Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
The report on myki that Dilloitte provided in 2011 for the Baillieu Government has been released.
It recommends scrapping myki, buying the rights to Metcard, and getting a company experienced in developing smart cards to produce an effective alternative to Metcard Express.

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  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I thought the idea was to reinstate the Neighbourhood zones and scratchie tickets?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
With a flat fare for the whole metro area being a likely possibility next year they should have gone with $2 or $4 coin turnstiles. Imagine the money they would have saved...

Public transport is too much the plaything of silly politicians.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The report on myki that Dilloitte provided in 2011 for the Baillieu Government has been released.
It recommends scrapping myki, buying the rights to Metcard, and getting a company experienced in developing smart cards to produce an effective alternative to Metcard Express.
Gauntlet

It was already too late by then, the money had been spent.

Lynne Kosky lost the receipt and they couldn't take it back to K-mart.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Not to sure if my memory serves me correct, but didn't the developers of Myki break a few terms of their contract?
The government might have a chance or two to ditch the white elephant completely, but they decided not to.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Not to sure if my memory serves me correct, but didn't the developers of Myki break a few terms of their contract?
The government might have a chance or two to ditch the white elephant completely, but they decided not too.
xxxxlbear

It was like that situation with Connex, wasn't it.  They wanted to be seen to be caring about how the contract was being executed but at the same time they didn't want the contractors to get punished so as to put other prospective privateers off in the future.

In the end Kamco got severely beaten with a wet lettuce leaf.  Brumby and Co. couldn't admit error in appointing Kamco and the Liberals couldn't be bothered cancelling it because it was more than halfway done by the time they took office... I'm sure the East-West scenario will be the same if Napthine loses office later this year.  Or maybe not, I'm not sure if they're due to actually start work till next year?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
It was like that situation with Connex, wasn't it. They wanted to be seen to be caring about how the contract was being executed but at the same time they didn't want the contractors to get punished so as to put other prospective privateers off in the future.

In the end Kamco got severely beaten with a wet lettuce leaf. Brumby and Co. couldn't admit error in appointing Kamco and the Liberals couldn't be bothered cancelling it because it was more than halfway done by the time they took office... I'm sure the East-West scenario will be the same if Napthine loses office later this year. Or maybe not, I'm not sure if they're due to actually start work till next year?
don_dunstan

I don't think it will be the same, as Napthine will more than likely have been ousted during pre-construction works, so it will probably cost less to axe the East-West truck sewer compared to axing myki.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I don't think it will be the same, as Napthine will more than likely have been ousted during pre-construction works, so it will probably cost less to axe the East-West truck sewer compared to axing myki.
railblogger

East-West will be in very early stages but I believe Labor have announced 'no cancellation' if the contracts have already been signed, so it will go ahead regardless.

They go crook about each other's decisions but in reality they do nothing to try and un-do them once in office. East-West is a certainty; the only thing that concerns me about that is the astronomical expense will sink any chance of $$$ going into much-needed duplication and new signalling.

It doesn't matter who we elect, they all seem hell-bent on spending all the cash on these huge 'legacy' projects of really marginal utility.

Myki has proven itself worse than useless - if they actually go ahead with 'free CBD trams' and a flat metropolitan fare then truly the money spent on a sophisticated electronic ticketing system was flushed down the toilet, there was no point whatsoever in buying it.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
There's no doubt in my mind that myki shouldn't have been initiated: It really only happened because ten years ago Bracks & Co found themselves unexpectedly wallowing in the mountains of stamp duty cash from a house-price boom in metro Melbourne and they decided to go for broke buying big ticket things that were not very well thought out. My understanding is that the companies trying to sell Bachelor/Bracks the ticketing systems were telling them all sorts of lies about the expiry of proprietary technology on the 'old-fashioned' Metcard in an effort to get them spending money on replacing the entire system.  It was a bit like 'you don't want to be the last person on the street with a black-and-white telly, get with the times'.

