are being posted" update - mine arrived in Melbourne today.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

TOK today at lunch time.

Edit: Already answered, but

I thought another model railway supplier was going to do those dog boxes that are pictured from the post posted at the end of Jan.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Edit: Already answered, but

I thought another model railway supplier was going to do those dog boxes that are pictured from the post posted at the end of Jan.
Newcastle Express

Dogs breakfast these days.   Some are already available as kits by others, were on some long ago futures list as well.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

No "bang a head against wall" smiley? Embarassed(Oh he'll do)
I thought this was the Auscision thread

(Note to self, don't type when you don't fell well!)
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
(Note to self, don't type when you don't fell well!)
Newcastle Express

Or even "feel well".

LHG first impressions: They look pretty darn good!

Box is designed a bit different so at first glance it looks like its not robust (and will in fact bend/crease/squish a bit in transit, however the inner plastic protector is strong so models are protected. Once you do take the plastic lid off it's a devil to get back on!

The models paintwork & part detail/quality is excellent (a good weathering will really bring them to life) however there are two common issues across my 4 models - buffer heads often not square to the body & truss rod not correctly located in the queen post support (well more correctly the truss posts aren't all vertical, so some meet the truss rods at the wrong spot). Buffer head problem easily rectified in seconds by removing them and reinserting without overdoing it - push too far and then they go out of square again. Squaring up any out of alignment of truss posts should also be a quick procedure.

As always happens these days there was a small thing loose in the box, took me forever to figure it out as it was the rodding between the brake shoes - until now not many models have had rodding between the brake shoes, hence it's the last place you'd look! The bogies have been very well detailed with the rodding, and unlike many other super detailed models it's been designed to allow you to remove the wheels if need be - to do so you have to get the wheel past the brakeshoe rods and that's only possible if the rod is removable. Only one of 8 bogies had the lose bit, the other 7 bogies can be poked & handled and their rods show no sign of coming out unintentionally. Beyond that brake rod everything else appears to be well attached to my 4 models.

The model is very well detailed in all the usual areas you can see when its on the track, however the out of sight areas have not been missed either. Turn the van upside down and you'll marvel at all the extra little bits that aren't usually included.

EDIT:
1. I've fixed my buffer heads, a slight twist to ease off the pressure is all that's needed.
2. Truss posts and truss rods appear to be glued/welded together so maybe not so easy to fix the slight alignment issue. They're fairly well hidden behind the steps so not a major visual issue.
3. Those brake shoe rods are a nightmare to re-insert! While doing that I had a close look at the bogie and can see it's been designed quite cleverly, and therein was the problem of my escaping rods - there's a basic bogie that determines the wheelbase & holds the axle, then a second assembly that has the springs, axle box, brakeshoes, etc. This would make it very simple (from a manufacturing perspective) to make bogies with modified features without going through the hassle of making a whole bogie, all they have to tool up is a new cosmetic sideframe (springs and axel box). This method also allows the springs and axle box to be made a lot thinner (prototypically accurate) as they're not load bearing. In my problem bogie that second assembly was probably pushed out of place when the model went into the box with its devilishly hard to close plastic liner, I could see the outer (cosmetic) frame was bent allowing the brake shoe rods to fall from their mounting lugs. A quick poke got the bogie all square as should be, which in turn now made it hard to reinsert the fallen rods!
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Michael.S
A n easy to read and understand description. Well written and much appreciated appraisal
Cheers
Rod Y
  a6et Minister for Railways

Snip
EDIT:
1. I've fixed my buffer heads, a slight twist to ease off the pressure is all that's needed.
2. Truss posts and truss rods appear to be glued/welded together so maybe not so easy to fix the slight alignment issue. They're fairly well hidden behind the steps so not a major visual issue.
3. Those brake shoe rods are a nightmare to re-insert! While doing that I had a close look at the bogie and can see it's been designed quite cleverly, and therein was the problem of my escaping rods - there's a basic bogie that determines the wheelbase & holds the axle, then a second assembly that has the springs, axle box, brakeshoes, etc. This would make it very simple (from a manufacturing perspective) to make bogies with modified features without going through the hassle of making a whole bogie, all they have to tool up is a new cosmetic sideframe (springs and axel box). This method also allows the springs and axle box to be made a lot thinner (prototypically accurate) as they're not load bearing. In my problem bogie that second assembly was probably pushed out of place when the model went into the box with its devilishly hard to close plastic liner, I could see the outer (cosmetic) frame was bent allowing the brake shoe rods to fall from their mounting lugs. A quick poke got the bogie all square as should be, which in turn now made it hard to reinsert the fallen rods!
Poath Junction

Michael

Any chance of a photo of the bogie arrangements please.

