A-City trains

 
  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
. . . . the ride was extremely bouncy all the way from the GSR carriage wash through to the entrance to the Anzac Highway underpass - think of the road to Pinnaroo. Was this section of the track rebuilt last year or did they just add the wires over the top of the existing track?
justapassenger

This section was re-laid, along with almost all of the rest of the Noarlunga line - I remember seeing the construction crews at work here from the Anzac Hwy bridge. I agree, as with some other locations along the Seaford line, the ride quality is atrocious considering the track was rebuilt from foundation up.

I tend to find the ride is worst at locations where trains get up to a reasonable speed. Admittedly there are not many of these, as most of the journey you will be either starting from a station stop, slowing for the next station or travelling at 25 m.p.h because there is a yellow signal. West Parklands and HC Beach/Lonsdale are where I find the ride worst - the particular motion can make me start to feel nauseous, and I never suffer from travel sickness normally. Plus I think it's worse in EMUs than DEMUs - presumably because the latter have more stabilising "ballast" slung beneath the frame.

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  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
A couple of times whilst travelling on EMUs I have heard a funny noise that sounds like a sping being dragged against something with a twanging sound at the end of it. Both times it seemed to eminate from above the roof of the leading car and not from the pantograph. Has anyone else heard this and does anyone know what it is?
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

A couple of times whilst travelling on EMUs I have heard a funny noise that sounds like a sping being dragged against something with a twanging sound at the end of it. Both times it seemed to eminate from above the roof of the leading car and not from the pantograph. Has anyone else heard this and does anyone know what it is?
nm39


Would be the air con I'd imagine but I don't know why it would make that kind of noise.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

This section was re-laid, along with almost all of the rest of the Noarlunga line - I remember seeing the construction crews at work here from the Anzac Hwy bridge. I agree, as with some other locations along the Seaford line, the ride quality is atrocious considering the track was rebuilt from foundation up.
"1S47"
Oh dear, that's rather uninspiring.

If/when the underpass access to the station gets completed, I'd be tempted to get off an inbound train and use an Anzac Highway bus route into the centre of the city. It would be a smoother ride and get me closer to my destination.
I tend to find the ride is worst at locations where trains get up to a reasonable speed. Admittedly there are not many of these, as most of the journey you will be either starting from a station stop, slowing for the next station or travelling at 25 m.p.h because there is a yellow signal. West Parklands and HC Beach/Lonsdale are where I find the ride worst - the particular motion can make me start to feel nauseous, and I never suffer from travel sickness normally. Plus I think it's worse in EMUs than DEMUs - presumably because the latter have more stabilising "ballast" slung beneath the frame.
"1S47"
I haven't yet ridden the parklands section on an EMU, but during the trips I have had on EMUs the motion seems to be mostly violent yawing from side to side, more similar to the nauseous rocking and rolling of the Flexity trams than the alarming pitching up and down I experienced on the DEMU going past the parklands. The yawing was violent enough to tip my bike over on one trip despite it being my wider flat-bar commuter bike and being parked upside down with the handlebars and seat forming a tripod - this was the first time I've ever had either of my bikes fall over on any AdMet train or even bus since I started putting it upside down in this way.

It seems to sum up my general impression of the EMUs quite well - that they are decent, but when combined with the brilliance of the DEMUs and the elimination of the faster services, we could well be in the world-leading position of being the first railway system ever where electrification was a downgrade. Everything about the interior feels cheap, as if the build quality reached a peak with the DEMUs and with the A-City it has now regressed almost down to the level of the Jumbos - but at least the A-City doesn't have the frame windup that the Jumbos shared with Australian cars of the era! The DEMUs all went many years before they needed even a cosmetic refurb, but I'd hate to see what the interiors of the A-City units look like in even five years.

The Bombardier Electrostar EMUs that I travelled on in Britain gave a similar impression - but then again Bombardier at Derby has been going through the motions like Dandenong for a few years. The Alstom Juniper sets were somewhere in the middle being almost as good as our DEMUs, while the Siemens Desiro units took it to a whole extra level beyond even our rock solid DEMUs.
A couple of times whilst travelling on EMUs I have heard a funny noise that sounds like a sping being dragged against something with a twanging sound at the end of it. Both times it seemed to eminate from above the roof of the leading car and not from the pantograph. Has anyone else heard this and does anyone know what it is?
"nm39"

Would be the air con I'd imagine but I don't know why it would make that kind of noise.
"Milkomeda"
It could be the movement of the wires ahead of the pantograph making that sound - remember that the way they behave is dependent on numerous factors which change from day to day and across the course of every day with the weather.

The last time I used one, there was no chance of hearing any strange scraping noises as the A/C in the leading car was making a deafening roar.
  davida62 Station Master

No Sparkys today???

