Former Premier announces airport rail line will be built

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Sorry MD but I was in the audience when the Premier made the announcement.

His exact words, as far as I can recall, were "WE will build the rail ink to Melbourne Airport".

"WE" clearly being his government.
PClark

Agreed...

However it will probably be a PPP (Public Private Partnership)

Mike.

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  Highrise Assistant Commissioner

Is it time to declare a race...

Which airport will get rail first. Tullamarine or the Badgerys Creek?

Very Happy
Plan B

The race has already been lost, Tulla has already been waiting 40 years for it!
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Is it officially the governments position to electrify the Melbourne airport rail link or will they dismiss tho option at a later date ?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Is it officially the governments position to electrify the Melbourne airport rail link or will they dismiss tho option at a later date ?
freightgate

I recall the graphics from the State Budget seemed to suggest that it was going to be built as part of the electrified suburban network; I wasn't sure if that meant new 1500v lines over the new RRL tracks or using suburban tracks through to Albion though?
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
It should be AC on the RRL, setting up for electrification for Geelong, terminating at Geelong.

Of course it isn't, so they can run their stupid airport to wherever trains to try and buy southeastern votes through one seat journeys, because changing trains is apparently agony (except for the rest of the world).
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

It should be AC on the RRL, setting up for electrification for Geelong, terminating at Geelong.

Of course it isn't, so they can run their stupid airport to wherever trains to try and buy southeastern votes through one seat journeys, because changing trains is apparently agony (except for the rest of the world).
ZH836301

1.  As the trains will run through to Dandenong corridor the Airport line will be 1500 Volts DC joining the existing network at Albion.

2.  Geelong electrification has been looked and costed so many times in the last decade, as recently as when RRL was planned.
Even with the most ambitious patronage number projections, electrification is not warranted at this stage .  What is needed now is a new generation of wider body high capacity DMU with wider doorways like 4 car sets with a true trailer car, and operating as double consists at peak time.  Such sets for Geelong, Bacchus Marsh and Kyneton to replace the ageing H cars and also to cascade the Sprinters to the Western, Northern, Goulburn Valley, Seymour and Eastern lines.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
That's what will happen with airport rail, not what should.
  wyche123 Locomotive Fireman

Why are there no planned stations between Sunshine and the Airport?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Why are there no planned stations between Sunshine and the Airport?
wyche123

Why Is there any needed ?

That section would probably be full speed express running, add stations you blow out the timetable !
  wyche123 Locomotive Fireman

Because passengers from these suburbs, many of whom work at the airport, would like to use this service. It would also establish another commuter line.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Extra stations are going to slow the service down - they want to keep the projected time below 25 minutes each way.  Add another two or three stations (in addition to sharing the tracks with Sunbury trains to Albion) and I'm guessing you're probably stretching the time to 32 minutes at least.  Not that I'm arguing the with need for extra stations in the north-west but it's gotta stay fast or it won't be as attractive an option.
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
What about having stations built as loops alongside the line?

To explain proper: The line is four tracks at stations only, where a stopper goes into the station, then waits for an express to fly by it before going off again.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
There is absolutely no need for any new stations between Albion to the airport.
  blowfish Junior Train Controller

There's probably not ample room along the corridor to provide additional stations anyway, as most land is either bordered by roads (freeway or overpass), housing or industrial estates.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Passenger stations at Sunshine North, Keilor East, Westfield Shoppingtown, Airport West and Gowanbrae.
wxtre

With a one hour plus journey time to go with It !

The Government of the day had to be pushed and dragged kicking and screaming to provide funding for new railway stations at the likes of Lynbrook
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Some trains can run express and others stop all stations.
wxtre

The train paths would not be available for such services, extend tram route 59 for local services !

I do not understand why governments are reluctant to invest in rail. These projects are paid for by ticketing prices and they do not cost the government anything and make a profit. It is strange that people do not understand this.


It seams you don't understand the cost recovery ratios of running passenger trains.

They just about all lose money on paper.

Their viability Is calculated by what they can do service the community and the local economy, by easing traffic congestion, Improving social connectivity of the community, energy use reduction, etc.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
It seams you don't understand the cost recovery ratios of running passenger trains.

