New Metro timetables from July 27

 
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Firstly, stations like Dennis and Darebin shouldn't exist.

Secondly, and what doesn't seem to be getting through to you, is that the patronage beyond Eltham, in tiny, so tiny that it shouldn't even exist, let alone be serviced by express services.

And your final paragraph just highlights how little an idea you have.



Weekday Boardings xxxx

Those stations between Clifton Hill and Jolimont have far more patronage than Hurstbridge, Wattle Glen and Diamond Creek.

Sponsored advertisement

  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Firstly, stations like Dennis and Darebin shouldn't exist.

Secondly, and what doesn't seem to be getting through to you, is that the patronage beyond Eltham, in tiny, so tiny that it shouldn't even exist, let alone be serviced by express services.

And your final paragraph just highlights how little an idea you have.



Weekday Boardings xxxx

Those stations between Clifton Hill and Jolimont have far more patronage than Hurstbridge, Wattle Glen and Diamond Creek.
ZH836301

These are - "unofficial” stats last week on boardings at Melbourne’s railway stations in 2008-09. "
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Metro CEO Andrew Lezala said Melburnians needed to swap cars for public transport to help secure the city's future.  - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/metro-ceo-andrew-lezala-says-melbournians-need-to-get-out-of-their-cars-to-keep-the-city-moving/story-e6frg6n6-1226606451150?nk=f2994a9156cdf7e26dc4d09a776feccc


People like myself are not going be give up their car travel  - if alternative is a stopping all station train service.

Only way I give up  driving my car  travel - if metro offers a faster and frequent train service and the includes express trains in off-peak time.

it about 84 % of people in Melbourne use cars compare 16% use public transport.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
People like myself are not going be give up their car travel - if alternative is a stopping all station train service.

Only way I give up driving my car travel - if metro offers a faster and frequent train service and the includes express trains in off-peak time.

it about 84 % of people in Melbourne use cars compare 16% use public transport.
melbtrip

Yes, but isn't that mainly due to infrequent services rather than express trains?
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Yes, but isn't that mainly due to infrequent services rather than express trains?
railblogger

It due to lack of Express trains - it just easy to drive near the city and park there and walk about 10 to 15 mins.

I normally travel to the city on the weekend and there is free car parking near the CBD area.
From next year - free trams in the CBD and docklands - so people like myself will just drive near the city and park and walk to the start of the CBD area and catch the free tram service in to town or take someone I know with a parking sign ( free car parking spot in the CBD for Two hours).

Last Sunday - I drive to Werribee and it take me only 55 mins - by using public transport it would have taken me  1hr 16mins - 1hr 30mins.

But sad thing about it if  their was express on both these lines it would take me about 55 to 60mins.

People should look at Princes Freeway at Werribee and see how many people use the freeway and then go to Werribee Railway station and see how many people use the train service.

Only small number of people would be using the train services from Werribee compare to lots people driving on the Princes Freeway

Melbourne's weekend traffic is rivalling weekday congestion, VicRoads data shows.
Figures released by VicRoads show road congestion between 11:00am and 2:00pm on Saturdays and Sundays in the city is worse than at the same time during the week.
Across the whole day, the number of cars on the road on Saturday is about 86 per cent of traffic levels on a weekday. That figure drops to 75 per cent on Sundays.
Director of road operations at VicRoads Dean Zabrieszach said the weekend traffic on Melbourne's key roads is getting worse.
"On weekends, the growing trend in travel activity is attributable to additional population, and hence traffic volumes, additional recreational activity, and to an extent additional business and commercial activity compared to a decade ago," he said.
The figures have prompted the Victorian Government to urge more people to embrace public transport.
"A lot of these people are just coming in to shop, others are just meeting friends for coffee or going to the theatre," Victoria's Public Transport Minister Terry Mulder said.
"There's plenty of capacity on the public transport network and I would suggest it's a lot quicker to get on board a bus, a train or a tram then it is to try to travel on a number of these roads."
Mr Mulder says a Ministerial Advisory Council is already investigating solutions.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-24/melbourne-weekend-traffic-rivals-mid-week-congestion/5475554



It about time that state government listen to what people want and the is fast and quick public transport.

