Yup. There's a bug in the forums where when the last post for a page increment is made, it adds one extra blank page to the counter and links, which doesn't exist. Been that way for about 3-4 months now.

Anyway, sorry for diversion, back to our railway geekery!

Less than 3 weeks 'til the changeover begins and 3 weeks to the end of the GTI phase of the SWRL; no idea if the 3 crossovers to go and tidyup are built into the project or for 'in-house' people to attend later (maybe a June CU will reveal).

I'm guessing the first thing to go will be the OHW, DM->EHUP as far as the NFO exit. As they install point assemblies into straight track, I'd guess the point DM->EHUP will be cut out, removed and relaced with regular sleepers, rails and top ballast. The EHUP can be cut, hauled over to the NFO exit, rails glued, top ballast added and tamped for alignment. Then the OHW people could use their specialist trucks to finish the OHW onto the flyover, perhaps using recovered wire from the old EHUP?

The two new crossovers (DM->EHDR,UP->EHUR) and P1 & P4 roads could do with a descale for reliable track cct operation so I'm guessing the track grinder (or a bunch of boyscouts with wire brushes) will make an appearance.

If I had the required PPE I think I could handle the uncovering of the new signals.

It will be interesting to see if they (can) 'quick-fix' the old signals just by turning their heads aside, otherwise it's upwards of two dozen wires, unbolt the ladder and mountings and drop them on the ground or a truck with a rail based crane or similar. The ATS are usually just bolted to the sleepers AFAICT.

P1/2 have Guard Indicators from the old signal system about 2/3 along the platform, but P3 apparently never got one, possibly because the starter is clearly visible.

And I'll be surprised (appalled?) if some kind of train doesn't 'test' the flyover by Monday night.

Less than 3 weeks 'til the changeover begins and 3 weeks to the end of the GTI phase of the SWRL; no idea if the 3 crossovers to go and tidyup are built into the project or for 'in-house' people to attend later (maybe a June CU will reveal).

They'd be for the project to sort out. It's normal for projects to run for a while after "go-live" to tidy everything up (this won't be the end of the GTI project). Besides, they want that stuff gone to reduce maintenance costs... It will have been built into the project's scope from the start.

I'm guessing the first thing to go will be the OHW, DM->EHUP as far as the NFO exit. As they install point assemblies into straight track, I'd guess the point DM->EHUP will be cut out, removed and relaced with regular sleepers, rails and top ballast. The EHUP can be cut, hauled over to the NFO exit, rails glued, top ballast added and tamped for alignment. Then the OHW people could use their specialist trucks to finish the OHW onto the flyover, perhaps using recovered wire from the old EHUP?

Yes, I would imagine that they'd want to de-energise as much as possible of the OHW, it will allow them to remove the OHW and track without an outage (although they may simply abandon the track). I can't imagine them using recovered wire, OHW wire wears over time and now is as good a chance as any to replace it (plus it'd be a pain to move it for re-use without getting it all kinked). My guess is that they'll remove the section of wire and replace it (including some that's to the east of the flyover - up to the next OHW break)

It will be interesting to see if they (can) 'quick-fix' the old signals just by turning their heads aside, otherwise it's upwards of two dozen wires, unbolt the ladder and mountings and drop them on the ground or a truck with a rail based crane or similar. The ATS are usually just bolted to the sleepers AFAICT.

I'm guessing that these would be removed at the time of NFO commissioning, although I could be wrong! A work crew should be able to get in there and remove them without any physical conflicts with the NFO changeover work.

They'd be for the project to sort out. It's normal for projects to run for a while after "go-live" to tidy everything up (this won't be the end of the GTI project). Besides, they want that stuff gone to reduce maintenance costs... It will have been built into the project's scope from the start.

Yes, I would imagine that they'd want to de-energise as much as possible of the OHW, it will allow them to remove the OHW and track without an outage (although they may simply abandon the track). I can't imagine them using recovered wire, OHW wire wears over time and now is as good a chance as any to replace it (plus it'd be a pain to move it for re-use without getting it all kinked). My guess is that they'll remove the section of wire and replace it (including some that's to the east of the flyover - up to the next OHW break)

I'm guessing that these would be removed at the time of NFO commissioning, although I could be wrong! A work crew should be able to get in there and remove them without any physical conflicts with the NFO changeover work.

