H0 "Australian" motor cars

 
  allan Chief Commissioner

Motor cars have an important place on a model railway layout: they impart a sense of time and place that even casual observers can associate with.

As scenery, it is reasonable - even desirable - to have a mix of cars from the twenty years or so prior to the nominal time frame of the layout. The material that the models are made from is largely unimportant, and if the steering wheel is on the wrong side, face it the other way...

As a load for a motorail wagon there is still a need for a variety of cars, though the bias should usually be toward cars that are closer to the layout's nominal time frame. Weight becomes important, here. Diecast models over the bogies will give the wagon stability, but, a full load of diecast cars will yield a very heavy and unstable wagon indeed.

As loads for goods wagons, the cars required are very specific. The cars are fresh off the assembly lines, and are all from the same manufacturer, probably all the same model - but there is still variety: there are sedans, wagons and utes, in a variety of colours. There may be a wagon load of Valiants mixed in with the Holdens, but the odds are that they were built in the same week, so will look very unusual if they are not the same year's model. Now, weight is critical. Eight or ten car wagons on a single service was not unusual, and, while recent model locomotives are relatively overpowered, there is good reason for wagon weight standards (who's ever you may follow).

Following on from Auscision's announcement of RTR car carriers to come, it is time to consider the availability of suitable loads - and from where I stand, there is not a lot for consideration. So what is, or was available that can be used to load car carriers on Australian layouts?

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  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Much of the answer is covered in the thread http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11373875.htm

I've shown some of my more detailed car models to Auscision and others over the last few years while discussing the problems to be faced if anyone was to do a car carrying wagon, in particular we're looking at $200+ of cars needed per wagon. Various solutions have been pondered. Idea
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Much of the answer is covered in the thread http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11373875.htm

I've shown some of my more detailed car models to Auscision and others over the last few years while discussing the problems to be faced if anyone was to do a car carrying wagon, in particular we're looking at $200+ of cars needed per wagon. Various solutions have been pondered. Idea
Poath Junction

Poath
Please don't divide this thread with old posts
Although very informative, it will not help us much because this thread was split from the Auscision page and in particular from the new proposed Auscision Car Carrier proposal.
This will create a problem because Australian Die cast vehicles are going to be too heavy.
The average price of European cars a couple inches long is 12 Euros (96 E = about $150 depends on exchange rate)

And specifically we are trying to work around these problems.
Lets continue the thread along here and see what we can come up with?
Cheers
Rod Young
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
If someone out there has more money than I, and a cool head probably a lot younger than I as well wants to take on this project, I have an Australian Model Maker who is prepared to work with you and develop this concept further.
It would require an investment, but using some Australian facilities, new hi temperature molding techniques could make highly detailed loads for 8 car transporters, in 5 colours which can be mixed and matched by clipping the tops on to the base where required. The process could provide 8 vehicles under $30, but chances are they would retail higher than that through shops.
It could start out small
I envisaged Ford Sedans, utes and s/wagons for the first run.
Valiants for the second run
Holdens for a third run

Starting with the Ford XD and equiv. Holden and Valiant years and working forwards doing a new model year as demand permits. Then for Passenger train use the various years and models could be mixed and matched, with spare vehicles distributed around the layout.

The bases come in mat black plastic with the hub caps picked out in chrome. The seats and steering wheels need painting, but the body shells are pad printed with chrome and lights hi lighted. The new Chrystal Clear resin is thin, light weight and leaves clean undistorted glass areas
To fit a ute body, simply clip off the rear seat and click on the ute body.

For use in other places simply clip off the retaining chocks from the tires, separate the bases and plant the cars where ever! The bases will probably be checker plate that the tyres sit upon, or some other method that is not in your face.
They will simply slide in and locate the cars perfectly. Without doubt some will simply cut the base away and apply the cars individually. Your choice.
Anyway that,s the concept. It was going to be developed by another manufacturer, but depending on what Auscision is really doing (This might simply be a marketing ploy to scare off the second manufacturer, or not Smile )
Cheers
Rod Young.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Although very informative, it will not help us much because this thread was split from the Auscision page and in particular from the new proposed Auscision Car Carrier proposal.
comtrain

it was a completely new thread that everyone bar me had ignored for a week.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Much of the answer is covered in the thread http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11373875.htm

I've shown some of my more detailed car models to Auscision and others over the last few years while discussing the problems to be faced if anyone was to do a car carrying wagon, in particular we're looking at $200+ of cars needed per wagon. Various solutions have been pondered. Idea
Poath Junction

What one are you looking at?  Chipps was dated Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:15 am according to RP??
Cheers
Rod
  allan Chief Commissioner

My intention in creating this thread was to come up with a view of the variety of H0 scale motor cars that are "out there", now, and appropriate to Australian layouts. I think that, by now, most of us are aware of a clear lack of models of Australian made vehicles suitable for block loads, as most of us are aware of the European-made models of European made cars, and the few die-casts of Australian made cars.