Most people from outer suburban areas do not want use stopping stations service - an example of this is at Pakenham station:
People have a choice between Metro train (stopping all stations) or V/Line service (express) and most people going to the city will pick the express train (V/Line service) over an Stopping all station service(metro).
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
It due to lack of Express trains - it just easy to drive near the city and park there and walk about 10 to 15 mins.
melbtrip

Why don't you take a look at other cities such as Rome and Hong Kong where every train stops all stations.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Why don't you take a look at other cities such as Rome and Hong Kong where every train stops all stations.
railblogger

I  do not need to look at other cities around the world - only thing I care about get from Point A to Point B in the faster possible way.

This what most people want - to get from  Point A to Point B faster Possible way.

This why there is large demand for the train services in peak time because the train services offers an faster service (express services).

But it sad when comes to off-peak - stopping all stations and with little to no  express services in place  for outer suburban areas.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I do not need to look at other cities around the world - only thing I care about get from Point A to Point B in the faster possible way.

This what most people want - to get from Point A to Point B faster Possible way.

This why there is large demand for the train services in peak time because the train services offers an faster service (express services).

But it sad when comes to off-peak - stopping all stations and with little to no express services in place for outer suburban areas.
melbtrip

Then why don't we shut some stations to help increase the average line speed? Much better than variations in stopping patterns.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Then why don't we shut some stations to help increase the average line speed? Much better than variations in stopping patterns.
railblogger

The problem with closing station - no political party wants waste political capital on closing them.

The government had problem take way 509 bus - it would be 10 times harder to remove these station in question compare to removing the 509 bus.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I'm sure a good deal of people on the Lilydale line would have preferred it if Laburnum was bulldozed rather than rebuilt. Likewise, what's keeping stations like East Camberwell still standing? Get rid of the flat junction for the Alamein line and East Camberwell loses its usefulness entirely, as trains don't have to wait there for the Alamein shuttle to get out of the way. Better still, convert the entire Alamein line to light rail already, the distance between Riversdale and Willison is pathetic (and it would also remove the tram square).

If we had more feeder buses, and more competitive bus routes (and frequencies) we wouldn't need so many intermediate stations (trams aren't really in the picture, unless you count Route 19 vs. the Upfield line for example). The problem is, public transport in Melbourne is still stuck in the old days, where alternative modes of transport like buses and trams are considered rivals.

Name as many bus routes you can think of, where the bus goes every which way but straight and when it does finally reach a destination such as a railway station, chances are the next train is 20 minutes away or has just left. Or the opposite, when a train arrives and is actually on time, but a bus is scheduled (more like "designed") to leave just before the every-half-an-hour train arrives at the station, or runs at odd frequencies like every 36 minutes (five buses every two hours). In fact, buses can't even meet up with buses on multiple occasions (901 Melbourne Airport and 286 Box Hill at Blackburn station is a common problem at night, as the hourly 286 is scheduled to leave two minutes before the half-hourly 901 arrives; the Flinders Street train on the other hand is 20 minutes away as well). To top it off, both buses are run by the same company, Transdev (and before that, it was Ventura, who "owned" NationalBus and Grenda/Invicta).
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Why don't you take a look at other cities such as Rome and Hong Kong where every train stops all stations.
railblogger

Melbourne is enormous and sparsely settled; it stretches nearly 120km from Pakenham to Bacchus Marsh. Paris has a mix of express and stopping trains that go from one end of the city to the other and London is in the process of doing the same with Thameslink and Cross-City lines; Melbourne has aspirations to be twice the size it is now so we should be planning to emulate the same thing.

Maybe eventually express trains from Frankston/Dandenong/Ringwood to the city and ultimately the airport?
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Talking to a brick wall would be less pointless than melbtrip.

The facts:

*Patronage beyond Eltham is tiny, and no higher than CHill-Jolimont (no evidence will convince melbtrip)
*CHill-Jolimont has a large number of alightings
*Pointless stations like Darebin could easily be demolished, rather than skipped haphazardly
*Convoluted stopping patterns with minor changes (skipping one or two select stations) don't work
*The Hurstbridge line has insufficient length and distant patronage to justify express services
*Patronage beyond Eltham represents a miniscule amount of total line patronage, but a large percentage of operating costs
*Running services beyond Eltham is a drain on resources that could be used providing more frequent services to the line
*In most cases frequency has higher impact on journey time (ie. through waiting time)
*Using passenger stats ignorantly is silly, PT modal division to the CBD is quite high
*Express services have no impact on most travel, as PT use to the CBD is already quite high
*Only beyond Dandenong, Blackburn, and Mentone are suburban express services justified, and of course Vline
*Large scale removal of pointless stations needs to be made to speed up services, which makes much more sense than random expresses

His attitude is not based on fact, but is guided selfishness (ie. he lives out there, wants an express, but has low time worth).

