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      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    http://www.railpage.com.au/locos/class/46/


    From an historical viewpoint the 700 Class a rumoured to have worked the Indian Pacific between Port Pirie and Broken Hill.

    Can anyone explain why these locomotives only worked this route for the IP and not through to Adelaide?
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 13:28

    Last edited by bevans on 12 Jul 2014 13:29; edited 2 times in total

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      monday Chief Commissioner

    Because prior to 1982 it was broad gauge to Port Pirie from Adelaide, and broad gauge to Peterborough too.  There was no standard gauge in Adelaide prior to that time.

    The IP never came near Adelaide until Keswick terminal was finished in / around 1984/1985 - it ran Sydney - Broken Hill - Peterborough - Port Pirie - Port Augusta - Kalgoorlie - Perth prior to that.

    ... and in fact, the IP may have not come near Adelaide straight away either, as i suspect AN would have run a bluebird connector service to Port Pirie for a while - at least to 1985/86 i'd guess.
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 14:06
      freightgate Minister for Railways

    Location: Albury, New South Wales
    How many services ran from Adelaide to Port Pirie return per day ?

    Did bluebirds also run to Peterborough ?
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 16:11
      monday Chief Commissioner

    Not sure about timetables of services, but you'd think there'd be one each way, each day at least.  If were guessing, id say the most it would have been would of comprised a morning and evening service each way, each day.

    Yes, Peterborough was both bluebird and / or loco hauled services using either 830's, 900's or 930's with a single carriage or two with a CGP brake van either side.  Not sure about its frequency.
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 16:25
      rosterclerk Station Staff

    On the Port Pirie line Monday to Saturday there were three services a day - 8.05am (Bluebirds), 12.30pm later 12.50pm (loco hauled) and 6.05pm (Bluebirds). On Sunday there were two services - the 12.30 pm and 6.05 pm.

    The Peterborough line had an evening service that ran  seven days a week at 5.00pm from memory and 11.00am on Indian Pacific days. These were generally bluebirds.
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 16:29
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Because prior to 1982 it was broad gauge to Port Pirie from Adelaide, and broad gauge to Peterborough too. There was no standard gauge in Adelaide prior to that time.

    The IP never came near Adelaide until Keswick terminal was finished in / around 1984/1985 - it ran Sydney - Broken Hill - Peterborough - Port Pirie - Port Augusta - Kalgoorlie - Perth prior to that.

    ... and in fact, the IP may have not come near Adelaide straight away either, as i suspect AN would have run a bluebird connector service to Port Pirie for a while - at least to 1985/86 i'd guess.
    monday


    Thanks for your response Monday and the other contributors.

    From your response above I imagine the 700 came off at Broken Hill and a NSW based locomotive would take the train to Sydney and Vice Versa for the Sydney to Perth services?
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 16:34
      Pressman Spirit of the Vine

    Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
    Thanks for your response Monday and the other contributors.

    From your response above I imagine the 700 came off at Broken Hill and a NSW based locomotive would take the train to Sydney and Vice Versa for the Sydney to Perth services?
    "bevans"

    In the days of old NSWGR hauled the IP Sydney to Broken Hill, then SAR to Port Pirie, then CR to Kalgoorlie then WAGR to Perth.
    In the SAR section power was usually of the 700 or 600 class (I believe the inaugural IP had 2 x 600's )
    CR power would have been one or two GM's, WAGR usually used an L class.
    I remember in 1988 I travelled Adelaide to Brisbane on the IP and Brisbane Limited. Motive power was 2 x CL Adelaide to Parkes, 442? to Lithgow and 85 class electric to Sydney
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 16:46

    Last edited by Pressman on 12 Jul 2014 16:57; edited 1 time in total
      xdford Chief Train Controller

    ...


    From an historical viewpoint the 700 Class a rumoured to have worked the Indian Pacific between Port Pirie and Broken Hill.

    Can anyone explain why these locomotives only worked this route for the IP and not through to Adelaide?
    bevans

    Nothing Rumoured... 700's were quite frequent rostered power on the IP between late 71 when they were introduced and 1981-2 or so before the Standard Gauge went to Adelaide.

    As I remember, Bluebirds did an initial connection from Keswick to Pt Pirie, then a motive power reshuffle put all the 700's on BG, although strangely enough I have seen pictures of 930's on the IP ... just don't know whether they worked through to Adelaide. With the haulage of the IP being given to ANR with CLP's at the front then NR's from National Rail, I would think the time line would be such that 700's would have been relegated by virtue of being owned by G&W.

    I stand to be corrected re the time line but as I was not a resident of SA at the time, it was only limited to my recollection of Catchpoints and what I actually saw when visiting,

    Cheers

    Trevor
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 18:58
      monday Chief Commissioner

    Working back in time (for at least the SAR / CR / AN portions of its journey), the following is a rough guide (theoretically anything could have turned up, and no doubt it probably has at one time or another).

    Present to Mid 1997 - NR's
    1997 - 1993 - CLP's
    1993 -1990 - Mostly ELs / DL's, although CL's have been seen
    1990 -1986 - Mixture of GM's (Mostly), CL's and DL's, 600's and 700's.
    Pre 1986 - Mostly GM's and 600's.

