Rail link to Western Sydney Airport

 
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
I was just reading all these threads and an idea came to me.
If Mascot already has 2 parallel runways and that is all that the other major airports have, then why not leave it as it is, remove the curfew and use the money earmarked for Badgerys Creek to buy up all the house affected by the curfew removal.
Problem solved and we have a 24 hour airport straight away.
I am a genius.
Showtime

You also need to slide one of Mascot's runways a bit further away from the other one, to remove restrictions on approach sequencing.  I don't think they installed the big castor wheels necessary to do this underneath the runways at the time they were built.  A bit of extra terminal/plane parking space wouldn't go astray either.

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  viaprojects Chief Train Controller

I was just reading all these threads and an idea came to me.
If Mascot already has 2 parallel runways and that is all that the other major airports have, then why not leave it as it is, remove the curfew and use the money earmarked for Badgerys Creek to buy up all the house affected by the curfew removal.
Problem solved and we have a 24 hour airport straight away.
I am a genius.
Showtime

your a bit late to the party.

cannot be done - it would be cheaper to buy and remove the airport than buy all the land under the flight paths. reason for the curfew and some other stuff when the third runway was done. see news archives

there where options for the other 3 sydney airports but they have the same problems
  johnboy Chief Commissioner

Location: Up the road from Gulgong
Anyway, I doubt a new airport will be built. Who actually wants it?

Just people who 'think' we need it.

Sydney Airport released this statement when the Fed's made their announcement (which to me says "we don't need it"):

"Sydney Airport’s approved Master Plan 2033 shows that we can meet forecast demand of 74 million passengers in 2033. Together with government, stakeholders, airline partners and the community, we are focused on improving the customer experience, increasing efficiency
and enhancing capacity at Sydney Airport."

http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/corporate/~/media/files/corporate/environment%20plan/master%20plan/2033/chapter%2016_long%20term%20development%20of%20aviation%20in%20the%20sydney%20region.pdf
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Buggar - I thought I had solved the problem

OK then, my next idea has already been mentioned but it does have merit.
Build a super airport at Badgerys Creek (not just an overflow stopgap) and link it with a dedicated high speed train into the city.
Sell off Mascot to housing.
Having 2 half-arsed airports doesn't make sense, hang on a moment, this is NSW isn't it? In that case just build something that will not work properly and be done with it.
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
If the proposed second stage rail connection happens that goes north and hooks up with St Marys, you already have your express train available. Our problems are solved! Next! Smile
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Anyway, I doubt a new airport will be built. Who actually wants it?

Just people who 'think' we need it.

Sydney Airport released this statement when the Fed's made their announcement (which to me says "we don't need it"):

"Sydney Airport’s approved Master Plan 2033 shows that we can meet forecast demand of 74 million passengers in 2033. Together with government, stakeholders, airline partners and the community, we are focused on improving the customer experience, increasing efficiency
and enhancing capacity at Sydney Airport."

http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/corporate/~/media/files/corporate/environment%20plan/master%20plan/2033/chapter%2016_long%20term%20development%20of%20aviation%20in%20the%20sydney%20region.pdf
johnboy

Good comment.

It been mentioned a few times, we (govt) all seem to be trying to solve a problem the airport has yet to confirm exists. If they have a plan and its looks in the best interests of Sydney/NSW/Australia, LET THEM SOLVE IT!

However, I suspect the international airlines are pushing hard for a 2nd airport to get rid of the curfew as it impacts on their scheduling, crew management etc. Emirates say must make sure the 2:15am flight leaves on time so that it can get to Sydney before the curfew closes or face a massive fine. If the flight is to continue to NZ (as many do). Run too late, but not late enough for arrival in Sydney and it cannot leave and hence the return flight to NZ is cancelled. Snow at Heathrow delaying flights could have significant knock on effects and costs just because of curfews.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If the proposed second stage rail connection happens that goes north and hooks up with St Marys, you already have your express train available. Our problems are solved! Next! Smile
jcouch

Govt announced today that they have reserved the land from end of NWRL to new airport site.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I was just reading all these threads and an idea came to me.
If Mascot already has 2 parallel runways and that is all that the other major airports have, then why not leave it as it is, remove the curfew and use the money earmarked for Badgerys Creek to buy up all the house affected by the curfew removal.
Problem solved and we have a 24 hour airport straight away.
I am a genius.
Showtime

Port Botany rail line and yard we be first to go! Cost of doing so, note involves are large chunk of inner Sydney is quite high.