Hmmm - 'maestro' how do you break up the previous message that way?!

Yes, the 'scope-of-work' will set who does the 'tidy-up' and either way it will be private contractors, so best to use those already contracted I guess; once the crossovers are out of service they logically cease to exist as far as getting SWRL operational goes, and unless a GTI contract step, wouldn't count to a final completion date. I doubt they would be left for any great period as points aggravate bogie bearings and wheels, and traction motors if of the DC type. And passengers of course!

I imagine the entire junction area is de-energised, what with cranes and people about. I guessed the OHW to be the first to go so the OHW truck-rail vehicles can use the tracks. Existing OHW to remove on the EHUP should be in the same condition as the next few kilometres beyond the NFO, so ought to be acceptable - it's mostly a matter of how difficult to avoid kinking the old wire. (And my head dislikes unnecessary waste also). Renewing the entire next section after the NFO will obviously depend on condition, length and the number of crew available for the weeked.

As best I know of it, GTI was the station upgrade and P1/P4/NFO - what is still to be done of the GTI project after that? The SFO and junction would be part of GLRL I'd have thought.

FYI - The June 2014 GLRL Construction Update is now available from the Gov't Project web site.
The only item of 'visible' note is that Rickard Road (Bridge) is scheduled to re-open June 4.

From the CU:
"Electrical system and site security milestones
--------------------------------------------
Trains using the new 11 kilometre South West Rail Link will be powered by three electrical substations.
One is at Edmondson Park Station, the second (and largest) is at Denham Court and the third is at Rossmore Stabling Yard."

Testing and SydneyTrains inspections apparently last until around October.

Hmmm - 'maestro' how do you break up the previous message that way?!

Painfully, actually. I copied the quoted message and pasted a couple of times (making sure to press enter a couple of times before I paste, as I wasn't able to press enter between the quotes afterwards) and then deleting sections from the quotes as required.

I am doing this one a different way, by viewing the source and copying just the "quote" tags.

Yes, the 'scope-of-work' will set who does the 'tidy-up' and either way it will be private contractors, so best to use those already contracted I guess; once the crossovers are out of service they logically cease to exist as far as getting SWRL operational goes, and unless a GTI contract step, wouldn't count to a final completion date. I doubt they would be left for any great period as points aggravate bogie bearings and wheels, and traction motors if of the DC type. And passengers of course!

It is normal for the final state of the system to have been well planned (which would include the removal of equipment made redundant) and I am confident that it would have been included in the main contract for the GTI work.

I would imagine the entire junction area is de-energised, what with cranes and people about, but I guessed the OHW to be the first to go to allow use of OHW truck-rail vehicles to get it down. The existing OHW to remove on the EHUP should be in the same condition as the next few kilometres beyond the NFO, so ought to be acceptable - it's mostly a matter of how difficult to avoid kinking the old wire. (And my head dislikes unnecessary waste also). Renewing the entire next section after the NFO will obviously depend on condition and the number of crew available for the weeked.

I also dislike waste, however for the couple of grand for new OHW it would save stuffing around with the old wire (which has possibly become a bit brittle with age/use), it would be a faster turnaround (I would imagine that their schedule for the NFO cutover would be tight), and would renew the wire (whether it is currently "acceptable" or not, it still pushes back the next maintenance date). Based on my previous experience with this sort of decision, it seems more likely that it will all be shiny new OHW.

As best I know of it, GTI was the station upgrade and P1/P4/NFO - what is still to be done of the GTI project after that? The SFO and junction would be part of GLRL I'd have thought.

Probably just cleanup (remove redundant track, points, OHW, signals, electrical gear, the cleanup of their site offices and workshops and some landscaping.). They're getting quite close to the cleanup stage on the GLRL as well, by the looks of things!

Painfully, actually. I copied the quoted message and pasted a couple of times (making sure to press enter a couple of times before I paste, as I wasn't able to press enter between the quotes afterwards) and then deleting sections from the quotes as required.

I am doing this one a different way, by viewing the source and copying just the "quote" tags.

It is normal for the final state of the system to have been well planned (which would include the removal of equipment made redundant) and I am confident that it would have been included in the main contract for the GTI work.

I also dislike waste, however for the couple of grand for new OHW it would save stuffing around with the old wire (which has possibly become a bit brittle with age/use), it would be a faster turnaround (I would imagine that their schedule for the NFO cutover would be tight), and would renew the wire (whether it is currently "acceptable" or not, it still pushes back the next maintenance date). Based on my previous experience with this sort of decision, it seems more likely that it will all be shiny new OHW.