    To go back further in time, you'd probably need to consult with those around and whatever pictures / editions of the Recorder / Catch Point exist.
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 19:33
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    I remember reading several old Catch Point issues that showed 930's haul the IP in the late 80's, one had quad 930's.
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 20:30
      duttonbay Minister for Railways

    The little engines sometimes got a run too. In the early days (September 1970, so not long after the SG line between Broken Hill and Port Pirie was opened, I chased 606/847 on the east-bound IP.  At Gladstone this train crossed its westbound  counterpoint behind a single 600.

    [img]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/duttonbay/Odd%20Photos/0988606-847arrGladstonee-bIndianPacific01Sep70_zps6ec548ae.jpg[/img]
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 20:42
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    On the topic of 700's, I believe 704 will be used as a training centre for GWA at Islington workshops.

    On the standard gauge, I've seen 701 & 703 lead trains on the mainline (grainys), but haven't seen 705 lead. Plus out of all the grain train combos I've seen north of Adelaide, I've never seen one hauled by double 700's (without any other types assisting) since I started doing regular train spotting in late 2012. Are they not trustworthy to run by themselves, hence why 704 always had at least one 830 assisting on the Stonie?
    Posted: 12 Jul 2014 22:46

    Last edited by greasyrhys on 12 Jul 2014 22:53; edited 1 time in total
      wat700 Junior Train Controller

    Location: Richmond, NSW
    Johnny's Pages has some links to various IP lash ups in the 80s. A few examples below.

    A 700 on the IP at Keswick Terminal (credited to Wayne on the site):

    http://www.johnnyspages.com/classic_pictures_menu_files/classic_wayne's_pictures_2_files/diesels/wayne_2_diesels.jpg



    Triple 830s on the IP (credited to Trevor on the site):

    http://www.johnnyspages.com/classic_pictures_menu_files/classic_trevors_pictures_files/northern/northern_11_tn-2213_868_870_840_up_ip_two_wells_loop_22-10-1988.jpg



    A GM and two 830s on the IP (credited to Trevor on the site):

    http://www.johnnyspages.com/classic_pictures_menu_files/classic_trevors_pictures_files/northern/northern_22_tn-1213_gm1_874_869_up_ip_greenfields_06-11-1988.jpg

    Posted: 13 Jul 2014 17:18

    Last edited by wat700 on 13 Jul 2014 18:00; edited 1 time in total
      freightgate Minister for Railways

    Location: Albury, New South Wales
    Did the 930's lead the IP on SG only before 1985 ?
    Posted: 13 Jul 2014 18:30
      Pressman Spirit of the Vine

    Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
    Did the 930's lead the IP on SG only before 1985 ?
    "freightgate"

    I just checked comrails site http://www.comrails.com/sar_locos/r_930.html,
    It only shows two 930's transferred to SG 958 transferred May '87 and 961 transferred May '96
    Posted: 13 Jul 2014 19:25
      DrSmith Train Controller

    What-ever was available out of Broken Hill would bring the IP to Adelaide before dedicated running of the CLPs through to Sydney was the norm including rarely triple 830s. We even sent a single 830 out to Pt Augusta one evening on a "half" IP consist due to delays of stock coming to Adelaide. The little 830 lost some time but struggled on to get the job done.
    Posted: 13 Jul 2014 21:28
      bingley hall Minister for Railways

    Location: Last train to Skaville
    I just checked comrails site http://www.comrails.com/sar_locos/r_930.html,
    It only shows two 930's transferred to SG 958 transferred May '87 and 961 transferred May '96
    Pressman

    Comrails doesn't have everything recorded - there were definitely more than two 930s that worked on SG.

    The 930s were not frequent performers on the IP between Adelaide and BH post SG, but neither were they rare.
    Posted: 13 Jul 2014 22:11
      Pressman Spirit of the Vine

    Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
    Comrails doesn't have everything recorded - there were definitely more than two 930s that worked on SG.

    The 930s were not frequent performers on the IP between Adelaide and BH post SG, but neither were they rare.
    "bingley hall"


    I agree with you Bing, I remember seeing pics of a few 930's on SG (but can't recall numbers )
    Posted: 13 Jul 2014 22:14
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    701 was given a wash &, surprisingly, given the name 'Tailem Bend'.
    Posted: 17 Jul 2014 21:41
      BL27 Locomotive Fireman

    I agree with you Bing, I remember seeing pics of a few 930's on SG (but can't recall numbers )
    Pressman


    I can recall 936 spending a large chunk of the last part of its life on standard gauge,

    Possibly 963 and or 966 also but on shorter stints,
    Posted: 17 Jul 2014 23:57
      duttonbay Minister for Railways

    I can recall 936 spending a large chunk of the last part of its life on standard gauge,

    Possibly 963 and or 966 also but on shorter stints,
    "BL27"

    I have photos of 936 and 964 at Broken Hill, and 958 at Whyalla
    Posted: 18 Jul 2014 11:39

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