The Transit Times app shows no 4000 services in either direction this morning.

Is this a fault in the app or are they really not running?

I haven't heard any through Marino (but it is pretty windy).
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
I've seen multiple on the tracks today.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
I've seen multiple on the tracks today.
Tonsley213

I travelled on one this morning.
  davida62 Station Master

Must just be the Transit Times app then.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Would be the air con I'd imagine but I don't know why it would make that kind of noise.
Milkomeda

Heard it again this morning. It came from the A/C vent and sounded like a fan fouling on something. It could be that the fans have too much rubber damping on the mounts and it hits the duct or something.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Must just be the Transit Times app then.
"davida62"
More likely that the Adelaide Metro person who edits the GTFS feed has forgotten to select certain services as electric or been too busy with other tasks, there aren't any showing on the website either.  The "real time" feed doesn't actually take any real time data from buses/trains/trams, it relies on the driver calling control to say they are running late and then control telling AdMet they are running late so someone can update the data feed.

There was a real problem with the real time data for a bus I was on earlier today  - it had the wheelchair icon showing despite being an old three step bus, unfortunately there was a lady who had trusted the real time data and couldn't get on with her wheelchair. The driver didn't want to own the issue and was all ready to just leave her there on the side of the road until I told him I was calling the ABC, funny how three simple letters can make all the difference. The absurd thing was that the few seconds it took to call his controller and ask for an access cab to be dispatched didn't make any difference to the timeliness of the bus, we still had to wait for the timetable at the next timed stop!
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
More likely that the Adelaide Metro person who edits the GTFS feed has forgotten to select certain services as electric or been too busy with other tasks, there aren't any showing on the website either. The "real time" feed doesn't actually take any real time data from buses/trains/trams, it relies on the driver calling control to say they are running late and then control telling AdMet they are running late so someone can update the data feed.
justapassenger

Why are you making smeg up?
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
More likely that the Adelaide Metro person who edits the GTFS feed has forgotten to select certain services as electric or been too busy with other tasks, there aren't any showing on the website either. The "real time" feed doesn't actually take any real time data from buses/trains/trams, it relies on the driver calling control to say they are running late and then control telling AdMet they are running late so someone can update the data feed.

There was a real problem with the real time data for a bus I was on earlier today - it had the wheelchair icon showing despite being an old three step bus, unfortunately there was a lady who had trusted the real time data and couldn't get on with her wheelchair. The driver didn't want to own the issue and was all ready to just leave her there on the side of the road until I told him I was calling the ABC, funny how three simple letters can make all the difference. The absurd thing was that the few seconds it took to call his controller and ask for an access cab to be dispatched didn't make any difference to the timeliness of the bus, we still had to wait for the timetable at the next timed stop!
justapassenger

Things like this make you want to hit somebody. As you said it only takes a couple of seconds on the blower to arrange an access cab for the person. Too many drivers do not either give a fig or just don't think clearly in situations like this! On my run they have express buses and the number of times that a person has got on one and has to watch as their stop is expressed is also not a good move. Drivers on these services should enquire of passengers were they want to go and advise them accordingly, if a PA was put into the buses they could do this simply with a announcement that "This 254X is express to Arndale from this stop onwards"! It would  take only a matter of seconds, and any one who wanted to get off before Arndale can then get off the bus, most drivers on these express services say nothing at all. Sure you should read the desto but we have been guilty at some time of not doing it!
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Why are you making smeg up?
"Tonsley213"
If you have any evidence to suggest that there is genuine real time data uploaded from vehicles in service, please show it. Make sure there's a lot, because the fact that the "real time" pages show services coming and going without any real vehicle coming along would suggest that it is actually just a feed of what should be coming according to the timetable.
  wogman Station Staff

Location: One good foam away from Hawthorn station.
If you have any evidence to suggest that there is genuine real time data uploaded from vehicles in service, please show it. Make sure there's a lot, because the fact that the "real time" pages show services coming and going without any real vehicle coming along would suggest that it is actually just a feed of what should be coming according to the timetable.
justapassenger

For what it is worth the following is from https://adelaidemetro.com.au/Announcements/News/More-than-7-500-stops-now-connected-to-Real-Time

"Using any internet-capable device, commuters can log onto the Adelaide Metro website, access the real-time information and know exactly when their service will be arriving via GPS technology installed in vehicles as part of the Metrocard ticketing system."

This ties in with my understanding that the Metrocard systems all have a realtime Telstra NextG connection in them and that there is also a GPS capability over this connection.

Doesn't always mean that the backend systems get it right or that the correct service information is related to the right vehicle, just that the vehicles are telling some central system where they are.


