New Metro timetables from July 27

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The two inner Myki readers were used by about 6 people (me included) out of the 100-odd that got off. Whoever is in charge of planning these things needs a shovel to the head.
Heihachi_73

Removing Zone 2 fares (whenever that happens) should help a lot as presumably people in the metro area won't need to touch off any longer and face those silly queues at every peak hour.

Sponsored advertisement

  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Signal diagram indicates un believably that run through at Westall can only be done in the Down direction . This botched tracklayout is an absolute disgarce . Announced as a much vaunted turn back for a split level tt that has never been introduced, and supposed to be 2kms of triple track allowing run throughs in both directions . Continually fiddled with an end result after millions spent, no short distance Westall tarins operating after2 years, and VLP run through is only possible in a Down direction . ws
kuldalai

That's very sad to hear, I recall when it was announced it seemed like a really good idea; obviously the execution was botched.

That whole line/group is bumping up against some serious capacity constraints - that's the summary of the last page or so. Improvements directed at squeezing more trains onto it will probably end up affecting the reliability of the service (including V/line). I'm not sure that they should have pressed ahead with that substantially increased frequency BEFORE they did grade separations?

Melbourne is experiencing some serious infrastructure bottle-necks - that's the crux of the problem. And there's no serious plans to address it; I just don't see how East-West is going to solve anything other than a small amount of these problems and none of the other rail improvements is even funded yet.
  frezno Junior Train Controller

Signal diagram indicates un believably that run through at Westall can only be done in the Down direction . This botched tracklayout is an absolute disgarce . Announced as a much vaunted turn back for a split level tt that has never been introduced, and supposed to be 2kms of triple track allowing run throughs in both directions . Continually fiddled with an end result after millions spent, no short distance Westall tarins operating after2 years, and VLP run through is only possible in a Down direction . ws
kuldalai

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe with the commissioning of the Springvale Road Grade Separation a bypass track is now in use? Theoretically a V/line train could be signalled from Springvale through the points along the Dandenong bound track in the Melbourne direction, overtake a metro service sitting in the platform at Westall and come out in front of it through the points on the other side of Westall. There would have to be no conflicting moves with Pakenham/Cranbourne bound trains for this to happen and again, it's going to delay the service to Melbourne so it wouldn't happen under normal circumstances. But it really shows what morons think these ideas up. Might be a good idea in theory to have a location that express trains can overtake, but make it more than one station so that it is actually feasible.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe with the commissioning of the Springvale Road Grade Separation a bypass track is now in use? Theoretically a V/line train could be signalled from Springvale through the points along the Dandenong bound track in the Melbourne direction, overtake a metro service sitting in the platform at Westall and come out in front of it through the points on the other side of Westall. There would have to be no conflicting moves with Pakenham/Cranbourne bound trains for this to happen and again, it's going to delay the service to Melbourne so it wouldn't happen under normal circumstances. But it really shows what morons think these ideas up. Might be a good idea in theory to have a location that express trains can overtake, but make it more than one station so that it is actually feasible.
frezno

It's possible but not likely.  There is a cross over on the upside of the Springvale Road bridge, but the points are not high-speed and I think they would be mainly used to direct trains into the Westall Sidings track.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
You want to know what's a blow out? It's NOT delaying a suburban trains by 3 minutes and causing the V/Line train to be 25 minutes late. That's a blowout. It's kinda important too, considering people rely on the service to get home, to the airport, to pick up kids, etc. If you delay a suburban service 3 minutes, generally speaking you will make up at least 2 of that with the gaps in the timetable. And you might miss the opening credits of Home & Away.
frezno

And the people on the suburban train don't have time considerations either?


I already gave you the figures regarding the speed of outer suburban Pakenham services as a fraction of road journey time compared with the similar measurement for Traralgon. The outer suburban services are already proportionally far slower than Traralgon services and you want to slow them down further? The system is far too unreliable anyway for such concepts to work.