Its an interesting setup reading what you say regarding the bogies & the way they are produced, maybe in regard to being able to produce more accurate & higher detailed bogies & perhaps cheaper is nice, but the question is at what real cost?

I am all for added on detail for models, but I wonder how far & to what extreme its taken us, especially with so much being made in the Delrin type plastics that are almost impossible to glue when broken or simply come adrift, more especially when the detail that is added cannot be seen to the average eye on a layout.

The Austrains range of 4 wheelers certainly improved detail & brought things to a new level, but with the cheap junk couplers failing & needing to be replaced it can be a job of frustration, made harder by the 2 hand brake rods that cover them, also if one wants to change a wheel the fiddly brake pull rod assembly blocks the way, & needs to be gently prized away, to allow the replacement then try to refit, more often than not it falls off, & another time consuming effort to try & get it back in place again.  On several occasions I have then found the same assembly lying in between the rails, & I am blowed if I am going to go to the trouble of lifting all the wagons to see which one is missing & then go through the assembly process again, & the reason I need to individually check them is that the detail cannot be seen at eye level when stationary at any distance over an arms length, let alone when moving.

The thing then, or question really is, have we gone too far in the area of underfloor detail with this setup?

For some they may be happy but in the end there will come a time when one needs to do work on a wheel or similar & it will be a problem then, also how much of this snazzy new level of bogie springs & brake detail can be seen looking down at an angle of the model?  If it cannot be seen is the detail really necessary at least to that extent?

From my perspective & I have not seen these vans, although will be getting some, I would prefer that they have sliding doors on them, that way some degree of internal detail can be more readily seen than what is under the floor. Guards seats on each side, pot belly stove in the middle of the seats, emergency equipment along the sides between the 2 doors, a wall between the long goods compartment & passenger compartment with seats along the ends, they would be preferable to me.
  Teditor Deputy Commissioner

Location: Toowoomba
Years back, in our club magazine 'Train Talk' (Darling Downs Model Railway Club Inc.), I made a statement about desired details "Be careful what you wish for - YOU MAY JUST GET!"

Seems that threshold is being surpassed!
  a6et Minister for Railways

Years back, in our club magazine 'Train Talk' (Darling Downs Model Railway Club Inc.), I made a statement about desired details "Be careful what you wish for - YOU MAY JUST GET!"

Seems that threshold is being surpassed!
Teditor

Ted

I totally agree.  While I like detail, I believe that the quality is of first importance, the flimsy plastic & delrin stuff, the later of which is fine for many items such as the boilers & tender bodies, has its limits owing to the fact of trying to glue the rotten things back on, & if broken toss it, at least old plastics could be glued.

While the stuff I mention for inside the LHG, would be nice, I am not worried too much about that either, but the appropriate seating & wall would be ok.  My belief is that the amount of underfloor detail is only needed based on what can be reasonably easy to see when the model is stationary at approximately arms length from me, also looking down on it at angle that is roughly at the sternum height of the average male.  If I cannot see it at that angle, its not needed.

After speaking to a producer a couple of years back at the brickpit where we spoke of the detail & cost, he said that the situation is in China now, it does not cost extra to add the detail, as against not having it.  I can therefore understand if that's the case why not put all the bells etc on the models, personally I would rather quality of quantity especialy with the couplers.

Having just completed some mods on early wagons, I had to replace several old couplers with Kadees as they had started to show some failings.
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Ted

I totally agree.  While I like detail, I believe that the quality is of first importance, the flimsy plastic & delrin stuff, the later of which is fine for many items such as the boilers & tender bodies, has its limits owing to the fact of trying to glue the rotten things back on, & if broken toss it, at least old plastics could be glued.

While the stuff I mention for inside the LHG, would be nice, I am not worried too much about that either, but the appropriate seating & wall would be ok.  My belief is that the amount of underfloor detail is only needed based on what can be reasonably easy to see when the model is stationary at approximately arms length from me, also looking down on it at angle that is roughly at the sternum height of the average male.  If I cannot see it at that angle, its not needed.

After speaking to a producer a couple of years back at the brickpit where we spoke of the detail & cost, he said that the situation is in China now, it does not cost extra to add the detail, as against not having it.  I can therefore understand if that's the case why not put all the bells etc on the models, personally I would rather quality of quantity especialy with the couplers.

Having just completed some mods on early wagons, I had to replace several old couplers with Kadees as they had started to show some failings.
"a6et"


I suppose if it costs nothing to have the detail added then most certainly it should be included. We would be going backwards without it. If your not fussed on having models detailed to that level and the detail parts do fall off then you will not have to worry about sticking it back on.