If Eltham to Hurstbridge was ditched you could upgrade frequency between the city and Eltham substantially at no added cost.


People like myself are not going be give up their car travel - if alternative is a stopping all station train service.
melbtrip

I don't believe you have a car.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
This why there is large demand for the train services in peak time because the train services offers an faster service (express services).

But it sad when comes to off-peak - stopping all stations and with little to no express services in place for outer suburban areas.
melbtrip

NO, the reason there is a large demand for train services in peak time, is because this is when most people need to travel. Most people don't have a say in when they start work/ school, so they travel at the time they need to. They don't sit there looking at a timetable and say I'll start work 2 hours later so I can save 10 minutes on the train trip to work. Get real.
  gmanning1 Junior Train Controller

Location: Sydney
NO, the reason there is a large demand for train services in peak time, is because this is when most people need to travel.
Gman_86

I certainly hope no-one else is going to argue with this point.

Most people don't have a say in when they start work/ school, so they travel at the time they need to.

I can't see many parents sending their kids to school before 7am or telling them to hang around the streets until after 6:30pm before coming home.

They don't sit there looking at a timetable and say I'll start work 2 hours later so I can save 10 minutes on the train trip to work.

Of course on the other hand, working people also love turning up hours before their start time and making the working day transit even longer.
  frezno Junior Train Controller

As others have mentioned, there is plenty of provision to run traralgon trains around suburban trains (Melbourne bound, at Dandenong, Westall, Oakleigh and Caulfield though by that point it's virtually useless. Traralgon bound is the same locations. The problem in doing so is it delays the metro service on average 3 minutes, and you'll rarely get metro to prioritise a Vlines punctuality over their own. I reckon about 8% of the trains I catch in a year get run around. I travel every day of the week and usually in off peak. It can even come down to who is traveling on a particular service. There used to be guy high up the PT foodchain who would call a friend at metrol to organise an Oakleigh runaround!

They really have botched the traralgon line beyond repair with this new 20 minute service to Pakenham and Cranboune. Traralgon Journey times are in some cases 10 minutes longer than current as a result of running more suburban trains. Through the middle of the weekday a 20 minute service is certainly not justified to either Cranbourne or Pakenham, and traralgon line users will suffer. But it's a vote winner for the important people of Melbourne of course.

However the even bigger issue is the reliability, or lack there of. In the current timetable, on weekends the Traralgon trains need to be on time to 4 minutes at Pakenham else they send the suburban service first. By the time the Vline train arrives in Melbourne it's 25 minutes late. It's virtually impossible to keep a Vline on time to 4 minutes (I have tried several times to explain this to "public transport advocates" and they just brush it off. Only melburnians matter and 'its Vlines problem to be on time'.
All you need is 4 minutes delay across 90+ kms of travel, and a more than 60 minute journey and its all gone. A couple of wheelchair passengers, an unruly person or a few minute late running Traralgon bound service is all it takes. The intelligent thing to do would have been to timetable the Vline train to follow the metro train. It would be a slow trip but more reliable with perhaps a 16 minute headway between the next train rather than 4.

From personal experience this affects me substantially on the weekends as I work in Melbourne, I don't have the luxury of a peak hour commute. Those trains actually matter.
So as it stands, I often have to come in to work an hour early on the weekends because I can't risk being 25 minutes late. This will now be extended to all 7 days of the week. PTV and the government really do not care about regional east commuters, someone down here must have really pissed someone off. I hope all those Pakenham/Cranbourne train users really enjoy their 10 minute service at the expense of workers like me, or people getting to their airport, medical appointments, connecting trains etc. We're screwed and the impending introduction of High Capacity Signalling will only make things worse.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Talking to a brick wall would be less pointless than melbtrip.