What's so special? These trains carry people too, and contrary to your belief, they are not second rate. For whatever reason, be in monetary, necessity or choice, they live far from the city and there's no reason they shouldn't get the same reliable train service those in the city receive. It's simply common sense that a train stopping at 4 stations shouldn't be held up by a train that's stopping at 25.
frezno

You haven't provided an argument. Why should suburban travellers be penalised when their services are already proportionally offering a far longer travel time. Why should this gap be even further widened? Why is someone sitting just beyond Pakenham in the Vline network be entitled to priority over suburban passngers? Why is their time so much more important?


Why should suburban trains have their timetables further lengthened for the benefit of Vline users? How is routinely stopping (ie. timetabled crosses) to allow Vline services to pass have any hope of working on a rail system with such low punctuality?


No, my post screams EAST EAST EAST. Those who travel in peak hour have no idea how bad and unreliable the V/Line service actually is outside those times, how little priority they have. I am simply using my experience to explain that these idiotic decisions over 2 minutes at Oakleigh actually affect other people substantially.
frezno

Again, they have no right to priority. What is so special about Vline users that demands them priority?


They on balance pay less, are subsidised to a greater extent, carry less passengers, and already have a superior ratio of journey time versus road.


3/4 tracks is the ONLY solution
frezno

Four tracks is the only solution.


ut something needs to be done now because next election when they want to up the frequency again, there aint much left to play with in terms of flexibility. I never said restrict, just stop 'improving' until we have the extra tracks to cope with V/Line vs Metro. There is absolutely NO WAY that a 20 minute service is justified to Pakenham or Cranbourne during the day.
frezno

This is completely unqualified garbage.


I could make up the same ill informed nonsense and say Vline services should only run once every two hours off peak. How can you possibly justify making a horrid suburban service with no off-peak express services even worse by restricting the frequency? And for what? So a few precious Vline users can get a clear run into the city? Your argument has no merit, it's just complete and utter selfishness, plain and simple.



And there's absolutely no reason to treat regional commuters with contempt, they pay their fare too.
frezno

A greatly subsidised fare, and something that does not entitle them to first class treatment over suburban users.
  frezno Junior Train Controller

Ah, ZH836301, you make me laugh. You keep harping on about how V/line gets a much better service in regards to time traveling vs car, this just makes me LOL.

If V/line travel times are so superior, why is it then that I can drive from Traralgon to Flinders Street in 1 hour and 50 minutes, but it takes me 2 hours 20+ minutes to complete the same journey on "Regional Fast Rail"? (For however many millions of dollars was spent on RFR, you would think you would see something for it.) Currently, most trains I catch the journey takes 2 hours 20 mins. Some trains have blown out to 2hrs 34 in the new timetable. Some people have a choice and in an ever increasing time poor world - why would some schmuck sit on a train for 30+ minutes longer to do what they need to do than the comfort, ease and speed of their own car?

It takes 60 minutes just to get from Pakenham to the City on V/line, a journey that takes 40 minutes in the car. (And by the way, arent we supposed to be discouraging people from taking their cars?) Yeah it takes a Pakenham train more like 70-80 minutes, but they are stopping all stations via the loop. A V/line stops at 5 stations and takes nearly as long. If that doesn't seem absolutely absurd to you, I want some of what you're having. Clearly you live in a world where unicorns fart rainbows
  ChoooChoo Chief Train Controller

What times are the new peak hour services? I tried comparing both the current and proposed timetable and couldn't identify it, because most services have had their times changed by 2-4 minutes making it difficult to see.

In addition, the 7:47 from Pakenham is no longer a super express, it used to skip around 11 stations now just 6 or so.
  Plan B Junior Train Controller

I was looking for two new morning peak services advertised for the Glen Waverley line early last year.  One was found to be the result of evening out all the services to constant seven-minute gaps causing an extra service in the count.  The other service was one that started its run to Flinders Street at Burnley!

Obviously a train being driven out of the Burnley yards was made operational for three stations and deemed to be a new service for the Glen Waverley line.

Maybe there is a new service to Flinders Street starting at Caulfield???
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

I was looking for two new morning peak services advertised for the Glen Waverley line early last year. One was found to be the result of evening out all the services to constant seven-minute gaps causing an extra service in the count. The other service was one that started its run to Flinders Street at Burnley!

Obviously a train being driven out of the Burnley yards was made operational for three stations and deemed to be a new service for the Glen Waverley line.