They just about all lose money on paper.

Their viability Is calculated by what they can do service the community and the local economy, by easing traffic congestion, Improving social connectivity of the community, energy use reduction, etc.
Nightfire

That's my understanding of the situation too. I don't think either Sydney or Brisbane have ever made any money even with their relatively high ticket prices.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
If they do not make money why do international companies want to own and run these networks.
wxtre

They get paid a management fee.

Usually (but not always) they run things more efficiently than bureaucrats, so the subsidy is usually smaller. Thus they save the government money.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Sorry you are naive.
wxtre

You really need to do you home work.

Every, every Australia passenger system, both regional and suburban for the purposes of PT losses money and its not small change. Last I saw the figures its between 65 and 80% depending on the network. That's for every $1 it takes to run the system the taxpayer coffs up up to 80c. The exception is the GSR hotel on wheels, but even the Overland is a money pit. On rail unless you have IP type length trains, moving people at current prices does not pay. The losses in many parts as so bad that increasing services to cater for more people doesn't equal a reduction in subsidy.

Why does the govt do it? cost off-set is a major driver. ie spend less money running a rail line than building a hwy and popularity/public demand.

The ONLY commuter type line that comes close to running at a profit is the Brisbane Airport line. Privately owned, built in 2000 for $220m, for which within a few years the owners/banks wrote off about half as a lost cause and hence the profit margins are now based on the capital repayment of around $110m. And still to achieve this is by charging 2-3 x as much to go to the Airport as it does to go the same distance on govt owned commuter line of similar distance. However note Brisbane which has the highest train fares in Australia (and still needs a 75% subsidy).

So by Mel standards the 15km trip from CBD to the airport at nearly $15 or $28 return is expensive. Tulla is a few km further out than Brisbane airport.

I suspect PPP is what will happen, but I'm sure the govt is worried about the shock factor on fares.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I just searched and found these articles. It appears Metro does make a profit.
wxtre

I'd make a profit too, if I had one of those nice Government subsidies.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Passenger stations at Sunshine North, Keilor East, Westfield Shoppingtown, Airport West and Gowanbrae.
wrxt

Lay off the choof.


It doesn't even go near the latter three, there's nothing in Sunshine North, and neither is there at Keilor East.


hese projects are paid for by ticketing prices and they do not cost the government anything and make a profit.
wxtre

Gotta be a troll.


I just searched and found these articles. It appears Metro does make a profit. Then this profit goes overseas I would assume.
wxtre

Did you even read it?

Protip - compare fares to operating expenditure.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Of course  MTM  (Metro) make a profit, they are a business not a Charity .

The Government  contracts Metro to run a particular level of service (timetable), to agreed service parameters  viz:  On time running and percentage of services operated .  The better Metro performance the more money they make .  

Metro have been far more successful in running the system than Connex the previous Operator .  

Government retains all the revenue .  Government does not have the day to responsibility of maintaining, staffing & operating the system .  Simple as that .

MTR Hong Kong incidentally  does not run its rail operations at a profit .  The big bucks come from MTR  development of air rights over stations in commercial shops, offices and apartments that bring in huge on going revenue that is invested back into the system .
  wyche123 Locomotive Fireman

Oh please. It goes through Airport West. Straight passed Westfield shopping center. Perfect stop for a station. And why should my taxes pay for someone from Dandenong to quickly get to the Airport, without doing stops in the North West suburbs on the way.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Oh please. It goes through Airport West. Straight passed Westfield shopping center. Perfect stop for a station. And why should my taxes pay for someone from Dandenong to quickly get to the Airport, without doing stops in the North West suburbs on the way.
wyche123

Get your facts straight - it does not go straight passed [sic] Westfield.


The airport line deviates from the existing lines at Steele Creek, to follow Airport Dr towards the airport.


If you bothered to do a Google search, seemingly a big ask on this site, you'd know that.


Mr O'Brien also heads Airshuttle Commuter Express, a consortium that proposed the introduction of monorail...


Stopped reading.
  wyche123 Locomotive Fireman

So it misses the Westfield shopping center Airport West by a couple hundred meters! Again, why should not taxpayers from this part of Melb have a pickup point on this train service?

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