However with the benefit of hindsight we can see that the actual cost of collection and enforcement across the system was becoming too much of a burden anyway and that they shouldn't have bothered. I recall the Myki announcement, Bachelor looked really upset when the press were asking him 'will it improve fare evasion?'; he knew full well compliance was probably going to be worse. And Myki has proven isn't good at things like really large crowds (peak-time queues at validators when trying to 'tag off') which is part of the reason why they're trying to re-mediate the problem with a flat fare; it was supposed to be good at calculating distance fares but in reality tagging off is a significant part of it's weakness because of the delays with an extra step at the end of your journey not necessary under Metcard.

I'm anticipating once they've implemented 'flat fares' that the paddle-gates at the major stations will probably disappear because the tag-off requirement won't be necessary any longer and it will keep the crowds moving better to remove them altogether.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
The removal of a 'tag-off' will ultimately defeat the purpose of having a ticketing system in the 1st place.
One of the biggest aspects of having a ticketing system is finding out where people board trams/trains/buses, and where they get off. Not having people tag-off, one will not know where people are going, and therefore one will not ultimately know where to add services (and to delete or adjust stopping patterns of other services).

Also if one is going to have a flat fare without a tag-off....one may as well just have a donation box at the doorway of every tram, train, and bus, and ask passengers to pop in a gold coin donation for every journey they make!

Infact, why not make it easier and charge people through the taxation system an amount according to where they live (their home address postcode) and the PT services in that area - someone in, say, Mildura may pay $0.50 a f/night, and someone who lives in, say, Ringwood $1, and Melbourne CBD maybe $5, and thereby PT becomes ticketless in Victoria.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
It doesn't matter where you tap off under the proposed fare structure unless you're on a V/Line service; if you're travelling anywhere on the metropolitan system the maximum fare is a Zone one daily - no more 'penalty' fares (1+2).  Anyway I think it would be hard to get people to comply with tapping off if they don't save money any more.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

If you are completing your travels within two hours you would need to touch-off to get a 2-hour ticket.  I also believe that Zone 2 will still exists, and therefore If your journey is entirely within Zone 2 you would need to touch-off to get a Zone 2 fare, as opposed to the more expensive Zone 1 fare.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You could get around that by charging a flat two-hour fare if you have no more touch-on's after two hours from the first. Daily cap would follow if you touch on two hours after the first touch-on (as it does now).

Your point about touching off to get the Zone Two flat fare is fair enough but I'm not sure with a flat metro-wide fare if they'll bother to maintain that separate Zone Two forever. If that's the only reason to keep touching off (keeping Zone Two discounts) then the pressure will be on for them to fix that problem.

The requirement to touch off on trains and buses is a significant weakness - unless there was a really strong distance-based charging system with (say) several zones across the metro area or a kilometre-based charging system. When they first bought in Myki I seriously thought this was the way they would head because after all, those complicated multiple-zone calculations what Myki supposedly excels at. However as time has gone on, our politicians have decided that a flat fare structure is the way to go so the whole 'touch off for lowest fare' thing is really redundant - at least in the metro area.

At my local station there's a long queue at peak times for people to get out of the station - if a few validators are broken (which is nearly always the case) then the lines are very long and frustrating. If we're moving to a (basically) flat metro fare then they should also work to eliminate the 'touch off' requirement, it's just common sense.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
The report on myki that Dilloitte provided in 2011 for the Baillieu Government has been released.
It recommends scrapping myki, buying the rights to Metcard, and getting a company experienced in developing smart cards to produce an effective alternative to Metcard Express.
Gauntlet

All of which goes to support the case that Myki is a long way from being the system it was sold as. ........I suspect the only way to find out how Myki deals with this is to travel and find out. Even the "experts" here have over the years (only) been able to offer theoretical answers based upon what Myki might be intended to do but that doesn't always happen in reality.- Gwiwer

This is a re-posting of a submission on Seniors' Cards which is relevant here, but which received little attention in the original thread:


Myki is the clunkiest ticketing system ever invented, as well as the most expensive. I touched on and off on a bus to Frankston and on the train there. In Melbourne I touched off and was prevented from leaving at Spencer Street. Only convincing the officer at the gate that I was making a connection to Adelaide and that I had gone through the correct procedures was I allowed to leave.