Probably just cleanup (remove redundant track, points, OHW, signals, electrical gear, the cleanup of their site offices and workshops and some landscaping.). They're getting quite close to the cleanup stage on the GLRL as well, by the looks of things!

Hmmm - Pleased it's closer to rocket science than just pressing a button!

A trip to Holsworthy and back suggested there is an OHW break about 50 yards (oops) metres from the end of the flyover rather than a few kilometres, which greatly improves the chance 'new' wires would/could be run from there to about 3 masts up the flyover's exit ramp. (The FO OHW is already terminated at a tension mast near the exit of the FO). This area appears to be rather hard to see from a 'public' space, so the final result probably wouldn't be visible other than from an EH Down train come Tuesday morning. (Jun 10) Each ramp of the southern flyover was OH-wired in two days, but the track was already in place; three days to finish off the OHW on the small segment remaining may not be excessively liberal.

With most of the engineering work now done, I suspect quite a few of the GTA site offices are already empty. Typically, the final step is 'site restoration', which has something of an irony when they still leave an 11 km railway behind....

A trip to Holsworthy and back suggested there is an OHW break about 50 yards (oops) metres from the end of the flyover rather than a few kilometres, which greatly improves the chance 'new' wires would/could be run from there to about 3 masts up the flyover's exit ramp. (The FO OHW is already terminated at a tension mast near the exit of the FO). This area appears to be rather hard to see from a 'public' space, so the final result probably wouldn't be visible other than from an EH Down train come Tuesday morning. (Jun 10) Each ramp of the southern flyover was OH-wired in two days, but the track was already in place; three days to finish off the OHW on the small segment remaining may not be excessively liberal.

I'm not too sure of their timeline, but my guess is that it would look something like...

1) Formalities of handing over section for maintenance
2) Remove old section of OHW
3) Remove old track
4) Prepare ground for new track (possibly excavate and put new base-ballast in)
5) Lay and weld new track
6) Ballast, tamp and grind new track
7) Install and tension new OHW.
8) Commission track circuits over new section, plus any signalling that relies on it.
9) Contingency time, in case things run over schedule.
10) Formalities of handing the section back.

It all adds up, and night shifts can be expensive so they'd be prepared to take a bit of wastage if it reduced work on off-shifts.

There may be some more info in the community update (although I doubt if they'll go into that much detail).


Actually - the biggest question I have is when will they modify the timetable to better use the new flyover?


Oh, and why do I still get 8) instead of "8" and ")" (I have disabled BBCode and emoticons).

The East Hills Up Main Flyover will be opened the day after the Queens Birthday weekend shutdown. The existing EHUM track is being removed completely. essentially, a lot of work will happen over the three days. The leppington section won't open to the public until 2015, and testing starts in October.

The East Hills Up Main Flyover will be opened the day after the Queens Birthday weekend shutdown. The existing EHUM track is being removed completely. essentially, a lot of work will happen over the three days. The leppington section won't open to the public until 2015, and testing starts in October.

oh, and Platform 3 is the new down turnback platform, not platform 1 anymore. platform 2 will be used as a up terminator, with a shunt to three to return to campbelltown

I'm not too sure of their timeline, but my guess is that it would look something like...

1) Formalities of handing over section for maintenance
2) Remove old section of OHW
3) Remove old track
4) Prepare ground for new track (possibly excavate and put new base-ballast in)
5) Lay and weld new track
6) Ballast, tamp and grind new track
7) Install and tension new OHW.
8) Commission track circuits over new section, plus any signalling that relies on it.
9) Contingency time, in case things run over schedule.
10) Formalities of handing the section back.

It all adds up, and night shifts can be expensive so they'd be prepared to take a bit of wastage if it reduced work on off-shifts.

There may be some more info in the community update (although I doubt if they'll go into that much detail).

Actually - the biggest question I have is when will they modify the timetable to better use the new flyover?

Oh, and why do I still get 8) instead of "8" and ")" (I have disabled BBCode and emoticons).

