Former Premier announces airport rail line will be built

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
At least this should do away with that stupid idea of running the airport trains stopping all stations to Dandenong through the Metro tunnel. Southern Cross is the main transport exchange in Melbourne, that's where the airport trains should go. And it also exposes the 'oh we can't build it until we build Metro' for the load of rubbish it was. Just electrify RRL from Sunshine and there's your express capacity.

It is funny how these 'fully costed and in the budget' plans have suddenly started appearing in an election year rather than the previous three...
HardSleeper

Did you read Kuldalai's extensive analysis above Question

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  Carnot Minister for Railways

Well there is more hope than there was previously that a (much needed and overdue) airport rail link will be built.  I think that the best option would be for Bombardier EMUs to be used.

As for running trains between 1-5am, a key question would be how much of the airport's patronage at that time would originate from only the CBD if there is no 24/7 suburban service?
  712M Chief Commissioner

One question worth asking is where in the airport the line would terminate. Would there be an underground station adjacent to the main terminal building? Creating a surface level station would require a lot of land aquisition and most likely a station in the middle of knowwhere. The last thing we want is another repeat of what happened with the 901 terminating a 10 minute walk from the nearest terminal.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
One question worth asking is where in the airport the line would terminate. Would there be an underground station adjacent to the main terminal building? Creating a surface level station would require a lot of land aquisition and most likely a station in the middle of knowwhere. The last thing we want is another repeat of what happened with the 901 terminating a 10 minute walk from the nearest terminal.
712M


It is only really going to work if the railway station is under the terminal at Tullamarine.  This is a very large benefit of Sydney Airport, you can exit the baggage area and then head down to the railway station.  

Has consideration been given to a loop at the airport meaning to need to reverse the service to Tullamarine?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Has consideration been given to a loop at the airport meaning to need to reverse the service to Tullamarine?
bevans

As like the Olympic Park balloon loop at Homebush Bay (Sydney)

All I can see this doing Is Inflating the capital costs substantially, for no benefit to any passengers (when there Is a need for the likes of 2 minute frequencies, yes It may be a good option)
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Don't complicate it:

*Use RFR lines - more capacity, better for express operation
*Use AC traction - eventual expansion to Geelong
*Use Southern Cross - better for information purposes and capacity
*Stop at Sunshine and Footscray - or otherwise useless for west
*Run buses during the early hours period - no point without other suburban trains

A look at the Metro Timetable suggests that a Non-Stop run from North Melbourne to Albion takes 20 minutes. V-Line shows 15 minutes for SC-Sunshine, with a stop at Footscray, and longer in the other direction.

How on earth are they going to do the extra distance (SC-NM and Albion to Airport) in just another 5 minutes? Would there be paths available between SC and Albion that allow for say a 15 min run without having to cancel some Metro Services? Or perhaps use the RRL to Sunshine?

25 minutes seems a big ask if existing Infrastructure is to be used.
mikesyd

Just over 15 minutes on the RFR to Albion would be possible - no chance on the Metro suburban lines.

From Albion to the Airport in 10 minutes would require an average speed of 80km/h - not impossible.

I assume that a new line would follow the Tullamarine Freeway from where it crosses the Albion-Jacana line?
mikesyd

That's the Western Ring Road, the alignment follows the existing lines to Airport Dr then branches off there towards the airport.

I take the use of the word "direct" as meaning non stop. After all, every stop adds extra time to the total journey, the trains will be set up for travellers with luggage rather than for suburban commuters and great majority of patrons won't be coming from places like Sunshine.
Bogong

Except everybody south of the Maribyrnong.

Running totally express is pointless when everthing else is stopping - it just reduces capacity and makes it useless for the west.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
From the ABC News:

"A Coalition Government that has plans to build the regional rail link, has plans for our port capacity, has plans for East West Link and has plans for a Melbourne Airport rail link?
"Our Government has the vision, we have the runs on the board."

Deputy Opposition leader James Merlino says the Liberal Party has made similar promises before.


"Denis Napthine and the Liberal Party promised rail links to Avalon, to Doncaster, to Rowville. None of them have been delivered," he said.