The facts:

*Patronage beyond Eltham is tiny, and no higher than CHill-Jolimont (no evidence will convince melbtrip)
*CHill-Jolimont has a large number of alightings
*Pointless stations like Darebin could easily be demolished, rather than skipped haphazardly
*Convoluted stopping patterns with minor changes (skipping one or two select stations) don't work
*The Hurstbridge line has insufficient length and distant patronage to justify express services
*Patronage beyond Eltham represents a miniscule amount of total line patronage, but a large percentage of operating costs
*Running services beyond Eltham is a drain on resources that could be used providing more frequent services to the line
*In most cases frequency has higher impact on journey time (ie. through waiting time)
*Using passenger stats ignorantly is silly, PT modal division to the CBD is quite high
*Express services have no impact on most travel, as PT use to the CBD is already quite high
*Only beyond Dandenong, Blackburn, and Mentone are suburban express services justified, and of course Vline
*Large scale removal of pointless stations needs to be made to speed up services, which makes much more sense than random expresses

His attitude is not based on fact, but is guided selfishness (ie. he lives out there, wants an express, but has low time worth).

If Eltham to Hurstbridge was ditched you could upgrade frequency between the city and Eltham substantially at no added cost.



I don't believe you have a car.
ZH836301


Yes - I do have a car(Toyota) and a car licence.

People in the outer suburban areas want express services - demand for express is great on the Hurstbridge railway line


There was a plan under connex to have a two tier system for the Hurstbridge line


No government is going waste political capital on closing railway stations - you can talk all you want about closing stations - it will not happen any-time soon

Metro CEO Andrew Lezala said Melburnians needed to swap cars for public transport to help secure the city's future. - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/me ... 9a776feccc
- A user


People like myself are not going be give up their car travel - if alternative is a stopping all station train service.

Only way I give up going by car - if metro offers a faster and frequent train service and the includes express trains in off-peak time.

it about 84 % of people in Melbourne use cars compare 16% use public transport.

If Public transport does not deliver what people want and then people like myself with continue to drive their cars.

The current governments and future governments will continue invest in to roads at a great rate then public transport.

Melbourne's weekend traffic is rivalling weekday congestion, VicRoads data shows.
Figures released by VicRoads show road congestion between 11:00am and 2:00pm on Saturdays and Sundays in the city is worse than at the same time during the week.
Across the whole day, the number of cars on the road on Saturday is about 86 per cent of traffic levels on a weekday. That figure drops to 75 per cent on Sundays.
Director of road operations at VicRoads Dean Zabrieszach said the weekend traffic on Melbourne's key roads is getting worse.

"On weekends, the growing trend in travel activity is attributable to additional population, and hence traffic volumes, additional recreational activity, and to an extent additional business and commercial activity compared to a decade ago," he said.

The figures have prompted the Victorian Government to urge more people to embrace public transport.

"A lot of these people are just coming in to shop, others are just meeting friends for coffee or going to the theatre," Victoria's Public Transport Minister Terry Mulder said.
"There's plenty of capacity on the public transport network and I would suggest it's a lot quicker to get on board a bus, a train or a tram then it is to try to travel on a number of these roads."
Mr Mulder says a Ministerial Advisory Council is already investigating solutions.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-24/melbourne-weekend-traffic-rivals-mid-week-congestion/5475554



In my view - it much easy to drive a car and then use public transport in Melbourne these days and it much faster to drive and then catch public transport.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
NO, the reason there is a large demand for train services in peak time, is because this is when most people need to travel. Most people don't have a say in when they start work/ school, so they travel at the time they need to. They don't sit there looking at a timetable and say I'll start work 2 hours later so I can save 10 minutes on the train trip to work. Get real.
Gman_86

There are some people in the community do have a choice when they travel and they can choose between travelling in off-peak and peak time.


The reason they pick to travel in peak time services because of the following reasons:


  • Frequent of services

  • Faster service (Express services)



The reason why the early bird fare has been often - to get less people to use the train network between 7am and 9am in the mornings and for those people can travel before the 7am incentive to do so.

