Seaford Line

 
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Planned Seaford line shutdown for track work (implied for Tonsley junction), over the school holidays. But also plans for a 24 hour bus driver strike during that time. Seems both are due to happen next week.

I for one support the bus drivers going on strike, but not the timing. Unlike some I bothered to find out what the issue is, and the basis is there hasn't been a real pay increase in 10 years or so, the result is there wages go down every year in real terms. I don't see why the government should get involved, if the company are being stupid.

I wonder if the state government plan to hire other buses to fill in the gap.
fabricator

The state government probably doesn't want to get involved, but at the end of the day the state government needs to gaurantee the availability of a state service. They may end up with no choice but to be involved, and that will hurt them.

ALP governments like it when real wages decrease, it makes employment cheaper, therefore hopefully more abundant and it narrows the gap between benefit payments and minimum wages, eliminating the 'haves and have nots'. Federally, when Paul Keating was PM and Kim Beazley was minister for employment BOTH were very proud to stand in Parliament and spruik of real wages 'went down' and how good that was for Australian economy and society, the fact that they ended up with the lower number of friends in the house for more than 10 years might tell them others thought otherwise...

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  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
Official announcement of Easter closures on ABC News at 15.30 this afternoon.  Notice of works at http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/126817/DOCS_AND_FILES-8441889-v2-Electrification_Project_4_2_Communications_Community_Consultation_and_Media_Tonsley_Easter_Works_Letter_to_residents_re_works_.pdf

Planned works include re-sleeping in the Adelaide Railyard, signalling and electrification works along Seaford and Belair lines, final Tonsley line works and the completion of other minor works along the rail corridors.
The temporary closures and restrictions will provide the opportunity to isolate power from overhead electric wires to ensure there is a safe working environment for all contractors involved. These works have been scheduled during this traditionally low patronage period to keep disruption to a minimum, significantly reducing the inconvenience for Adelaide Metro customers
DPTI

Tonsley Junc work closure 9pm Thu 17 - 5am Tue 22.

Overnight closures from tonight to Wed 30 on Seaford and Belair.

Seaford - Brighton shuttle Tue 22 - Fri 25.

Footy trains Belair 20 & 27, Seaford 27.

Alex C
  mclaren2007 Assistant Commissioner

Location: recharging my myki
Yep, good luck getting this many people onto buses

  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

“These works have been scheduled during a low patronage period to keep disruption to a minimum, significantly reducing the inconvenience for Adelaide Metro customers,” Mr Mullighan said.

I suspect this is more correct?: "These works have been scheduled until after the state election as these areas are in marginal seats"

Would I be correct, that if they did this work after the main work, then it would've clashed with the recent SA election?

But as mclaren2007 states, how are they going to get that many passengers on to buses?

And wouldn't you get MORE passengers during school holidays?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Yep, good luck getting this many people onto buses

mclaren2007

Nobody looks happy.

Great advert for the new trains.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Yep, good luck getting this many people onto buses

mclaren2007

But as mclaren2007 states, how are they going to get that many passengers on to buses?
Newcastle Express

Three things:
a) That's (a photoshop) clearly of a football crowd - football trains still running anyway.
b) Footy Park/AAMI coped with buses alone.
c) The SCG/SFS/whole EQ precinct copes far better than Adelaide Oval does (and ever will), without a train service AND they don't need to needlessly block city streets either.


I suspect this is more correct?: "These works have been scheduled until after the state election as these areas are in marginal seats"

Would I be correct, that if they did this work after the main work, then it would've clashed with the recent SA election?
Newcastle Express

Yes, you would be correct!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
It will take them a while to get it right with events at the new Oval.

Reading the comments page on the Sadvertiser that related to that photograph, lots of people were unhappy with the organisation of the trains not coinciding exactly with the end of the game; others weren't happy with the capacity of the footbridge and Adelaide Station in catering with those large crowds all at once wanting a train, other people not happy that the trains weren't frequent enough.