Maybe there is a new service to Flinders Street starting at Caulfield???
Plan B

I believe there's a new service appearing in next month's update. A train docks up out of North Melbourne siding and runs as a revenue service from North Melbourne to Flinders St.
Metro will probably claim it's an additional service from Williamstown & Werribee & Sunbury & Craigieburn & Upfield.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Cool story bro.

If V/line travel times are so superior, why is it then that I can drive from Traralgon to Flinders Street in 1 hour and 50 minutes, but it takes me 2 hours 20+ minutes to complete the same journey on "Regional Fast Rail"? (For however many millions of dollars was spent on RFR, you would think you would see something for it.) Currently, most trains I catch the journey takes 2 hours 20 mins. Some trains have blown out to 2hrs 34 in the new timetable. Some people have a choice and in an ever increasing time poor world - why would some schmuck sit on a train for 30+ minutes longer to do what they need to do than the comfort, ease and speed of their own car?
frezno

Traralgon to Flinders St - car 1h46min, rail 2h4min: ratio 85%


Pakenham to Flinders St - car 45min, rail 1hr10min: ratio 64%


Berwick to Flinders St - car 35min, rail 56min: ratio 63%


The off peak Pakenham to city Vline travel time is 51 minutes, which is 73% of the Metro travel time.


Clearly Pakenham has the inferior service - how can you ignore the facts?  Yet you want to make it even worse?
  frezno Junior Train Controller

Closer to 2 hours 24 mins than 2 hours 4 mins, bro.

"The off peak Pakenham to city Vline travel time is 51 minutes, which is 73% of the Metro travel time."
What timetable are you looking at? Pakenham to Southern Cross is genetally 58-65 minutes off peak. Not 51. Some are scheduled to take a ridiculous 11 mins FSS - SCS.

Regardless of what I want, we are not making the Pakenham service worse, are we? We're making the Traralgon service worse. All you've done is boast about how much better people from Pakenham are than people from the Latrobe Valley. Id love for you to give me one good reason why someone who has paid $30 for a return ticket to Melbourne (more like $60 if they're coming from Bairnsdale) doesn't deserve to get the service that they paid for? And if you think they are getting it, take a good hard look at the last 5+ years of punctuality results on the Gippsland line.
  mrmoopt Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
I don't get this argument about people getting their journey times extended in Zn2/3+ areas.

If you need to commute and need the time savings, the money spent on rent living in an inner city suburb is worth the money instead of saving it on repayments on cheap plots of land that they can buy in outer suburban areas. You can't have your cake and eat it too?
  X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
I don't get this argument about people getting their journey times extended in Zn2/3+ areas.

If you need to commute and need the time savings, the money spent on rent living in an inner city suburb is worth the money instead of saving it on repayments on cheap plots of land that they can buy in outer suburban areas. You can't have your cake and eat it too?
calt

I think i'm off topic now but
if you hate the travel times DON'T Buy a house there
in the north, west, and south it is cheap for an 1 bed apartment
so what is the fuss Smile
  Westernport Assistant Commissioner

Location: Not In Service
I think i'm off topic now but
if you hate the travel times DON'T Buy a house there
in the north, west, and south it is cheap for an 1 bed apartment
so what is the fuss Smile
X'Trapolis-904M

What's the fuss? Well buying a 1 bedroom apartment is hardly practical when you've got a wife and three kids under the age of ten. Rolling Eyes

Plus the affordability of housing in the inner areas is significantly more difficult than those out on the fringes of the city.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Closer to 2 hours 24 mins than 2 hours 4 mins, bro.

"The off peak Pakenham to city Vline travel time is 51 minutes, which is 73% of the Metro travel time."
What timetable are you looking at? Pakenham to Southern Cross is genetally 58-65 minutes off peak. Not 51. Some are scheduled to take a ridiculous 11 mins FSS - SCS.
frezno

Midday, weekday.  I think that's as fair a choice of off peak as any.  As clearly stated, comparisons road vs rail to Flinders St.