What I say - there must be an incentive for people that can travel in off-peak time and they're the following:

  • Express services

  • Frequent services

  • Cost of travel



At that current moment there is no incentive for people that can travel in off-peak time to do so!
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

Am I the only one finding melbrip's posts harder and harder to understand?
  frezno Junior Train Controller

I agree. ^^^
He tends to get a bit over excited about some things. I do agree with him however that there absolutely positively should be express services, not only in peak hours on all lines, but on the longer lines throughout the day. There's really no need for every single Pakenham or Frankston train to stop all stations - no need for the little stations to have a 10 minute service. But once you've given it to them, you'll never get it back.
  gmanning1 Junior Train Controller

Location: Sydney
What I say - there must be an incentive for people that can travel in off-peak time and they're the following:

  • Express services

  • Frequent services



Express services are supplied to address economics for busy peak periods to get more efficiecy out of the network.  For workers going into the city from the suburbs, those who use them are simply taking the most efficient way to get to work. They have little choice. No amount of extra express services in off-peak periods is going to influence these travellers.

Cost of travel

Concidering all public transport is subsidised, this is never going to change. Unless you want a user pays system. Your off-peak express fares will go through the roof to cover costs.

At that current moment there is no incentive for people that can travel in off-peak time to do so!

There is no incentive to pour more money into the system by running services in off-peak which don't pick up every available single paying customer along the way.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
As others have mentioned, there is plenty of provision to run traralgon trains around suburban trains (Melbourne bound, at Dandenong, Westall, Oakleigh and Caulfield though by that point it's virtually useless. Traralgon bound is the same locations. The problem in doing so is it delays the metro service on average 3 minutes, and you'll rarely get metro to prioritise a Vlines punctuality over their own. I reckon about 8% of the trains I catch in a year get run around. I travel every day of the week and usually in off peak. It can even come down to who is traveling on a particular service. There used to be guy high up the PT foodchain who would call a friend at metrol to organise an Oakleigh runaround!
frezno

Why should suburban trains be penalised 3 minutes for the benefit of regional services?  And unless everything punctual (which it often isn't) that would blow out.


What is so special about these services?  They carry fewer passenger and lower cost recovery, and already offer a relatively more competitive journey time to road compared to suburban service.


They really have botched the traralgon line beyond repair with this new 20 minute service to Pakenham and Cranboune. Traralgon Journey times are in some cases 10 minutes longer than current as a result of running more suburban trains. Through the middle of the weekday a 20 minute service is certainly not justified to either Cranbourne or Pakenham, and traralgon line users will suffer. But it's a vote winner for the important people of Melbourne of course.
frezno

This is possibly the dimmest thing I have ever read on this site - it makes melbtrip's stance appear well researched and reasoned by comparison.


Why don't we just say hourly services to the Latrobe Valley are not justified either.  I'm using the same unsubstantiated logic (and I use that term loosely) as you.


Those trains actually matter.
frezno

And I'm sure those suburban trains matter to those who use them.  Your post just screams me, me, me!

I hope all those Pakenham/Cranbourne train users really enjoy their 10 minute service at the expense of workers like me, or people getting to their airport, medical appointments, connecting trains etc. We're screwed and the impending introduction of High Capacity Signalling will only make things worse.
frezno

And they should suffer an inferior service because...?  Must be a very important job you have on the weekend.


What is really needed, is quadding* out to Dandenong (and before you claim otherwise, any further is not justified), to provide fast services to both outer suburban users, and regional services (and again, before you claim otherwise, quadding for the sole use of Vline is not justified either).  With limited stops (Dandenong, Oakleigh, Caulfield, South Yarra) we can have fast services for Vline users, combined with fast, all day suburban express services out to Dandenong, running all stops from there to Cranbourne and Pakenham.  The intermediate stations can be served by higher frequency stopping services originating at Dandenong (demolishing Yarraman as an unwarranted station).  Obviously this will take time, but it is in no way justifiable to restrict the frequency of suburban services just to offer a faster regional service, especially given the aforementioned realities.