With the new stadium comes a new way of doing major events like AFL in SA: Not out at West Lakes any more but in the city itself. Like anything they'll need practice to find out what works and what doesn't with the trains; if they're keen to get it right (and presumably they are) then they'll adopt how the trains run to better integrate with this brand new passenger market.

Early days yet.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

But as mclaren2007 states, how are they going to get that many passengers on to buses?
"Newcastle Express"
They won't. Those passengers were for the northern lines, not the Seaford line which is the only one to be closed on just one match day.

That scene at the station appears to have been caused by a breakdown in communication - according to Adelaide Metro the trains were supposed to leave as soon as they were full, but after both matches so far this apparently hasn't been passed through to the operations staff.

On the 20th they'll get the job done with lots of buses (three artic buses = one A-City) hopefully leaving from the western side of Adelaide Oval instead of the big bus setup on King William Road. It will be helped by the match on the Easter weekend usually having a lower crowd than usual when they were at Football Park, and it's not like the GWS Giants are a big drawing opponent.
And wouldn't you get MORE passengers during school holidays?
"Newcastle Express"
No. The minor increase in inter-peak usage is nothing compared to the massive decrease in peak usage due to school and uni students/staff not using the system.

Apart from the full Seaford closure and partial Belair closure on the long weekend, it's only for the three days between Easter and ANZAC Day and only on the Adelaide-Brighton segment so it should be about as painless as could possibly be expected for the work required. Those three days are likely to see reduced public transport need for workers too, the short interval between two long weekends makes it attractive to take three days of leave to get a ten day break.

This is probably the first time that any of the work in recent years has been genuinely well timed.
Nobody looks happy.

Great advert for the new trains.
"steam4ian"
Yep, perfectly shows the problem of one line getting new trains while the others have to cope with relics from the Cold War.
It will take them a while to get it right with events at the new Oval.
"don_dunstan"
It also took a while for them to get Footy Express right when it started at West Lakes, and also about six weeks for the trains at Etihad Stadium.

The only thing that is concerning is that there appears to have been no progress from the first week.
Yep, good luck getting this many people onto buses

"mclaren2007"
Those people won't be going on buses, only the Seaford line won't have trains for just one football match.
a) That's (a photoshop) clearly of a football crowd - football trains still running anyway.

b) Footy Park/AAMI coped with buses alone.

c) The SCG/SFS/whole EQ precinct copes far better than Adelaide Oval does (and ever will), without a train service AND they don't need to needlessly block city streets either.
"Aaron"
a) not shopped. The problem there was trains filling up and then sitting in the platform for up to half an hour - clearly an operational issue which can be solved if there is the will to do so.

b) it also took them a fair while to get the routine sorted out the first year, and then it was a bit silly for the first few weeks of the next few years.

c) helped mainly by the fact that all the genuinely big events in Sydney are out at Olympic Park - even the Swans will shift their big-drawing to Homebush. The SCG/SFS precinct sees crowds bigger than the pre-rebuild Adelaide Oval only a handful of times each year.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
The Easter closure timetables are now on AdMet website under Planned Disruptions.  The Seaford-Brighton shuttle on 22-24 Apr is 15 min service requiring 5 units, so is an all electric (non Cold War relic!) service planned.  The number of operational 4000's may have been one of the planning constraints in the shutdown, but 4005 was back in service last week after the recent door problem.

Alex C
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
according to Adelaide Metro the trains were supposed to leave as soon as they were full, but after both matches so far this apparently hasn't been passed through to the operations staff.
"justapassenger"
So section timings and one train per block don't mean anything to AdMet then?

c) helped mainly by the fact that all the genuinely big events in Sydney are out at Olympic Park - even the Swans will shift their big-drawing to Homebush. The SCG/SFS precinct sees crowds bigger than the pre-rebuild Adelaide Oval only a handful of times each year.
"JAP"
Ah yes grasshopper, but such events are nonetheless still handled and always were handled even before the Swans moved because the stadium is too small for AFL, mostly in terms of grass area.
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
Nobody looks happy.