But, when you look at the cars rolling down our roads, the majority are niether Australian nor European made. There are models of Asian made cars "out there", too, often labelled as "H0" scale, but usually better described as "close to H0 scale", and, relatively inexpensive - or they were when I bought mine. And quite good enough to either put on a layout, or onto a MotoRail wagon.

http://www.87thscale.info/furuta.htm

And, I am sure that there are others.

There is a 1:87 scale vehicle forum, as well, though it's fairly firmly centered on the North Atlantic...

http://87thscale.proboards.com/
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
What one are you looking at? Chipps was dated Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:15 am according to RP??
Cheers
Rod
comtrain

This tread was started independently of the Ausciscion thread on 12/7/14, the opening and subsequent posts were not split from the Auscision thread. This threads primary question and purpose, noted in the last paragraph of the opening post was "Following on from Auscision's announcement of RTR car carriers to come, it is time to consider the availability of suitable loads - and from where I stand, there is not a lot for consideration. So what is, or was available that can be used to load car carriers on Australian layouts? ". I answered that question in a timely manner using the simplest way, by pointing out a similar topic had been raised and debated a year ago.  After this thread was started (on 12/7/14) people, including yourself, continued the car conversation in the Auscision thread for days whilst ignoring this one.
The information in http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11373875.htm is quite pertinent to this thread as it details the easiest way to quickly locate the majority of suitable cars that are currently available, particularly in rtr form, including references to the foreign named versions of our domestic cars.
  brissim Chief Train Controller

Obviously a very slow weekend. Poath has been absolutely correct in everything he has said here. His reference back to the "Chipps" thread was correct and proper and was simply making the point that the topic has been discussed before and here's the reference. The referenced thread has got nothing to do with the recent discussion in the Auscision thread.

Tony
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Yes Australian type cars for motor vehicle wagons is going to be a real dogs breakfast. As it stands I doubt you could fill one wagon with anything near to Australian cars actually in plastic. So here is a niche market for some enterprising manufacturer to make these cars in plastic to be used on the Auscision wagons. I would have actually preferred some of the wagons to have had cars made to fit on them though, like the ones used on passenger trains for example. Some simple cars placed on them would remove the bare look at least till something better comes along in the future in the way of cars.


A simple expedient if you have only Diecast cars to use on one of these wagons might be to remove the inbuilt weight in the wagon and just use the diecast cars as the weight in the car. It might lower the overall weight a bit. But adding diecast cars to the top of the wagons will only make the car top heavy and so prone to problems.
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

I can't believe the discussion going on here about "I would have actually preferred some of the wagons to have had cars made to fit on them", "openings for some local manufacturer", "someone was going to produce them until...", etc, etc, etc.


This is all based on a few computer renders of some upcoming Auscision wagons that some people have already 'decided' won't come with cars, blah, blah, blah.


How about we wait till the manufacturer actually releases details of what's coming, they haven't let us down in the past...


Paul
  allan Chief Commissioner

Some of us have been building a variety of car wagons for some years.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Some of us have been building a variety of car wagons for some years.
allan

Exactly!
I have a few scratch built NSW Carriers as well as several epoxy ones from 20 years ago, now retired,
End of Line Models has a fantastic brass ( epoxy floor) kit in 12 versions ,I think. But at a $109 it is only available if you really want to spend the money. My 10 kits set me back more than $1000. However I simply paid them off at $100 a month and it did not hurt at all Very Happy I believe aboutr 400 kits have been distributed.
So their is both a need and a reason to create cheaper cars and older cars for our Railways And if you are going to do that and model modern cars, you are modelling one passenger train or those that cross the Nullabor (and they are entirely different to the Auscision drawings)

So as modern modellers will never see a two deck car wagon in a train, it seems obvious to me that those who want car carriers are going to be modelling 1962 to about 1990 when these vehicles were actually part of trains.

From the above it is rather obvious that motor vehicles from the 60's to 90's are needed not the Japanese and Korean match boxes available now from O/S. Did Datsun / Nissan even send cars on trains (re Futaba)?

So as always RP threads fall into the abyss as always and become pissing contests once again. Pity we never grow up here, but maybe its because most of us play with toys rather than model railways Sad
Rod Young
  Robcov Station Master

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but here's a list of cars that were available during the 70's and for which models exist. Using a book called: "Which car for you?" by Pedr Davis as a reference:
In plastic:
Alfa Romeo Alfasud (Herpa),
Audi 80 (Brekina),
Audi 100 (Wiking),
BMW 2002 (Wiking),
BMW 323i (Herpa),
BMW 2500 (Brekina),
Citroen DS (Brekina),
Fiat 131 Mirafiori (Brekina),
Ford Escort mk1 - 2 door and 4 door (Wiking),
Jaguar E-type (Busch),
Jaguar XJ6 (Brekina),
Mercedes-Benz 280 (Brekina),
Mercedes-Benz W123 (Busch),
Peugeot 504 (Brekina),
Renault R12 (Brekina),
Toyota Celica GT (Brekina),
Volkswagen Beetle (Brekina, Busch, Wiking and AWM) Everyone makes this one!
Volkswagen Golf 1 (Brekina),
Volkswagen Passat (Brekina),
Volvo 144 (Brekina),
Volvo 145 (Brekina).

