Wolgan Valley Wilderness Railway

 
  OldSteamer Locomotive Fireman

Location: Brisbane
x

Sponsored advertisement

  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
"We're going to keep it because it's ours, so there." Too bad if it rusts itself to a slow death and becomes usefull to nobody.
Where the hell is Oroville anyway?
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
I'd never even heard of the Wolgan Valley Wilderness Railway until a few days ago (and I'm a local).  What form is this group in and what does / did it actually intend to do?
  4206 Chief Commissioner

Location: Dorrigo yard
"We're going to keep it bacause it's ours, so there." Too bad if it rusts itself to a slow death and becomes usefull to nobody.
Where the hell is Oroville anyway?
Valvegear

Oroville is in California
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I'd never even heard of the Wolgan Valley Wilderness Railway until a few days ago (and I'm a local). What form is this group in and what does / did it actually intend to do?
TheFish

This is all I could find:
https://www.facebook.com/WolganValleyRailway/info
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
I could understand the desire not to sell the loco but it would have been good to have that part of history in Lithgow.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Seems that this is the Locomotive in question:

http://www.shaylocomotives.com/surviving/3169surv.jpg
  TomBTR Chief Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
Well I will say this for this group of dreamers, that the use of the English language on their FB page is very good. This is in total contrast to the "spiritofthehunter" mob.

I can see numerous practical and legal issues with reopening the whole line, but if they open the section from Newnes Junction north towards the junction with the road up from State Mine Gully, either as a railway or just as a walking route, that would be great. This part of the line has been lost, unlike the rest of the line which is about half road and half walking track.

I guess that the Zigzag crowd would not be delighted if someone were to open another steam railway close by. On the other hand the new project could start at Newnes and work back up the hill. However it would soon encounter the walking route, the national park (including the glowworms) and then the road.

Before writing off as crazy the idea of doing anything expensive in the Wolgan, few would have predicted that Emirates would build an exclusive "six-star" resort down there, but they did.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Well I will say this for this group of dreamers, that the use of the English language on their FB page is very good. This is in total contrast to the "spiritofthehunter" mob.

I can see numerous practical and legal issues with reopening the whole line, but if they open the section from Newnes Junction north towards the junction with the road up from State Mine Gully, either as a railway or just as a walking route, that would be great. This part of the line has been lost, unlike the rest of the line which is about half road and half walking track.

I guess that the Zigzag crowd would not be delighted if someone were to open another steam railway close by. On the other hand the new project could start at Newnes and work back up the hill. However it would soon encounter the walking route, the national park (including the glowworms) and then the road.

Before writing off as crazy the idea of doing anything expensive in the Wolgan, few would have predicted that Emirates would build an exclusive "six-star" resort down there, but they did.
TomBTR

The original C626 Alco and ore cars used to construct and open the first heavy haul iron ore railroad in WA came from the Oreville Dam Project so I guess there is some slight Oz association with that town.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I could understand the desire not to sell the loco but it would have been good to have that part of history in Lithgow.
GeoffreyHansen

You learn something every day. I was under the impression that all the 3 truck Shays used at Newnes were cut up during WW2 for much needed scrap. It is very frustrating to iearn one lasted to at least 1955. So close, yet so far away. These were big Shays too.
  georges Train Controller

I guess that the Zigzag crowd would not be delighted if someone were to open another steam railway close by.
TomBTR

ZigZag Railway home page, http://www.zigzagrailway.com.au/, states 'Incorporating Wolgan Valley Railway'. Not exactly 'Wolgan Valley Wilderness Railway'. Maybe a close relative?

Some photos of Wolgan Shays here:
http://users.tpg.com.au/newnes/r/loco.htm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/national_library_of_australia_commons/9448418014/in/photostream/?rb=1
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

You learn something every day. I was under the impression that all the 3 truck Shays used at Newnes were cut up during WW2 for much needed scrap. It is very frustrating to iearn one lasted to at least 1955. So close, yet so far away. These were big Shays too.
nswtrains

Those that survived until the mid 1950s had been very heavily "worked over" by that time. There are photos in the book on the Wolgan Valley line published by NSWRTM a few years back. By that point in time, cutting up was more of a mercy killing than anything else.

There was no serious interest in any preservation in the mid 1950s or earlier for any railway stock sadly.