Steps 1&2 would be finished before Saturday sun up I would guess.
Removing the old track may be limited to removing the points from the down main and cutting the EHUM in the vicinity of the NFO exit. Given the machinery now available I've always envisaged cutting the old track and hauling it over (sleepers and all) and welding to the FO exit. Cutting further back towards Holsworthy and putting in an 'all new' section IS another possibility. Once the old OHW is down the points can be cut and rail clips removed, ready for the heavy lifting by light of day.

There is a 'new' signal near the top of the FO exit ramp (EH19.80 YL/EYL) and once the rails are re-welded, the track section behind it should extend all the way to the next UP signal EH19.30.

Neither the NFO or new platforms will have any obvious affect on the current timetables, so I expect Sydney Trains will wait for the Leppington branch to become available before doing any major timetable re-shuffling or cessation of turn-back trains. In the interim at least some users will notice the convenience of getting a Glenfield terminator and only having to cross the platform to get a train to Campbelltown.

I imagine your browser also has controls for emoticon presentation, much like mail clients do.

The East Hills Up Main Flyover will be opened the day after the Queens Birthday weekend shutdown. The existing EHUM track is being removed completely. essentially, a lot of work will happen over the three days. The leppington section won't open to the public until 2015, and testing starts in October.

Trackwork-wise, all that is needed for the cut-over is to remove EHUM points from the DM and join the EHUM to the flyover - if that gets done without a glitch they may have the resources working over the long weekend to remove the dead piece of track (or at least start on it). A recent whizz-by west of Blacktown showed a siding going into what I think was the Sydney Trains Maintainence depot; will have to give it another look. If it was, a future change might be to put the EHDM on the old EHUM alignment coming around the curve passed the Glenfield depot...

oh, and Platform 3 is the new down turnback platform, not platform 1 anymore. platform 2 will be used as a up terminator, with a shunt to three to return to Campbelltown

Not heard this mentioned about P2, but it does explain the Points Cleared signs and miniature ground signal GD15 ahead of the crossover. A return to Leppington/Rossmore Yards would also be eventually possible. (Useful for Leppington driver training yo-yo's once it commissions.)

1) Formalities of handing over section for maintenance
2) Remove old section of OHW
3) Remove old track
4) Prepare ground for new track (possibly excavate and put new base-ballast in)
5) Lay and weld new track
6) Ballast, tamp and grind new track
7) Install and tension new OHW.
8) Commission track circuits over new section, plus any signalling that relies on it.
9) Contingency time, in case things run over schedule.
10) Formalities of handing the section back.

Making the EHUP jump tracks is only one of the weekend's tasks. (But likely the biggest.)
11) Stop blocks to remove.
12) 9+ 'old' signals and train stops to remove (concrete bases to go later?).
13) 27+ 'new' signals to uncover or ready for service. (Note jump in signal count!)
14) Southern part of P1 track, all P4 track, new crossovers - to clean rails.
15) Disable three redundant crossovers.
16) Signal Control Centre will likely want to exercise everything at least twice; come Tuesday a.m. it has to get people to work!
17) Tweak station signs and announcements.
And that's just the fairly obvious.

Making the EHUP jump tracks is only one of the weekend's tasks. (But likely the biggest.)
11) Stop blocks to remove.
12) 9+ 'old' signals and train stops to remove (concrete bases to go later?).
13) 27+ 'new' signals to uncover or ready for service. (Note jump in signal count!)
14) Southern part of P1 track, all P4 track, new crossovers - to clean rails.
15) Disable three redundant crossovers.
16) Signal Control Centre will likely want to exercise everything at least twice; come Tuesday a.m. it has to get people to work!
17) Tweak station signs and announcements.
And that's just the fairly obvious.

Yeah, but most of that can be done by a separate crew while another crew works on the NFO (except for number 16)

Yeah, but most of that can be done by a separate crew while another crew works on the NFO (except for number 16)

I was suggesting essential work (I could think of) needed to get the GTI up to 'ready to go live'. How many people will actually be working will take a lot more consideration, though not by me.

What tasks have to be serialised, what can be done in parallel, availability of specialist trades, tools and machinery, wether tasks require 'secure' work areas (like track welding), staff availability (it IS a public holiday long weekend); I can recall in my own past employment when overtime hinged on the availability of an OHS nurse. If all goes brilliantly well (how often does that happen?) there may be some optional tasks that might be able to start (say, for elects or OHW) but specialist operators may be on shift just for a single task.

FYI: The June 2014 GTI CU is available from the Gov't Project web site.