Great advert for the new trains.
steam4ian

That's because they were Crows supporters.  Sad
All the Port supporters were in town celebrating.   Smile

Wayne
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

All the Port supporters were in town celebrating.   Smile
"hosk1956"
So were the players, judging by their performance against North Melbourne on the Sunday.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

So section timings and one train per block don't mean anything to AdMet then?
"Aaron"
Obviously there's a minimum gap between each one, but that's why they have signals to keep trains apart instead of relying on the timetable for that.

They didn't have any problems with running additional 'sweeper' trains for the inbound services before the match, but the agility simply wasn't there afterwards - and they can't plausibly blame the latest round of issues at the world's worst level crossing (East Ave yet again) for mucking it up so badly on the Outer Harbor and Gawler lines as that photograph showed.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I feel like some of my brain cells are dying every time I read the pointless whinging on the Noarlunga Line commuters facebook page about this closure which will have little to no effect for a large majority of the group there since they are mostly commuters and they will already be home after 9pm and wouldn't be travelling on train on a public holiday anyway.

I saw quite a bit of activity at the junction today plenty of workers there and more machinery parked there now ready to begin the works on the junction soon.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
These so called whinges by some about closures ought to realise that if they had not whinged for the train service to be reinstated in the first place because they wanted it back pronto or ASAP which they got, then most likely these works could have done in the first place for a little bit more inconvenience to the commuters, then they would not have had to have further shutdowns. Some of these whinger's though are just plain stupid in the extreme. They don't or most probably cannot fathom that you cannot remove track and still run the trains to serve just them. There are a few genuine complaints in anything though, so I am not branding all those that complained as being whingers. But some on some sites leave you speechless at the best of times, I am amazed that someone has not again pointed out the fact that signals are being passed at red again. Oh dear you mean there are different types of signals.

I had a person the other day tell me on the train that we were all in danger as our railcar crept up to another one running late between Woodville and Bowden. He was deliberately going past the red signals he said. I just told him to shut his trap and stop panicking people which he was, I then explained about Permissive and Absolute signals to this idiot! Some have no idea at all about it!
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
I particularly liked the statement by the Facebook page convenor on 891 this morning.    Essentially she was not using the train because there were no expresses, but used the bus instead.

Eh?    Train Seaford to Adelaide 7:56 / 8:43 or 47 minutes, 722X bus Noarlunga Centre to Adelaide 6:58 / 8:15 or 1:17 (plus the time for the connecting bus from Seaford.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
I feel like some of my brain cells are dying every time I read the pointless whinging on the Noarlunga Line commuters facebook page about this closure which will have little to no effect for a large majority of the group there since they are mostly commuters and they will already be home after 9pm and wouldn't be travelling on train on a public holiday anyway.
Milkomeda

I am curious to know why you would go back and do something that harmed you last time unless you are into killing your brain cells and find some enjoyment from doing so. Does it give you a high or something?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Don't expect any reason from the Facebook complainers. I am Proud to say they checked me off after I shared a few "home truths".

Then again David's and Milko responses show that some of their brain cells might have suffered the fate Milko suggested.

Getting impatient to get trains back four months after the published and promised date is NOT the fault of those whinging.

The Underpass was completed on time, the track was restored pretty much on time what was the hold up? Why was it allowed to occur? How did they change from speed signalling to route signalling in the 80s without major shut downs? The new signalling system did not involve cutting into track circuits and could have been overlayed on the old.

Consider why the cutting south of Lonsdale has to be repaired now when the track was unused for  9 months less than 6 months ago and the work could have been done then.

The picture of the signal at Tonsley Junction too close to the up track on the branch says it all. PPP = PPP
Ian
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
Don't expect any reason from the Facebook complainers. I am Proud to say they checked me off after I shared a few "home truths".

Then again David's and Milko responses show that some of their brain cells might have suffered the fate Milko suggested.

Getting impatient to get trains back four months after the published and promised date is NOT the fault of those whinging.

The Underpass was completed on time, the track was restored pretty much on time what was the hold up? Why was it allowed to occur? How did they change from speed signalling to route signalling in the 80s without major shut downs? The new signalling system did not involve cutting into track circuits and could have been overlayed on the old.

