A-City trains

 
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
When the power goes off, the aircon is one of the very first things to go off. In fact an aircon failure is the first sign of a more pressing power related issue.

Sponsored advertisement

  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

What ventilation is available from the battery back-up.
"steam4ian"
None outside of a door release, same as on a failed DEMU.

A crowded train on a 40 deg day with out open-able windows and no air con would have people smashing glass or forcing doors open.

Good thing we had some 3000s to push 4002 out of the way.
"steam4ian"
I'm not aware of any windows being smashed or doors being forced on Tuesday and Wednesday this week in the severe heat when less than a half service was being run due to rolling stock issues - there weren't enough able to get out of the yard to run lengthened consists. A number of DEMUs had no air conditioning due it failing or simply being switched off, and some people ended up resigning themselves to putting their health first and getting off at an earlier stop to get some air or buy a cold drink from somewhere before resuming their journey home on the next train.

There will need to be some major changes to operating procedures to make them more suitable for EMU use though, most notably in forming strategies for rapid responses to failures. The most important one will be the development of the necessary safeworking procedures for delayed trains to reverse to the nearest station before the power is taken down to allow an EMU fault ahead of them to be worked on, and compensation of $2/minute offered to passengers any time they are stuck between stations for longer than 15 minutes.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Ian: Someone with specific knowledge of our trains might be able to answer but I don't think in Melbourne the ventilation continues to work at all; it will probably be the same thing with 4000's? There's been quite a few failures at various times here; it's really bad news if it happens in the middle of summer heat or on a really crowded train. If passengers are left there on a hot day for long enough that situation becomes intolerable quickly: People have either pushed the doors open (on Comengs you can just push them open when the power fails) or they've pulled the emergency exit handles and wandered out onto the tracks completely unaware of the fact they can get hit by another train... It happened near Richmond not long ago.
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

None outside of a door release, same as on a failed DEMU.

I'm not aware of any windows being smashed or doors being forced on Tuesday and Wednesday this week in the severe heat when less than a half service was being run due to rolling stock issues - there weren't enough able to get out of the yard to run lengthened consists. A number of DEMUs had no air conditioning due it failing or simply being switched off, and some people ended up resigning themselves to putting their health first and getting off at an earlier stop to get some air or buy a cold drink from somewhere before resuming their journey home on the next train.

There will need to be some major changes to operating procedures to make them more suitable for EMU use though, most notably in forming strategies for rapid responses to failures. The most important one will be the development of the necessary safeworking procedures for delayed trains to reverse to the nearest station before the power is taken down to allow an EMU fault ahead of them to be worked on, and compensation of $2/minute offered to passengers any time they are stuck between stations for longer than 15 minutes.
justapassenger


I'm generally a patient person with delivering information here, but seriously, do you just shoot from the hip and assume you're right? Or one of those people who make stuff up as "correct" instead of just saying you don't know??

Anyway. First point. Wrong. 100% wrong. When the EMU's suffer no voltage from the overheads, the batteries will power emergency lighting (inside and exterior to the train, same as DEMUs), radio, AND FANS FOR CIRCULATION OF AIR. This is different to trams, and DEMU's which obvious do not offer this. The 4000 class EMU however, does.

Second point wrong - Air cond's in the diesel railcars are never "simply being switched off". If the unit isn't on, its because it has a fault. Simply as that.

Third, from someone that has been on this forum a long while like yourself, I would find it abhorrent to suggest a RAILCAR (aside from 2100/2000 or Comeng 3100's) would "reverse". It has drivers cabs at both ends, so can "set back". Anyway, back to the point here, if the power is to be turned off in a planned/by choice sense, OF COURSE all the EMU's will be at a station. The only times they are in no mans land is when the power trips off by external faults (ie: Yesterday was due to a high volume of water gushing onto the overheads at ARS from the unfinished Convention Centre extension.

I just really wish, that before just assuming something is the case, users (not just you) would ask a question, or say they don't know. (For reference, steam4ian's post is what I am referring to).