Regards,

Craig W
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
The Wolgan Valley Wilderness Railway is a State Mine initiative.

This project is in no way associated with Zig Zag Railway.
  wally-wowser1 Train Controller

Location: overlooking the Mt vic washaway on Soldiers Pinch
There was a idea  of ZZ to run to Clarence Platform [present one ] Then build on the original formation back down to Newness  Works.  The acquisition of the timber pedestrian bridge which is sitting in sections at Newnes jctn was to be used to cross  from the up & down platforms . The hold up apart from the Lithgow fires recently was Clarence Colliery access road when the old formation was removed for fill elsewhere . Looks like there is now  2 players who want to rebuild this very scenic railway, there was also mention of Co operation between  the 2 groups  for the use of the State Mine rail motor set to travel on the present main track  to & from Lithgow & Clarence, change trains & then proceed  back to  bottom points & transfer  back to Lithgow. Interesting times ahead.

 Wally.
  M636C Minister for Railways

The original C628 Alco and ore cars used to construct and open the first heavy haul iron ore railroad in WA came from the Oroville Dam Project so I guess there is some slight Oz association with that town.
nswtrains

Not Quite....

Oroville Dam Constructors used among the first U25C locomotives, painted dark green with gold lining. They went to the Louisville and Nashville on completion of the dam.

The wagons, about 150 of them, some being replacements of original cars damaged, were bought by BHP and used by Mt Newman Mining, along with the car dumper used at the dam site. Mt Newman Mining was the third Pilbara iron ore operator after Goldsworthy and Hamersley Iron.

The car dumper in Nelson Point unloaded all of Mt Newman's ore until 1976 when a new triple dumper was installed, and it lasted until about 2006 when it was replaced by a new dumper in the same location (by which time BHP Billiton had three other dumpers in Port Hedland, including one on Finucane Island, the former Goldsworthy terminal which had originally used hopper cars.)

Wolgan Valley would be better to restore a small conventional locomotive like those used in the line's contruction, and get trains operating before trying to obtain a Shay. It might be better to build a new Shay from scratch rather than try to repair one from outdoor display.

M636C
  TomBTR Chief Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
Without going back to check my sources, I recall reading a paper by Deane in the Sydney University engineering library in which he describes the design and construction management of the railway. Although he specified Shay locomotives as the best available at the time of order, he commented that had Garratts been available they would have been a better choice. The Garratt patent was issued in 1907 so it was just too late for the Wolgan.

I forget if Deane went into detail about the advantages of the Garratt over the Shay design but it would seem to me that one would have to be that on relatively flat track a Garratt can run at moderate or high speed whereas a Shay remains limited to a slow speed by its fixed gearing.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

There was a idea of ZZ to run to Clarence Platform [present one ] Then build on the original formation back down to Newness Works. The acquisition of the timber pedestrian bridge which is sitting in sections at Newnes jctn was to be used to cross from the up & down platforms . The hold up apart from the Lithgow fires recently was Clarence Colliery access road when the old formation was removed for fill elsewhere . Looks like there is now 2 players who want to rebuild this very scenic railway, there was also mention of Co operation between the 2 groups for the use of the State Mine rail motor set to travel on the present main track to & from Lithgow & Clarence, change trains & then proceed back to bottom points & transfer back to Lithgow. Interesting times ahead.

Wally.
wally-wowser1

I thought the dispute with Clarence Colliery had been resolved with the colliery to supply a bridge to fill in the gap. However, I suppose the bush fires will put that on the back burner for a while. Been down to the end as it stood then as the driver of the Qld rail car set kindly drove us down to the end because we had in tow a very good looking female cousin visiting us from Europe at the time. Certainly hope it eventually happens.
  georges Train Controller

Without going back to check my sources, I recall reading a paper by Deane in the Sydney University engineering library in which he describes the design and construction management of the railway. Although he specified Shay locomotives as the best available at the time of order, he commented that had Garratts been available they would have been a better choice. The Garratt patent was issued in 1907 so it was just too late for the Wolgan.