Since another poster made comment about selling and redeveloping the land Mascot airport is built on, I've grown attached to the build one decent airport concept.
  viaprojects Chief Train Controller


Having 2 half-arsed airports doesn't make sense, hang on a moment, this is NSW isn't it? In that case just build something that will not work properly and be done with it.
Showtime


we have two half-arsed air ports. mascot and bankstown. not shore about the other 2. if you have a problem you need to talk to the fed gov. they control the airports not the state.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
we have two half-arsed air ports. mascot and bankstown. not shore about the other 2. if you have a problem you need to talk to the fed gov. they control the airports not the state.
viaprojects

That's right, do it properly. Give a 10 year time frame to change over and infrastructure in place, then close Mascot. Its not needed and just duplication of services.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
I'm dismayed that people are suggesting closing Mascot! Why on earth would you remove such a useful piece of infrastructure? To do so and not face congestion at BC you'd need 3 parallel runways minimum - the site isn't even big enough for that. Longer ground transport times for anyone heading to east of Parramatta would be the result, and all for an 11 digit price tag, I would expect. At least 10 digits.

Oh, and I think you could come up with a more independent knocker than Sydney Airport.  They really have no real incentive to lose their monopoly or expend a lot of money to retain it.
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
I'm dismayed that people are suggesting closing Mascot! Why on earth would you remove such a useful piece of infrastructure? To do so and not face congestion at BC you'd need 3 parallel runways minimum - the site isn't even big enough for that. Longer ground transport times for anyone heading to east of Parramatta would be the result, and all for an 11 digit price tag, I would expect. At least 10 digits.

Oh, and I think you could come up with a more independent knocker than Sydney Airport. They really have no real incentive to lose their monopoly or expend a lot of money to retain it.
simonl

+1000.

Sydney airport would tell you that they are able to cope with current demand.  Consequently, I am imagining things when I've have to spend another 30 minutes waiting in an aircraft after a long haul flight waiting for an available gate.  On other occasions I must have been hallucinating when the gate available at the time was actually on the freight apron and not at the terminal.

The inability of Mascot to service projected aviation demand, even given its master plan, is clearly laid out in the Joint Study.  Those interested should read chapter 4 at http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/aviation/airport/western_sydney/sydney_av_cap/index.aspx.

That joint study didn't explicitly consider relocation of the primary airport because, as it said...

This is in recognition of the economic and access benefits Sydney (Kingsford-Smith) Airport provides to Sydney, NSW and Australia as a whole, given its location next to the Sydney CBD, and its proximity to the market catchment for business, freight and leisure travel. Taking into account the existing sunk and programmed investment in infrastructure, it is expected the airport will continue to be the focus of demand particularly for peak business and high value air freight.


Scattered throughout the report, particularly in the appendices, are estimates of the cost components required for full airport relocation.  I think you can comfortably say that you'd be looking spending at least $20 billion in "before you can close the other one" expense to relocate and get an airport with equivalent utility - considering things like additional land acquisition for an ultimate three runway configuration, full length parallel dual runway construction from the get-go, the requirement for express transport links, construction of multiple terminals and engineering facilities.  

Current spend for the secondary airport - airport + infrastructure over the next ten years - is running at about $6 billion.  

The land value (not including the stuff you build on the land) of a 12 x 40 metre residential block in Mascot in 2012 was about $600 K - $1250 per square metre.  The Sydney airport site, far from all of which would be "saleable" (i.e. - I'm being very conservative) , has an area of 907 ha.  At $1250 per m2 that makes $ - giving a total land value of $11.3 billion.  That doesn't close the gap.  That's before we consider the benefits of competitive tension.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Freight at SYD after BC?  Is that referring to belly cargo?  I'd expect the dedicated freighters to use BC.
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
Freight at SYD after BC? Is that referring to belly cargo? I'd expect the dedicated freighters to use BC.
simonl

Perhaps.  But most air freight to/from Mascot is carried as belly cargo (something like two thirds - I think I read that in that joint committee report).

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