Economic benefits to passenger rail

 

News article: Economic benefits to passenger rail

It is a problem of the increasing irrelevance of the major parties, especially in the country – a phenomenon that is Australia-wide.

  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
It is a problem of the increasing irrelevance of the major parties, especially in the country – a phenomenon that is Australia-wide.

It has become clear from voting trends across our country that more people are becoming disillusioned with the major political parties.

Mildura has missed out on hosting the National BMX Titles because it failed one essential criterion: a direct public transport train service.
We have been told by our federal MHR Andrew Broad, in defence of his state colleague, Peter Crisp MLA, to come up with a business case for the return of our train, despite much smaller communities already having their trains returned.
Economic benefits to passenger rail


these guys do raise some valid points.  mildura is a city not a town.  there are economic benefits for a town who does have a passenger rail service.

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  Carnot Chief Commissioner

And it still boggles the mind that Toowoomba, a city of 100000+ people 2 hours drive from Brisvegas has only a couple of passenger trains a week that take around 3 hours to complete the journey each way!
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
I fail to see how they missed out on the BMX titles because they didn't have a train.

Really scraping the barrel now.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
That statement is puzzling. I however suspect the idea was mildura is at a disadvantage compared to other Victorian regional centres without a passenger rail service.

This had me thinking. The mere distance mildura is from Melbourne should not be the deciding factor in a decision on returning a passenger service.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
This had me thinking. The mere distance mildura is from Melbourne should not be the deciding factor in a decision on returning a passenger service.
freightgate

The distance Is a very significant deciding factor, as It puts the capital cost and operating cost through the roof.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
And there lies the problem. Why should mildura be treated as a lesser city because they are further from Melbourne ?

How many cities in New South Wales the size of mildura do not have a passenger train ?
  MD Chief Commissioner

Location: Canbera
Lismore for one .
Whats also the definition of having a train.
Griffith has a train , but its once a week.
Would the residents of Mildura be happy with a once a week service.
Mt Gambier in SA doesnt have a train.
Its a pretty marginal argument that a town has to have a train.
A town needs public transport , but thats all.
If it gets a air service and or a bus service , then demanding a train as well is pushing things
especially when the costs of providing a train are high, due to the upgrading costs needed.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
My point is a train provides further economic benefits to the town or in the case of mildura a city.

Would lismore be the only one for NSW ?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
And it still boggles the mind that Toowoomba, a city of 100000+ people 2 hours drive from Brisvegas has only a couple of passenger trains a week that take around 3 hours to complete the journey each way!
Carnot

Probably for not much longer
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
My point is a train provides further economic benefits to the town or in the case of mildura a city.

Would lismore be the only one for NSW ?
freightgate

Its not just Mt Gambia, but what about Port Augusta and Whyalla

Towoomba and Mt Isa/Charters Towers are likely to loose theirs soon.

Lismore,
Ballina
Muwullibah
Glen Innes
Forbes
as others have stated geography does come into it. Sydney is very centric in NSW population spread with nothing in the far western corners. Vic overall has a better rail connection to most of the state. The terrain being mostly flat enables faster services than NSW so distances of ~300km have speeds averaging faster speeds than the XPT does between the state capitals.

Mildura itself is a town/city of reasonable size, but there is nothing much between the long distance Mildura and Marybourgh. This is where planes come into their own as if the bulk of the users are going to sit on their bums for 5-6hr on a train with very little traffic on/off in between, perhaps they should be on a plane which is faster, more frequent and potentially cheaper to operate.

If Mildura was connected to a line extended from Swan Hill, I think the argument whether Mildura should have a train or not would not exist. It would just happen. In NSW, only Broken Hill is serviced by a train running through basically nothing.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Mildura would probably be better suited with a train to Adelaide, just like Broken Hill

The thing with passenger rail is the fact that what you think traffic flow and where the line should go are two different things, like the Wonthaggi passenger train would work more if it went North towards the Latrobe Valley via Leongatha.

The state centric idea of rail is probably not good ideal over long distances to far flung corners of the state
  PClark Chief Commissioner

I agree with RTT_Rules.

Comparably long NSW routes serve at least two large cities, e.g. Tamworth and Armidale; Orange and Dubbo: Wagga and Albury whereas, along the nearly 400km between Maryborough and Mildura there are only hamlets and villages.


With the excellent air services between Mildura and Melbourne the percentage of higher yield (i.e. full-fare) passengers would be minimal and the train would cater almost entirely to the “Three Ps” (pensioners, paupers and passholders)  This was the case when the service did operate.

Also, what would be the effect of a direct rail service on patronage to Swan Hill?  Would it be possible to justify two daily trains if it were not for the passengers connecting with the Mildura road coach?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Its not just Mt Gambia, but what about Port Augusta and Whyalla

Towoomba and Mt Isa/Charters Towers are likely to loose theirs soon.


Forbes
RTT_Rules


Forbes according to Wikipedia has a population of 7000.  Lost their passenger service in 1983.

Mildura on the other hand has in excess of 30,000 residents.  You need to add in the towns immediately around Mildura to perhaps take in another 15,000?

The idea of a train to Adelaide has not been discussed in enough detail on the forum.  I wonder how long the journey might take?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
The idea of a train to Adelaide has not been discussed in enough detail on the forum. I wonder how long the journey might take?
bevans

Driving to Adelaide is 4 hours 40 minutes @ 338km vs Melbourne, which is 6 hours 10 minutes @ 540km
  MD Chief Commissioner

Location: Canbera
From the SA forums, as the Pinnarroo line is facing imminent closure, a train to Adelaide would take forever.
Back in the days before the Melb to Adelaide line was guage converted, and the tailem bend to Pinnaroo line was BG
and in much better shape than it is today, there still was no Mildura - Adelaide passenger service.
Theres a far better case for an Adelaide - Broken Hill passenger service , but there isnt one, not counting the once a week IP.
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
From the SA forums, as the Pinnarroo line is facing imminent closure, a train to Adelaide would take forever.
Back in the days before the Melb to Adelaide line was guage converted, and the tailem bend to Pinnaroo line was BG
and in much better shape than it is today, there still was no Mildura - Adelaide passenger service.
Theres a far better case for an Adelaide - Broken Hill passenger service , but there isnt one, not counting the once a week IP.
MD


if the lines were actually upgraded then freight and passenger services could use the line.  those lines are not dead yet. http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11377738.htm there has been no decision to close either line.

has there ever been an adelaide to mildura or ouyen passenger service?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Forbes according to Wikipedia has a population of 7000. Lost their passenger service in 1983.

Mildura on the other hand has in excess of 30,000 residents. You need to add in the towns immediately around Mildura to perhaps take in another 15,000?

The idea of a train to Adelaide has not been discussed in enough detail on the forum. I wonder how long the journey might take?
bevans

Forbes however is only what 100km from Parkes which is not far from Orange etc etc and there is much more inbetween over a much shorter distance.

Issue with Mildura to Adelaide is simple, there is no freight line so there will be no passenger service. Passengers services in Australia mostly only run on operating freight lines. Loose the freight, loose the pax, ie Mull'bah and the Question mark over Canberra and Armidale and others. So its really a moot point.

Mildura is also a well establish playground for Melbourne and has freight and other links with Melbourne.

the closest a pax service to Adelaide ever came to Mildura I assume was Renmark.
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Forbes however is only what 100km from Parkes which is not far from Orange etc etc and there is much more inbetween over a much shorter distance.

the closest a pax service to Adelaide ever came to Mildura I assume was Renmark.
RTT_Rules


was the renmark service a bluebird railcar when it ran?

when was the last service or was it a special?

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