{*As an aside, as I've previously detailed, achieving quadding by amplifying to Oakleigh, then constructing a new underground path for 'local' trains via Chadstone to East Malvern, and designating the existing trackwork from Oakleigh to Caulfield as 'express' (removing the three intermediate stations), is far more economically justifiable than attempting to quad straight to Caulfield (which opens up a bucket of worms from there onwards).}
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
People in the outer suburban areas want express services - demand for express is great on the Hurstbridge railway line
melbtrip

Rubbish.  People want a fast journey time, and waiting time is a distinct part of journey time.  Three services an hour at an hour travel time offers a faster journey time (avg. 10+60=70min) than a 50 minute service at only one service an hour (avg. 50+30=80min).  Your choosing to completely ignore this.


All the line needs is removal of pointless stations (Dennis and Darebin), which would drop Gborough-Jolimont travel time to about 33 minutes, not at all uncompetitive with road travel time.  There is a huge degree of validity to the argument that removing services beyond Eltham would also be extremely beneficial, given the trek from Eltham to Hurstbridge accounts for a sizable proportion of the line's operating time, but only a miniscule proportion of the patronage.  Removing it would allow a decent increase to the rail frequency between Eltham and the city, to the locations where the patronage is.  


Given the looping nature of the line, funneling buses from St Andrews/Hurstbridge and Diamond Creek to Gborough would be unlikely to alter travel time to these locations appreciably, whilst actually reducing the overall journey time (since while it is not viable to run trains to Hurstbridge at 20 minute off-peak intervals, it certainly is for buses).  It is easily the best future for the line, the only impediment being selfish, political whining from those beyond Eltham unable to see the benefits in reduced journey time (ie. trains is the bestest types).


No government is going waste political capital on closing railway stations - you can talk all you want about closing stations - it will not happen any-time soon
melbtrip

Current governments are weak, and aren't prepared to implement progressive policies in a multitude of areas because they're only interested in political mileage and give credence to selfish whinging.


People like myself are not going be give up their car travel - if alternative is a stopping all station train service
melbtrip

You again make this unsubstantiated claim that isn't backed up by logic.


it about 84 % of people in Melbourne use cars compare 16% use public transport.
melbtrip

Because most travel isn't into the CBD (where PT modal share is already high), which is exactly what makes your claimed so fundamentally flawed.


Let's see if you have any understanding of this - say you did have your 2 minute joke express to short lines, in what way do you expect those numbers to change?


Express services
melbtrip

Frequent services

Pick one.
  frezno Junior Train Controller

Why should suburban trains be penalised 3 minutes for the benefit of regional services? And unless everything punctual (which it often isn't) that would blow out.

You want to know what's a blow out? It's NOT delaying a suburban trains by 3 minutes and causing the V/Line train to be 25 minutes late. That's a blowout. It's kinda important too, considering people rely on the service to get home, to the airport, to pick up kids, etc. If you delay a suburban service 3 minutes, generally speaking you will make up at least 2 of that with the gaps in the timetable. And you might miss the opening credits of Home & Away.


What is so special about these services? They carry fewer passenger and lower cost recovery, and already offer a relatively more competitive journey time to road compared to suburban service.

What's so special? These trains carry people too, and contrary to your belief, they are not second rate. For whatever reason, be in monetary, necessity or choice, they live far from the city and there's no reason they shouldn't get the same reliable train service those in the city receive. It's simply common sense that a train stopping at 4 stations shouldn't be held up by a train that's stopping at 25.


And I'm sure those suburban trains matter to those who use them. Your post just screams me, me, me!

No, my post screams EAST EAST EAST. Those who travel in peak hour have no idea how bad and unreliable the V/Line service actually is outside those times, how little priority they have. I am simply using my experience to explain that these idiotic decisions over 2 minutes at Oakleigh actually affect other people substantially.


And they should suffer an inferior service because...? Must be a very important job you have on the weekend.

You'd want to believe it.


What is really needed, is quadding* out to Dandenong (and before you claim otherwise, any further is not justified), to provide fast services to both outer suburban users, and regional services (and again, before you claim otherwise, quadding for the sole use of Vline is not justified either). Obviously this will take time, but it is in no way justifiable to restrict the frequency of suburban services just to offer a faster regional service, especially given the aforementioned realities.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you. 3/4 tracks is the ONLY solution, and the areas with the highest service frequency needs to be done. The less regional and metropolitan services have to do with each other the better. But something needs to be done now because next election when they want to up the frequency again, there aint much left to play with in terms of flexibility. I never said restrict, just stop 'improving' until we have the extra tracks to cope with V/Line vs Metro. There is absolutely NO WAY that a 20 minute service is justified to Pakenham or Cranbourne during the day.
No way.
Until you have people standing by the time the trains gets to Dandenong you don't need extra services, and since everyone has a seat the whole way into the city (unless they choose to stand, or there's an event on)they are not justified. Vote winner, that's it. At the expense of Victorians. If people used a shred of intelligence and spread out along the entire length of the train they'd find that the last 2 carriage are empty on Pakenham services to Melbourne while they're standing in the 3rd & 4th.