Cheers
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I'm generally a patient person with delivering information here, but seriously, do you just shoot from the hip and assume you're right? Or one of those people who make stuff up as "correct" instead of just saying you don't know??

Anyway. First point. Wrong. 100% wrong. When the EMU's suffer no voltage from the overheads, the batteries will power emergency lighting (inside and exterior to the train, same as DEMUs), radio, AND FANS FOR CIRCULATION OF AIR. This is different to trams, and DEMU's which obvious do not offer this. The 4000 class EMU however, does.

Second point wrong - Air cond's in the diesel railcars are never "simply being switched off". If the unit isn't on, its because it has a fault. Simply as that.

Third, from someone that has been on this forum a long while like yourself, I would find it abhorrent to suggest a RAILCAR (aside from 2100/2000 or Comeng 3100's) would "reverse". It has drivers cabs at both ends, so can "set back". Anyway, back to the point here, if the power is to be turned off in a planned/by choice sense, OF COURSE all the EMU's will be at a station. The only times they are in no mans land is when the power trips off by external faults (ie: Yesterday was due to a high volume of water gushing onto the overheads at ARS from the unfinished Convention Centre extension.

I just really wish, that before just assuming something is the case, users (not just you) would ask a question, or say they don't know. (For reference, steam4ian's post is what I am referring to).

Cheers
Jumbo2001


Hi were those test runs from Seaford to Adelaide yesterday morning/afternoon to test how the trains perform under torrential rain type conditions or was it merely just a scheduled test run?
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

Hi were those test runs from Seaford to Adelaide yesterday morning/afternoon to test how the trains perform under torrential rain type conditions or was it merely just a scheduled test run?
Milkomeda


I can't remember if I posted it earlier in this thread or not, but anyway, they were scheduled. Every day this week there have been Interpeak scheduled EMU runs from Seaford to Adelaide and return. 4 round trips if my memory serves me correct. If they go again, I'll post the times as I have done in the past.

The rain is just a good thing to test the adhesion the EMU's have under slippery conditions.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Jumbo

Thank you for being an informed person from whom I was seeking an answer.

There are others in the trade on these pages who if they were a little less critical of the amateurs like myself would go a long way to keeping everybody informed and that way squashing a lot of rumours and misinformation.

Thank you also for showing why the power went off, perfectly reasonable and something that can be fixed.

Regards
Ian
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
Second point wrong - Air cond's in the diesel railcars are never "simply being switched off". If the unit isn't on, its because it has a fault. Simply as that.
Jumbo2001

I've been in a 3000 class railcar where 50% of aircon failed. Was on a 40+ day, and unbearable, no sane person would have simply switched it off and not noticed. Lasted one stop before that carriage was vacated entirely by staff and passengers alike, we tried sticking to the cool end of the car.

Whether the aircon is off due to tripping a breaker, or off because it was found to be faulty and turned off by a driver/technician is immaterial, it's off because it doesn't work.

The drivers have plenty of time in the mornings to check and configure everything on the railcars, that includes the aircon. In any case it gets checked at least every hour when the driver changes ends.

The 4000's do look ideal for Adelaide, it's just a shame we don't have an order for enough to replace the entire fleet with them.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
When the EMU's suffer no voltage from the overheads, the batteries will power emergency lighting (inside and exterior to the train, same as DEMUs), radio, AND FANS FOR CIRCULATION OF AIR. This is different to trams, and DEMU's which obvious do not offer this. The 4000 class EMU however, does.
Jumbo2001

Thanks for clarifying this - with such a modern design it's good to hear there's some redundancy built in.  I suppose on a hot day people will still try and escape depending on how long they're left to their own devices.

Speaking of failed air con units, I have been on several Melbourne EMU's when a carriage experiences a failure and I'd have to agree with Fabricator that it's unbearable, you have to move to another area.  That's the price of our hermetically-sealed world.
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

Jumbo

Thank you for being an informed person from whom I was seeking an answer.