Wogman
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
For what it is worth the following is from https://adelaidemetro.com.au/Announcements/News/More-than-7-500-stops-now-connected-to-Real-Time

"Using any internet-capable device, commuters can log onto the Adelaide Metro website, access the real-time information and know exactly when their service will be arriving via GPS technology installed in vehicles as part of the Metrocard ticketing system."

This ties in with my understanding that the Metrocard systems all have a realtime Telstra NextG connection in them and that there is also a GPS capability over this connection.

Doesn't always mean that the backend systems get it right or that the correct service information is related to the right vehicle, just that the vehicles are telling some central system where they are.


Wogman
wogman

What it says and what actually happens though are two completely different things. Even their own real time indicators on train platforms are not accurate either. And they should be at this point in time given GPS capability in just about  all types of PT!
  wogman Station Staff

Location: One good foam away from Hawthorn station.
I agree David, I was only adding some info to JAP's request:

"If you have any evidence to suggest that there is genuine real time data uploaded from vehicles in service, please show it. "

It's clear that the vehicles have GPS data uploaded in real time, it's what happens afterwards that is questionable.


Wogman.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I agree David, I was only adding some info to JAP's request:

"If you have any evidence to suggest that there is genuine real time data uploaded from vehicles in service, please show it. "

It's clear that the vehicles have GPS data uploaded in real time, it's what happens afterwards that is questionable.


Wogman.
wogman

Yes that is it, if someone does not do their work then it simply does not get updated it just continues as it was set! You can see this on real time at railway stations when there is a hold up or cancellation of service because of an incident. It will still show the trains as arriving etc although they cannot physically do it! I had this happen at Woodville once when work was being done and the trains had been replaced by buses, the real time indicator still showed what should have been, it was like this for a day or so till it was simply switched off! Must be frustrating though for both staff and intending passengers!

All these real time indicators are, are a radio type link back to a central area I was shown one at a railway station once and the Adelaide Metro person explained it! It is simply a computer linked to these units by radio or whatever so if the central computer does not update then it just continues to show what it did formerly. It is timed to the timetable and most times can be out by a lot. I have stood at Woodville going to the Port and the real time says the train will arrive in 2 minutes however when you look down the track towards Adelaide not a headlight can be seen. Then suddenly the head light appears as it comes into Bowden station, real time telling me that my train is 1 minute away. It takes about 8-9 minutes to get to Woodville by train from Bowden. So the actual GPS devices on the vehicles are not linked straight to the real time indicators! Wish they were though!
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
Let's get this straight. The real time indicators on station platforms (the LED type) are not connected in any way to the GPS system in metroCARD, that are connected to the signalling system computers.

The LCD screens on platforms seem to be in no way connected to any form of realtime updates, they seem to just display the scheduled time from a database.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I think you might find that the LED real time indicators are not connected to the actual signal system computer as a while back all the real time indicators were blank or showing they were not in service but the signalling system was still working. I think you will find that these are completely removed from any safety type systems like signalling etc. I would assume and this is only an assumption that they work on a timed sequence as the day I was told that the train was 1 minute away from Woodville when it was still coming into Bowden tells me that it is not linked to the signalling system. If it was it would tell me a bit more exact time than what it posted up. Also the PSA on this train informed me when I asked about the lateness of the train he said it left Adelaide late.

So using these facts as a source I would say it is a stand alone type of thing not really connected to anything! Except the real time indicators that is! Even if there is a disruption it will not tell you anything most times it still indicates the next train time, but it will not be there!
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
I may have simplified it a bit to much, the LED information sign had their system connected to the signal interlocking systems and a SQL database of timetabled services. I got my information from the technical document I downloaded from http://irse.org.au/publications/technical-papers-1/1049-2006-nov-2-erdos-the-trans-adelaide-ctc-replacement-project unfortunately you have to login into this site to access it. If you would like to have a read of it PM me.

I will say again that the other day when my Tonsley train was running 4 minutes late only the LED screen and the station speaker box told me it was running 4 minutes late.
  AusArcher Beginner

SA Planning, Transport and Infrastructure have just posted on Facebook that 4007 will commence service this weekend with the Footy Express runs for the showdown.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Anyone heard/seen anything about 4009?
  wogman Station Staff

Location: One good foam away from Hawthorn station.
I saw 4008 running as a "test train" at about 1150 this morning though Clarence Park on the up.

Wogman
  Paul Surguy Beginner

Anyone heard/seen anything about 4009?
nm39

Hi Guys just been to the Seaford depot,there are 6 EMU stabled,plus  2sets of 3car DMU,the doors on the northern end of the building are open cannot see inside,also a 2car DMU went past on the main north bound at3.30 pm Paul
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Doesn't look like 4007 was used at all yesterday from what I saw it was sitting in the depot the whole time.

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