And there's absolutely no reason to treat regional commuters with contempt, they pay their fare too.
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  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
There isn't a shred of intelligence on the average sheeple getting on and off Metro's trains. I will take this all the way to the grave, especially after seeing every single person cram into the narrow exits of Croydon platform 2 on Friday afternoon peak, touching off on 2 out of the four Myki readers at the two conveniently-placed exits squashed next to each other.

On that note, why did they place a new exit right next to the original exit instead of on the up end near the bus interchange? Both exits span the fourth carriage, so it makes no point whatsoever in using cars 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 if you want Croydon and the result is no different to when the exit didn't even exist; everyone still crowds the tiny brick building in the middle of the platform on their way out. It doesn't even line up with the car park, so it certainly wasn't put there for the commuters who drive to the station.

The two inner Myki readers were used by about 6 people (me included) out of the 100-odd that got off. Whoever is in charge of planning these things needs a shovel to the head.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

As others have mentioned, there is plenty of provision to run traralgon trains around suburban trains (Melbourne bound, at Dandenong, Westall, Oakleigh and Caulfield though by that point it's virtually useless. Traralgon bound is the same locations. The problem in doing so is it delays the metro service on average 3 minutes, and you'll rarely get metro to prioritise a Vlines punctuality over their own. I reckon about 8% of the trains I catch in a year get run around. I travel every day of the week and usually in off peak. It can even come down to who is traveling on a particular service. There used to be guy high up the PT foodchain who would call a friend at metrol to organise an Oakleigh runaround!

They really have botched the traralgon line beyond repair with this new 20 minute service to Pakenham and Cranboune. Traralgon Journey times are in some cases 10 minutes longer than current as a result of running more suburban trains. Through the middle of the weekday a 20 minute service is certainly not justified to either Cranbourne or Pakenham, and traralgon line users will suffer. But it's a vote winner for the important people of Melbourne of course.

However the even bigger issue is the reliability, or lack there of. In the current timetable, on weekends the Traralgon trains need to be on time to 4 minutes at Pakenham else they send the suburban service first. By the time the Vline train arrives in Melbourne it's 25 minutes late. It's virtually impossible to keep a Vline on time to 4 minutes (I have tried several times to explain this to "public transport advocates" and they just brush it off. Only melburnians matter and 'its Vlines problem to be on time'.
All you need is 4 minutes delay across 90+ kms of travel, and a more than 60 minute journey and its all gone. A couple of wheelchair passengers, an unruly person or a few minute late running Traralgon bound service is all it takes. The intelligent thing to do would have been to timetable the Vline train to follow the metro train. It would be a slow trip but more reliable with perhaps a 16 minute headway between the next train rather than 4.

From personal experience this affects me substantially on the weekends as I work in Melbourne, I don't have the luxury of a peak hour commute. Those trains actually matter.
So as it stands, I often have to come in to work an hour early on the weekends because I can't risk being 25 minutes late. This will now be extended to all 7 days of the week. PTV and the government really do not care about regional east commuters, someone down here must have really pissed someone off. I hope all those Pakenham/Cranbourne train users really enjoy their 10 minute service at the expense of workers like me, or people getting to their airport, medical appointments, connecting trains etc. We're screwed and the impending introduction of High Capacity Signalling will only make things worse.
frezno

Signal diagram indicates un believably that  run through at Westall can only be done in the Down direction .  This botched tracklayout is an absolute disgarce  . Announced as a much vaunted turn back for a split level tt that has never been introduced, and supposed to be 2kms of triple track allowing run throughs in both directions .  Continually fiddled with an end result after  millions spent, no short distance Westall tarins operating after2 years, and VLP run through is only possible in a Down direction . ws

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