Regardless of what I want, we are not making the Pakenham service worse, are we? We're making the Traralgon service worse. All you've done is boast about how much better people from Pakenham are than people from the Latrobe Valley. Id love for you to give me one good reason why someone who has paid $30 for a return ticket to Melbourne (more like $60 if they're coming from Bairnsdale) doesn't deserve to get the service that they paid for? And if you think they are getting it, take a good hard look at the last 5+ years of punctuality results on the Gippsland line.
frezno

You can try turning it into city versus country bsfest as much as you want, but the underlying fact is, the suburban services carry far more people.

And you pay more for a ticket because you travel further.  That does not entitle you to an expectation of priority over suburban services.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Isn't the issue here more to do with the punctuality of the Gippsland service than anything else?
  ChoooChoo Chief Train Controller

So what's the general consensus on the outcome of the new timetable?

Has anybody noticed if boom gates are down for significantly longer/more often?

Are loads more evenly spread amongst services?

Are some services too empty? Still too full?
  gxh Junior Train Controller

Location: SE suburbs
Perhaps not the biggest issue around, but it may be worth noting that there's a missed opportunity with the new timetables, now that there's a 10 minute frequency from Dandenong as well as on the Frankston line.
During weekday mornings, after the am peak until lunchtime, the expresses from the Pakenham/Cranbourne lines heading to the loop arrive at Richmond at exactly the same time as the trains from Frankston heading to Flinders Street. If things are all on time, this makes a transfer impossible. However, if the express arrived a couple of minutes later, then Frankston line passengers would have a more reliable connection to a loop train (instead of waiting variable periods for a Box Hill group train).
This wouldn't prejudice the connection at Caulfield for passengers from Pakenham/Cranbourne trains heading to a MATH station. In fact, as it would mean a 4 minute wait instead of 6 for the stopping train, it might even be regarded as better,
In theory, passengers from the Frankston train can transfer to the expresses at Caulfield, but there's a long ramp there (the steps at Richmond are quicker for many people), and in addition, changing at Richmond provides the back-up of a Box Hill group train if there's a problem with the Pakenham/Cranbourne line train. And, of course, this option isn't available for passengers from MATH stations.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Perhaps not the biggest issue around, but it may be worth noting that there's a missed opportunity with the new timetables, now that there's a 10 minute frequency from Dandenong as well as on the Frankston line.
During weekday mornings, after the am peak until lunchtime, the expresses from the Pakenham/Cranbourne lines heading to the loop arrive at Richmond at exactly the same time as the trains from Frankston heading to Flinders Street. If things are all on time, this makes a transfer impossible. However, if the express arrived a couple of minutes later, then Frankston line passengers would have a more reliable connection to a loop train (instead of waiting variable periods for a Box Hill group train).
This wouldn't prejudice the connection at Caulfield for passengers from Pakenham/Cranbourne trains heading to a MATH station. In fact, as it would mean a 4 minute wait instead of 6 for the stopping train, it might even be regarded as better,
In theory, passengers from the Frankston train can transfer to the expresses at Caulfield, but there's a long ramp there (the steps at Richmond are quicker for many people), and in addition, changing at Richmond provides the back-up of a Box Hill group train if there's a problem with the Pakenham/Cranbourne line train. And, of course, this option isn't available for passengers from MATH stations.
gxh

Wot is a MATH station, please?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

MATH=Malvern, Armadale, Toorak, Hawksburn.  Add South Yarra and it's MATHS.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
The MATH stations gained their name since all four stations are of the same or similar design, and also because peak trains tend to skip those stations (express from Caulfield to South Yarra).

BHGAC = Someone vomiting on the Lilydale line (Burnley, Hawthorn, Glenferrie, Auburn, Camberwell) Smile
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Thanks Duttonbay, much appreciated.
I don't speak Metro or whatever language MATH is, (thank goodness).
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I don't speak Metro or whatever language MATH is, (thank goodness).
"YM-Mundrabilla"

Certainly not Metro. I first heard it from one of my primary school teachers in the late 1950s.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Certainly not Metro. I first heard it from one of my primary school teachers in the late 1950s.
duttonbay

So did I - just shows the difference in the quality of education between then and now doesn't it!Smile
  jfan Chief Train Controller

Noticed some Comengs are still (last week and this morning) on the "old" timetable... e.g. 0746 ex Caulfield still announces stopping at Malvern, then express to Sth Yarra

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Boss, jdekorte, mrmoopt, xxxxlbear

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.