There are others in the trade on these pages who if they were a little less critical of the amateurs like myself would go a long way to keeping everybody informed and that way squashing a lot of rumours and misinformation.

Thank you also for showing why the power went off, perfectly reasonable and something that can be fixed.

Regards
Ian
steam4ian


No probs Ian. I don't like misinformation (what a nice way of putting it! haha) either. Thats why I post. Sometimes I just sit back and see what rot people say, I will say though, particularly infrastructure wise, alot of contributors here do know what they are on about. It just seems the operational side is a bit by the wayside (as I suppose I'd expect).
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

I've been in a 3000 class railcar where 50% of aircon failed. Was on a 40+ day, and unbearable, no sane person would have simply switched it off and not noticed. Lasted one stop before that carriage was vacated entirely by staff and passengers alike, we tried sticking to the cool end of the car.

Whether the aircon is off due to tripping a breaker, or off because it was found to be faulty and turned off by a driver/technician is immaterial, it's off because it doesn't work.

The drivers have plenty of time in the mornings to check and configure everything on the railcars, that includes the aircon. In any case it gets checked at least every hour when the driver changes ends.

The 4000's do look ideal for Adelaide, it's just a shame we don't have an order for enough to replace the entire fleet with them.
fabricator


Thats nothing. Try being the poor sucker (ie Driver) that has to drive a 3000 from the A end (where the diesel traction engine lives) with full A/C failure. Just about get heat stroke!! Because of the way the railcars are made, when you are at speed with the window open, it actually creates a vacuum (owing to the flat front of the train) and sucks the air out of the saloon into the drivers cab. Which when its already stupid hot doesn't help.

Anyway - Back to this aircond thing I don't know if I'm being a bit precious, but the tone of your post seems to insinuate its the drivers fault they are in service with a busted aircond??

Lets get a few things straight once and for all.

1. Railcars DO NOT LEAVE Dry Creek Depot with failed airconditioning. If they cannot be repaired by the fitters, they fail and a different consist is required.
2. It does make a difference why it is off. The point I was getting across is a driver will NEVER turn it off. Not that it as simple as that, one would have to trip Circuit Breakers to achieve it.
3. Yes, drivers do check that aircond's work, and again, if they do not, they don't leave Dry Creek Depot.
4. If a car leaves Adelaide Station with a/c dead, it isn't the drivers fault, it is because they are directed to take it. (obviously if the A/C unit that has failed is the one for the drivers end, it wont leave the station on a hot day for OHS reasons).
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I'm generally a patient person with delivering information here, but seriously, do you just shoot from the hip and assume you're right? Or one of those people who make stuff up as "correct" instead of just saying you don't know??

Anyway. First point. Wrong. 100% wrong. When the EMU's suffer no voltage from the overheads, the batteries will power emergency lighting (inside and exterior to the train, same as DEMUs), radio, AND FANS FOR CIRCULATION OF AIR. This is different to trams, and DEMU's which obvious do not offer this. The 4000 class EMU however, does.

Second point wrong - Air cond's in the diesel railcars are never "simply being switched off". If the unit isn't on, its because it has a fault. Simply as that.

Third, from someone that has been on this forum a long while like yourself, I would find it abhorrent to suggest a RAILCAR (aside from 2100/2000 or Comeng 3100's) would "reverse". It has drivers cabs at both ends, so can "set back". Anyway, back to the point here, if the power is to be turned off in a planned/by choice sense, OF COURSE all the EMU's will be at a station. The only times they are in no mans land is when the power trips off by external faults (ie: Yesterday was due to a high volume of water gushing onto the overheads at ARS from the unfinished Convention Centre extension.

I just really wish, that before just assuming something is the case, users (not just you) would ask a question, or say they don't know. (For reference, steam4ian's post is what I am referring to).