Activities as expected.

FYI: The June 2014 GTI CU is available from the Gov't Project web site.

Activities as expected.

"As expected" was pretty much my take on it as well...

Work on the flyover transition will take place from "2:00am Saturday (7 June) through to 4:00am Tuesday (10 June) (in time for services to travel over the Northern Flyover for the first time)"

and "will involve large tamping vehicles and heavy lighting." so they're obviously doing significant night work.

It also says that the work "will include removal of old signalling equipment and old overhead wire foundations.", so maybe those old signals will get ripped out in June rather than simply covered up.

Also, the SWRL website says "Track and signal testing using a test train travelling on the tracks between Holsworthy, Casula, Glenfield and Ingleburn Stations will occur from 2:00am Saturday, 7 June through to 2:00am on Tuesday, 10 June 2014."

It also says that the work "will include removal of old signalling equipment and old overhead wire foundations.", so maybe those old signals will get ripped out in June rather than simply covered up.

I would be bank on all the old signals being in the dirt by Saturday lunch.

"As expected" was pretty much my take on it as well...

Work on the flyover transition will take place from "2:00am Saturday (7 June) through to 4:00am Tuesday (10 June) (in time for services to travel over the Northern Flyover for the first time)"

and "will involve large tamping vehicles and heavy lighting." so they're obviously doing significant night work.

It also says that the work "will include removal of old signalling equipment and old overhead wire foundations.", so maybe those old signals will get ripped out in June rather than simply covered up.

Also, the SWRL website says "Track and signal testing using a test train travelling on the tracks between Holsworthy, Casula, Glenfield and Ingleburn Stations will occur from 2:00am Saturday, 7 June through to 2:00am on Tuesday, 10 June 2014."

Covering the old signals wasn't really an option; in all cases the new signals are mounted a few metres directly behind the old, which would do a good job of obscuring the new signals until almost on top of them - sighting distance is a component of braking distance. Covering is possible if the 'old' is ground-based and the 'new' gantry-mounted but there's only one place where that happens.

If they're pulling out old OHW foundations then they may also pull the old signal foundations too - they shouldn't be buried as deep as mast bases...

And pleased they are going to do signal testing with a real 'train' - it could be loco hauled set of cars but an EMU would be better, to also give the OHW a functional test and a scrape at the same time. I doubt the EHUP FO will be ready before Sunday tho. Perhaps the new track testing car(s) will get a look-in?

I would be bank on all the old signals being in the dirt by Saturday lunch.

With only nine or so to 'attend' and powered hand tools, that is certainly possible.

Just 'discovered' there's a new June 7-9 CU on the Gov't SWRL Project web site. The work area map on page 2 shows it extending as far as Edmondson Park station; the two signals just beyond the SFO are actually part of the Glenfield interlocking...maybe?

Curious about the train testing process, so a dumb question:  

When testing, do they only run in the direction of normal travel, or run back and forth like a shuttle to cover the required single track/signal/detectors in the shortest time (one driver at each end for efficiency?) or would they run them all the way up the track to wherever the next crossover would be and run them back down the "down" track?

Um ur let me guess, this line will open for passengers sometime near March 2015?

While there may be SOME residents in that area, is it a marginal seat?

By the way, doesn't this line go through and to "almost the middle of nowhere"?

Curious about the train testing process, so a dumb question:

When testing, do they only run in the direction of normal travel, or run back and forth like a shuttle to cover the required single track/signal/detectors in the shortest time (one driver at each end for efficiency?) or would they run them all the way up the track to wherever the next crossover would be and run them back down the "down" track?

As far as I know automatic track circuits aren't normally configured for reverse running except when bi-directional running is installed. At one time IIRC if a train tripped a start signal at the end of a platform when stopping, the GA prohibited setting back into the platform.That was in relay days so things might be more amenable. On the other hsnd if a train is travelling against the normal direction of traffic it clearly is 'out of control' and all bets are off regardless!

Taking into consideration the 'range' to be covered by the test train, I know there is a crossover at Ingleburn, and probably at Liverpool, but not sure if there's one at Holworthy. Of equal interest if there is one between the SFO and Edmondon Park station. Hmmm I am sure there is a crossover at the EH Army Camp junction but can't recall if it is OH-wired. (The crossover; the Army Camp line isn't.) There is a wired crossover at lease at East Hills.