The report produced on the route options is available at: http://ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/PTV/PTV%20docs/Melbourne-Airport/Melbourne-Airport-Rail-Link-Study-Overview.pdf
  fogcv Chief Train Controller

Location: Platform 11 Flinders Street
Would there be an underground station adjacent to the main terminal building? Creating a surface level station would require a lot of land acquisition and most likely a station in the middle of nowhere.
712M

The Age is saying the airport station will be elevated.

The Age: Premier Denis Napthine promises Melbourne airport rail link
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Age is saying the airport station will be elevated.

The Age: Premier Denis Napthine promises Melbourne airport rail link
fogcv

Which doesn't surprise me given that the airport is built on a basalt lava plain.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Like others here, I'm a bit sceptical of Napthine's promise to deliver this project.  I think it's probably subterfuge for the fact that absolutely nothing has been initiated in their four year term except East-West which will suck the money out of every other infrastructure project in this state once under construction. Even the Avalon Airport link (with a very low price tag) couldn't be delivered once in office.

Even if Tullamarine is in the budget next month I'm sure there'll be some good excuses if they're returned to office ("Couldn't find private sector $$$; economic modelling proved it was un-viable; logistical issues at the airport end proved insurmountable; Skybus is more than adequate; We've decided to spend the money on upgrades to the Tullamarine toll-way instead to make it more reliable...").

It's really hard to believe Napthine on this when they've proven so far they can't successfully initiate anything.
  73LJWhiteSL Deputy Commissioner

Location: South East Melbourne Surburbs
Don't complicate it:

*Use RFR lines - more capacity, better for express operation
*Use AC traction - eventual expansion to Geelong
*Use Southern Cross - better for information purposes and capacity
*Stop at Sunshine and Footscray - or otherwise useless for west
*Run buses during the early hours period - no point without other suburban trains


ZH836301


I agree with your idea sir.

No point running 24 hour service, given between last and first train on the current Metro time table the number of weekday domestic flights arriving/departing  would easily be less than 15, and international flights arriving/departing would be less than 6. Unless they are going to take the Metro system to 24 hours.

Having a couple of stops makes sense for those western suburban dwellers, so they don't need to go in and out of the CBD to get the train, otherwise those people are more than likely to continue driving.

Even stopping at SXS makes sense, you can get a train to just about anywhere from there, and if you needed to get to Flinders Street you wouldn't be waiting long.

In my travels I have used the rail connection at Sydney, New York, San Francisco, Vancouver and Chicago and a system like this suggested is similar to these locations and I feel would give good value for money and be well utilized.

Not sure Skybus, the taxi companies and the parking companies would be too impressed with the lost of patronage tho.

Steve
  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
I have always been an advocate of an airport rail link. However, I caught the skybus for the first time when I last went home from the airport and was very impressed. It flew down the freeway and we got the Southern Cross in no time. I did ride on it away from the airport though and it was about 8pm on a Saturday.

If an airtrain is introduced here, we would need suitable rolling-stock to accommodate the large baggage that could be carried.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Which doesn't surprise me given that the airport is built on a basalt lava plain.
Carnot


Sydney was able to place the station underground. There is a lot of rock around Sydney.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Sydney was able to place the station underground. There is a lot of rock around Sydney.
bevans

The Rock around Sydney is primarily Sandstone - easy to dig/cut/tunnel.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
My aged memory says that the Brisbane airport station is elevated, and seems to be OK.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
My aged memory says that the Brisbane airport station is elevated, and seems to be OK.
Valvegear


It is now.  The initial construction made it a little harder to access. Underground, especially in the winter and in the rail is much better.  This does raise an interesting point however. Perhaps there is not a pre-built railway station under the airport?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Sydney was able to place the station underground. There is a lot of rock around Sydney.
bevans

Sydney has sandstone not basalt.


Many people talk about the need for special trains with a lot of luggage storage !
I can't see this happening at all, as

People with a lot of luggage will use a taxi, hire car or get a lift with someone they know.
People who would use the train would be packing light.