Cheers
"Jumbo2001"
Have you done stage two of the (hazards?) training for the new electrics? If the power goes down when you're sparking it on the Onkaparinga Bridge will you be changing cabs or downing the panto and rolling (coasting) back to Meadows from the up cab?
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

So whats the news about Sunday will 4001 be joining 4003 in service on Sunday? Which service will be the very first electric train service too?

Many thanks if these 2 questions get answered.
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
I doubt milko as far as I know 4001 still exclusively type testing and training, maybe 4002, lower probability 4004, 4005 still testing.
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

So whats the news about Sunday will 4001 be joining 4003 in service on Sunday? Which service will be the very first electric train service too?

Many thanks if these 2 questions get answered.
Milkomeda

As has been said, at this stage only 4003 is 'owned' by the Government, all others are in testing/commissioning stage. 4001 wont be out as it still needs to return to Dry Creek for rectification works (like 4002 had). So the next cab off the rank is likely to be 4004.
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

Have you done stage two of the (hazards?) training for the new electrics? If the power goes down when you're sparking it on the Onkaparinga Bridge will you be changing cabs or downing the panto and rolling (coasting) back to Meadows from the up cab?
Aaron

No I haven't done this yet. I will try and find an answer for you on that one though! I definitely doubt there will be coasting around the place (just using procedure when failure in tunnels occurs). But since that section has bi directional signalling anything is possible.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
No I haven't done this yet. I will try and find an answer for you on that one though! I definitely doubt there will be coasting around the place (just using procedure when failure in tunnels occurs). But since that section has bi directional signalling anything is possible.
Jumbo2001

I think when you get to do the training you'll find it's a bit different to what you think. Wink
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

I think when you get to do the training you'll find it's a bit different to what you think. Wink
Aaron

I'm slightly confused. Why are you asking me a question if it appears you know the answer? Seems a bit redundant to me.
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
I'm slightly confused. Why are you asking me a question if it appears you know the answer? Seems a bit redundant to me.
Jumbo2001

Aaron is like that, he likes to show people how smart he thinks he is!

Wayne
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I'm slightly confused. Why are you asking me a question if it appears you know the answer? Seems a bit redundant to me.
"Jumbo2001"
I am just suggesting that coasting might be more important than you think. I've not done the training, so I can't say for sure, but seeing your responses just suggested to me that it was not like you'd done (or heard about) it either. I was going to use you as a second opinion, but if you've not been told yet, you can't tell us.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Aaron is like that, he likes to show people how smart he thinks he is!

Wayne
"hosk1956"
No, I take fairly good care of not just posting info that I don't yet know for sure is correct, you know, like the attitude you took when someone else and I posted that Belair depot was closing...
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
I was just wondering, with the Seaford extension opening this Sunday & the community event at the new terminus on the day, if no A-City's are entering service on the day of the opening, would an A-City set be available for display/inspection at Seaford station?
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide
Various posts in this and related threads imply that there will be no 4000's running on Sunday. Has it definitely be announced that this will be the case?

Edited 17:20

http://dpti.sa.gov.au/infrastructure/RR/rail_revitalisation/noarlunga_line_renewal states
The Seaford and Tonsley lines are being electrified


Passenger services from Adelaide to Seaford commence on 23 February 2014, consisting of a mix between the new electric trains and the existing diesel fleet. A community celebration is being held at Seaford from 11am - 3pm, please click here to download your invitation.



Alex C
  dvdplaza Chief Train Controller

There are posts and photos appearing on Facebook that today's 3:45pm from Adelaide to Noarlunga was an EMU (4003) - first passenger carrying service. Minsters and media present of course.
  rail_road_runner Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Direct quote from DPTISA web site.


https://www.facebook.com/DPTISA



First electric train passenger service departed Adelaide Railway Station today (21/2/2014).

As part of the staged introduction of electric services, an electric train will depart Seaford Railway Station on Sunday from 7.30 am and returning to Seaford from 8.30 am running every two hours until 5.30 pm.

Anyone not wishing to take a regular paid trip will be able to view another of the new electric trains on display at the Seaford Station this Sunday.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.