Consider why the cutting south of Lonsdale has to be repaired now when the track was unused for 9 months less than 6 months ago and the work could have been done then.

The picture of the signal at Tonsley Junction too close to the up track on the branch says it all. PPP = PPP
Ian
steam4ian

The original intention was to continue bidirectional working on what is now the down line, until the double junction was installed.  The signal was positioned appropriately for that scenario, complete with AWS and balises.  In the end what prevented the earlier restoration was the lack of rolling stock.

Alex C
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I particularly liked the statement by the Facebook page convenor on 891 this morning.    Essentially she was not using the train because there were no expresses, but used the bus instead.

Eh?    Train Seaford to Adelaide 7:56 / 8:43 or 47 minutes, 722X bus Noarlunga Centre to Adelaide 6:58 / 8:15 or 1:17 (plus the time for the connecting bus from Seaford.
"kipioneer"
S C-T is not the sharpest intellect on the line, that's possibly why she catches the slower bus...
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I particularly liked the statement by the Facebook page convenor on 891 this morning.    Essentially she was not using the train because there were no expresses, but used the bus instead.

Eh?    Train Seaford to Adelaide 7:56 / 8:43 or 47 minutes, 722X bus Noarlunga Centre to Adelaide 6:58 / 8:15 or 1:17 (plus the time for the connecting bus from Seaford.
"kipioneer"
There's someone else complaining about the bustitutes not servicing their station, but they have a standard bus service to the city on a 37 minute time frame. Yet for some reason, this 'commuter' reckons it's more like an hour... Well I guess it is if you have a sufficiently short hour.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

It has been confirmed that truck access into the Tonsley Junction track work site will be from Daws Road through Joy Street and Hazel Street.

  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
I am curious to know why you would go back and do something that harmed you last time unless you are into killing your brain cells and find some enjoyment from doing so. Does it give you a high or something?
nm39

A needless comment. Ad hominem remarks have no place here. If you've something worthwhile to say, say it or hold your peace.

I read hundreds of pointless ill-informed comments from both sides of the political spectrum every week. I read them so that I can make pertinent comments about the specious arguments of the rusted-on adherents of the video clip or sound grab, and maybe counteract their misinformation. Though I know that I won't change their opinions, I might just get others to think about the issues involved. I expect that in turn I will be the subject of criticism and so long as it's the result of thought processes rather than blind prejudice, I accept it.

The Facebook page about the Seaford Line is full of arrant nonsense, but we need to know what is being said to counteract the ignoramuses who infest it (and most other Facebook sites) even if a few brain cells die in the process.

Most of us on this list have something worthwhile to say, and we can't all be right all the time, so disagreement is fine. We learn from each other.

Valuable as your other comments here are, this one is in my opinion out of order.

Pompous Twat, Mark II.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

A needless comment. Ad hominem remarks have no place here. If you've something worthwhile to say, say it or hold your peace.

I read hundreds of pointless ill-informed comments from both sides of the political spectrum every week. I read them so that I can make pertinent comments about the specious arguments of the rusted-on adherents of the video clip or sound grab, and maybe counteract their misinformation. Though I know that I won't change their opinions, I might just get others to think about the issues involved. I expect that in turn I will be the subject of criticism and so long as it's the result of thought processes rather than blind prejudice, I accept it.

The Facebook page about the Seaford Line is full of arrant nonsense, but we need to know what is being said to counteract the ignoramuses who infest it (and most other Facebook sites) even if a few brain cells die in the process.

Most of us on this list have something worthwhile to say, and we can't all be right all the time, so disagreement is fine. We learn from each other.

Valuable as your other comments here are, this one is in my opinion out of order.

Pompous Twat, Mark II.
SAR526

Take a chill pill Brian.

Comment is not up to your usual standard.

Don't let the Pompous Twat title be one you have to live down to.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
[edit]Thread locked a s it seems people are having a go at each other yet again.

Will it be left closed & locked, new thread created called "Seaford line #2" - try tht thread to contine the original update on the line. [/edit]

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