I forget if Deane went into detail about the advantages of the Garratt over the Shay design but it would seem to me that one would have to be that on relatively flat track a Garratt can run at moderate or high speed whereas a Shay remains limited to a slow speed by its fixed gearing.
TomBTR

The Powerhouse Museum's page on the Wolgan Valley Railway, http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/imageservices/2010/03/the-wolgan-valley-railway/, states that Deane presented his paper to the university's Engineering Society in 1910. The paper was later published by ARHS in 1979, reprinted 1984. The booklet appears to be available for purchase on line.

Henry Deane was a distinguished railway engineer. He was consultant to the Commonwealth Oil Corporation Ltd and was responsible for the construction of its railway from Newnes to Clarence. In 1891 he had succeeded John Whitton, builder of the Zig Zag, and first engineer-in-chief of railway construction in NSW. Deane's resume is perhaps second only to Whitton's among Australian railway construction engineers. This site, http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/deane-henry-5931, has a short biography of him.

YouTube has a video of WVR at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_SdlP43aWk. The video combines contemporary and historic still photographs and illustrations, some showing Shays operating in the USA.

A commercial video of the WVR is being released later this year: http://www.bushexplorers.com.au/announcements/filming-the-shay-ghosts-of-the-wolgan-valley-railway
  br30453 Chief Train Controller

Without going back to check my sources, I recall reading a paper by Deane in the Sydney University engineering library in which he describes the design and construction management of the railway. Although he specified Shay locomotives as the best available at the time of order, he commented that had Garratts been available they would have been a better choice. The Garratt patent was issued in 1907 so it was just too late for the Wolgan.

I forget if Deane went into detail about the advantages of the Garratt over the Shay design but it would seem to me that one would have to be that on relatively flat track a Garratt can run at moderate or high speed whereas a Shay remains limited to a slow speed by its fixed gearing.
TomBTR

Deane's paper can be found at:

http://openjournals.library.usyd.edu.au/index.php/SUES/article/view/2142
  TomBTR Chief Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
Thanks for the reference. It is good to see that this work is now more easily available to everyone. When I found the paper in the library, the papers of the Sydney University Engineering Society were filed with those of the Sydney University Engineering Undergraduates Association (who were mainly interested in inter-faculty sports, second-hand book trading and competitive beer drinking) rather than filed with those of the Institution of Engineers, Australia with which it later merged.

On re-reading I find that I was wrong about the timing, it seems that Garratt locomotives were offered to the railway but were too expensive at the time.

On a personal note, I remember as child being taken to afternoon tea with a Mr Cardew, the former NSWGR CME who explained how a steam locomotive, unlike other types of railway or stationary engines, was a self regulating closed-loop system. He also told of receiving pen and ink sketches of his father suspended from a rope surveying the route of the Wolgan Valley line. Cardew senior is mentioned as a surveyor early in the Deane paper.
  mattb27j Chief Commissioner

Location: Berowra
https://www.facebook.com/WolganValleyRailway

The Eskbank Locomotive Depot & Museum has concluded final arrangements to purchase a Lima 70 Ton 3 truck shay similar to those that operated on the Wolgan Valley Railway at the turn of the last century.

The hunt to secure a shay locomotive begun almost 5 years ago and has finally concluded with the acquisition of a shay located in California. The locomotive built in 1910 will become the centre piece of an operational display dedicated to the Commonwealth Oil Corporation which built the massive oil shale works at Newnes and the 53 kilometre railway that connected it to the worldwide markets.

Further details will be released in coming weeks on how people can assist the company to restore what will become Australia's only standard gauge shay locomotive.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
Good news!
  Spinner5711 Train Controller

https://www.facebook.com/WolganValleyRailway

The Eskbank Locomotive Depot & Museum has concluded final arrangements to purchase a Lima 70 Ton 3 truck shay similar to those that operated on the Wolgan Valley Railway at the turn of the last century.

The hunt to secure a shay locomotive begun almost 5 years ago and has finally concluded with the acquisition of a shay located in California. The locomotive built in 1910 will become the centre piece of an operational display dedicated to the Commonwealth Oil Corporation which built the massive oil shale works at Newnes and the 53 kilometre railway that connected it to the worldwide markets.

Further details will be released in coming weeks on how people can assist the company to restore what will become Australia's only standard gauge shay locomotive.
mattb27j

Presumably it is this one.

http://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/lima2399/sn-2366.htm

It fits all of the clues, and its entry shows that it is to be #5.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: br30453, CraigW, TomBTR, troublegrub, wurx

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.