Here in Adelaide, my Seniors Card has a chip and an Adelaide Metro logo on it. It allows me (and my mobility scooter in one of four dedicated spaces on every train) free travel all day on Saturdays, Sundays and Public Holidays with unlimited transfers over the entire five route system with the longest end to end journey being about 80 kilometres. Touching on is much like Myki, but there is no need to touch off. Each touch on allows two hours from touch on to expiry, so journeys effectively up to three hours in length are possible. School and University issued cards operate similarly, though every trip is charged at a concession rate.

On weekdays travel for Seniors is free from 09.01 to 15.00, and costs only $1.62 outside those times. Small Crouzet (Paris) system card tickets are sold on the trains for occasional travellers, and Metrocards can be topped up on the same on train machines by credit card or cash. Validators look much like the Myki ones. Visitors to Adelaide can either use the card tickets or buy a special Metrocard with distinctive colouring allowing unlimited travel while in Adelaide (with a map of the city and suburbs) for $25 for three days which can be topped up if the visitor stays longer. Interstate Seniors Card holders have only to present their cards at an Adelaide Station ticket office to be given a card ticket for free travel over a period of 14 days.

For the working population the Metrocard fares are $3.29 Peak and $1.80 Interpeak, and there is a 28 day pass option for $114.00., concession holders fir half that. There are Crouzet paper tickets for all day unlimited travel purchasable on trains, trams and buses for $9.40 or $4.70 concession.

Adelaide isn't unique in having such a convenient and cheap system. Other cities around the world manage to do likewise. What did Melbourneians do that they deserved to have Myki thrust upon them?
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Some pictures to illustrate my earlier post:

[color=#0066cc][size=3][font='Open Sans', Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.flickr.com/photos/42315705@N00/7030368215/in/phot...[/font][/size][/color]

One of the onboard machines in each car on Adelaide trains to issue Crouzet thin cardboard tickets (1inch X 2) for casual cash travellers, and for credit charging Metrocards by credit card or cash.

[color=#0066cc][size=3][font='Open Sans', Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.flickr.com/photos/42315705@N00/6884267114/in/set-...[/font][/size][/color]

A validator at each door reads and imprints the magnetic strip of the card tickets when they are inserted in a slot, popping them back up, and reads Metrocards when they are touched to the plate with concentric circles. The credit remaining on the Metrocard is displayed and a sound played to indicate validation. Note the dedicated wheelchair spaces on each car of the train in the background.

[color=#0066cc][size=3][font='Open Sans', Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.flickr.com/photos/42315705@N00/6884266368/in/set-...[/font][/size][/color]

The front seats of a 3000 class Diesel Electric Multiple Unit car. Passengers in the block of seats to the right of the driver's cabin have a very good view along the track.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
What did Melbourneians do that they deserved to have Myki thrust upon them?
SAR526

We ask ourselves that frequently.

The problem was the cutting off of a lot of the functionality; ironically it might have been much better if Brumby hadn't lost in 2010.

They could easily fix some of the problems though: I've noticed in Perth they print you off a paper ticket if you want to buy one from a vending machine. Myki machines could easily be rigged to do something like that I'm sure.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Flinders Street last night 8/4.
Touch on - gates open go through.
Get home touch off. Bl00dy thing says touch on which means that I have not paid for the trip (despite touch on and gates opening).
Touch off then thing says 'changed mind - no charge'.
Oh stuff it - free trip why should I care?
But how would I go trying to explain that to AOs on the train???

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