I agree, materials are being pushed to the limits i.e. plastics are being used in very thin sections and the models are becoming less robust. I guess that's why I love brass steam locomotives as the fine detail and body sections are handle resistant.

I think before anything the basic dimensions and features of the model should be correct. Something that is sometimes lacking.

Linton
  a6et Minister for Railways

I suppose if it costs nothing to have the detail added then most certainly it should be included. We would be going backwards without it. If your not fussed on having models detailed to that level and the detail parts do fall off then you will not have to worry about sticking it back on.

I agree, materials are being pushed to the limits i.e. plastics are being used in very thin sections and the models are becoming less robust. I guess that's why I love brass steam locomotives as the fine detail and body sections are handle resistant.

I think before anything the basic dimensions and features of the model should be correct. Something that is sometimes lacking.

Linton
linton78

I have to admit to the concept of it costing no more is certainly strange, although I have heard that there has been also changes in the planning area, or the cad setup for models which is what apparently is the primary area of where the costings come from.  The more correct the originals are, & less mucking about with more than one test shots, is the order of the day, suggesting perhaps the Chinese engineers are coming of age in their abilities, guess the adage of practice makes perfect. Certainly what we are seeing these days are a heck of a big lift & improved on what the fed fair was 5-10 years ago.  

Its not so much being fussed or not, its more the aspect of the robustness of what we are getting, & when something falls off, I generally leave it off, especially if its an item that comes from the bowels of the model, & I am not referring to having working dunnies on them either. What I am referring to is the items that are found at the same level as the underfloor, or in some cases higher & being blocked from view by other items, this often includes some of the air line & brake rigging, I see no reason why the more visible parts of the brake equipment is not all modelled & applied, same thing with the internal detail when such things as sliding doors, open & show a bland interior, rather have that interior have some realistic detail in them, as mentioned at first, the LHG is a classic in that sense that can have that detail in them, if the doors open.

I do not see that the older brass models are any more robust than the plastic variety, other then the aspect of the amount of detail that is added to them, is usually soldered into position, pretty well making them all but totally robust.  Our steam plastic models with plastic shrink applied details are a different matter again, as when they pop, the generally stay popped unless new holes are drilled & hope you can get a decent glue to hold them back in place.

Certainly the starting point has to be the dimensions, & getting them right is the foremost desire, however I am prepared to accept some variance to the models that have to be made in areas of tolerance, which more often than not happens with Steam locomotives, to go around certain radius curves.
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
"especially if its an item that comes from the bowels of the model, & I am not referring to having working dunnies on them either."

Ha ha great Col!

I think brass models are a lot more robust. If I pick up my brass 422 there is no chance of snapping off the air reservoir tank. The plastic version broke within one hour of handling.

The latest plastic 38 side valances flex and squeak when picked up. It felt very flimsy. The brass one is rock solid and when it runs it seems like it weighs 200 ton.

I don't think I have ever broken a detail off a brass loco. No I am wrong, I have had some buffers and valance steps fall off. It's all easily fixed though and ends up as good as new.

Of course. We need to have some compromise as the model needs to operate in a greatly condensed environment. It's things like wood grain that looks like petrified wood that make a good model look terrible.

I suppose this is all a little off topic.

Linton
  a6et Minister for Railways

"especially if its an item that comes from the bowels of the model, & I am not referring to having working dunnies on them either."

Ha ha great Col!

I think brass models are a lot more robust. If I pick up my brass 422 there is no chance of snapping off the air reservoir tank. The plastic version broke within one hour of handling.

The latest plastic 38 side valances flex and squeak when picked up. It felt very flimsy. The brass one is rock solid and when it runs it seems like it weighs 200 ton.

I don't think I have ever broken a detail off a brass loco. No I am wrong, I have had some buffers and valance steps fall off. It's all easily fixed though and ends up as good as new.

Of course. We need to have some compromise as the model needs to operate in a greatly condensed environment. It's things like wood grain that looks like petrified wood that make a good model look terrible.

I suppose this is all a little off topic.

Linton
;olinton78

Linton

If its off topic, its not far off, especially when you mention the woodgrain, as that is a problem with models from Austrains as it is from others as well.

Wood used in the construction of rolling stock, be it ends such as we have with the Austrains GSV & CW, are far too grainy, as bad I think as taking a photo of something in low resolution JPEG format in an old 1mega pixel happy snappy camera & expect it to produce a vivid print on A4.  Timbers used in stock wagons was milled timber which was smooth on all sides, same thing with the door panels on S trucks, which I am wondering whether the new Ultimate S truck coming from Austrains will have smooth or heavily grained doors.

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