I travelled on the airport trains to Münichen and Hamburg Airports (Flughafens) from their cities main stations (Hauptbahnhof) and the regular city wide rolling stock was used.
(though oddly at both cities they split the trains on a "down pass" at the airport junction stations and then joined them back up on an "up pass")
  blowfish Junior Train Controller

That's the Western Ring Road, the alignment follows the existing lines to Airport Dr then branches off there towards the airport.
ZH836301

Problem with this is, it's situated between two interchanges (Calder and Airport/Sharpes) on the Ring Road. The line itself traverses a bridge on this section and there are transmission lines running parallel to the west of the line.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Addressing a gathering of Liberal Party faithful, Dr Napthine confirmed the May 6 state budget would include plans for a new electrified rail service running along dedicated tracks from Melbourne Airport to Albion, where it would join an existing rail corridor running to Southern Cross Station.


The link will be electrified which is good news as I a cannot see how this could be achieved with diesel trains.  Could not be done. You would walk about from the terminal into a cloud of diesel fumes which would probably also enter the terminal.  Not doable.  This is good news.

Napthine if he is to be believed also mentioned a flyover at Albion.  What is this all about?

Electrification discussions will be interesting with ARTC as they have DG's the BG line for some of the distance between Albion and Jacana.  Does this mean the service will use the RRL lines from SCS to Sunshine?

The airport rail line must go ahead. I just don't know if Napthine can be trusted to actually deliver it.

In any case I believe it will be a long way off.

Regards
Brian
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Dumb questions:  Why does it take less than 1 year between announcing and signing contracts for the dodgy East-West road link?  And yet rail projects seem to take a minimum of 3-4 years?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Dumb questions: Why does it take less than 1 year between announcing and signing contracts for the dodgy East-West road link? And yet rail projects seem to take a minimum of 3-4 years?
Carnot

A Politician with a pet project, who will gain plenty of brownie points with big business players who are lobbying also for his pet project.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Mentioned a flyover at Albion. What is this all about?

Electrification discussions will be interesting with ARTC as they have DG's the BG line for some of the distance between Albion and Jacana. Does this mean the service will use the RRL lines from SCS to Sunshine?

Regards
Brian
bevans

The plan Is to use RRL to Sunshine, extend It along to Albion then use a flyover to cross over the Sunbury suburban line.
(as others have pointed out, the planed journey time Is not possible via the Suburban line)

I guess the broad gauge goods line (that's In poor condition) will be upgraded and duplicated to the Airport line junction (about Melway page 15 F7)
The ARTC dual gauge starts further North than this point.
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
The plan Is to use RRL to Sunshine, extend It along to Albion then use a flyover to cross over the Sunbury suburban line.
(as others have pointed out, the planed journey time Is not possible via the Suburban line)

I guess the broad gauge goods line (that's In poor condition) will be upgraded and duplicated to the Airport line junction (about Melway page 15 F7)
The ARTC dual gauge starts further North than this point.
Nightfire


the broad gauge goods line has been upgraded by the artc folk. are you saying it is not finished?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
the broad gauge goods line has been upgraded by the artc folk. are you saying it is not finished?
JimYarin

ARTC has nothing to do with this section of broad gauge goods line between Albion and Airport West.

ARTC has their passing lane #1 that starts at Airport West and runs towards Glenroy (the commissioning of this passing lane was delayed, unsure If It has even happened yet)
  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Sydney has sandstone not basalt.


Many people talk about the need for special trains with a lot of luggage storage !
I can't see this happening at all, as

People with a lot of luggage will use a taxi, hire car or get a lift with someone they know.
People who would use the train would be packing light.

I travelled on the airport trains to Münichen and Hamburg Airports (Flughafens) from their cities main stations (Hauptbahnhof) and the regular city wide rolling stock was used.
(though oddly at both cities they split the trains on a "down pass" at the airport junction stations and then joined them back up on an "up pass")
Nightfire

Funnily enough, Brisbane seems to use their modern EMU's on the airport line a lot which does not have many longitudinal seats, but when I first went up there and used the airtrain, they had sets with a lot of longitudinal seats.

I would use an airport train as opposed to a taxi even with a lot of luggage as I am cheap. Although I have the option of the Gull bus which would be reasonable.

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