In resin:
Alfa Romeo Alfetta 1.6, Citroen CX, Volvo 244 (all by Neo).

In Metal/plastic:
Mercedes-Benz S-class, Volkswagen Beetle, Volkswagen Golf 1 (all by Schuco).

Die-cast metal: (not including Cooee Classics or Weico)
BMW 2002 (BUB),
Datsun 240Z 'Fairlady' (BUB),
Ford Escort mkII (BUB),
Leyland Mini Cooper S (BUB),
Volkswagen Beetle (BUB)

The early Commodore was constructed from the nose of the Opel Senator and the body of the Opel Rekord 2 (both Herpa).

The later model Torana was based on the Opel Ascona apparently but I can't see enough similarity.

Ditto the Gemini, with the Opel Kadett C.

The Ford Falcon XD was based  on the Ford Granada but the windows look too small for me.

The Ford Cortina was based on the Ford Taunus, which doesn't quite have the Coke-bottle shape or a wide-enough bulge in the bonnet.
http://www.minicar87.de/uk/Brekina/168043/Modelcar-Ford-Taunus-GT-light-blue.htm

I couldn't find any Japanese cars apart from the Celica and the 240Z.

Rob.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Your list contains mostly European cars, and few of those would have been found on car carriers in comparison to Australian and Japanese cars.

And: 'The Ford Cortina was based on the Ford Taunus'. Actually the Ford Cortina was around decades before the Ford Taurus, and therefore was not based on it at all.

The Ford Granada had only a passing resemblance to the Falcon XD and there was no commonality with the XD in any way.
  Robcov Station Master

Yes, I concede they're nearly all European, but I was thinking cars in general rather than Holden/Ford block trains. As for the Cortina, 'based on' is a bit strong, but the TC Mark III (1970-76) from Wikipedia: "The car marked the convergence of the German [color=#0b0080][size=2][font=sans-serif]Taunus[/font][/size][/color] and British Cortina platforms with only minor differences between the two". I agree about the Granada but I've seen/heard others say it was good enough for an XD.


Rob.
  Bills_Billboards Chief Commissioner

Can not recall who made it but there is a plastic XK Falcon available aswell , i got mine from Caboose hobbies some time back
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Can not recall who made it but there is a plastic XK Falcon available aswell , i got mine from Caboose hobbies some time back
Bills_Billboards

I am still hopeful that the cars will be produced but have no idea how long it will take. I just heard about a company in Thailand who are producing HO cars. I am trying to locate their web address, because my informant said they saw them on a recent trip to Thailand and that they appeared to be home grown. Did Thailand import Holdens Fords and Toyotas from Australia?
Cheers
Rod
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
I am still hopeful that the cars will be produced but have no idea how long it will take. I just heard about a company in Thailand who are producing HO cars. I am trying to locate their web address, because my informant said they saw them on a recent trip to Thailand and that they appeared to be home grown. Did Thailand import Holdens Fords and Toyotas from Australia?
Cheers
Rod
comtrain

I hope they imported Hillmans, Vauxhalls and other British cars.  Very few of them are available in H0.

Mark
  barkfast Station Master

Ignoring the slight(?) difference in scale - Oxford Die Cast have a great range of nicely detailed British outline cars/trucks/bikes etc.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
Ignoring the slight(?) difference in scale - Oxford Die Cast have a great range of nicely detailed British outline cars/trucks/bikes etc.
barkfast

Nup, I can't ignore the idea of a Morris Minor being bigger than a FJ.

Mark
  73LJWhiteSL Deputy Commissioner

Location: South East Melbourne Surburbs

The later model Torana was based on the Opel Ascona apparently but I can't see enough similarity.
Robcov


The first Torana was a rebadged Vaxhual Viva essentially. The second type was built around the Viva floor pan with a new body and the later type was an all new body that was not similar to any other vehicles word wide.
  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW
Might I al;so point out that Oxford Die Cast have produced cars at HO scale for the US market.

Iain
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
So I can get the right cars in the wrong scale or the wrong cars in the right scale.
  The railway dog Train Controller

Location: Adelaide Hills
Looking at the Oxford Diecast HO vehicles, they're all American cars & pretty rare in Oz. Obviously an attempt by them to get into the U.S. market & good luck to them.
The Australian model railway scene needs English vehicles modeled to HO, but it'd be one of very few markets in the world needing these.
I've got a few European '50s era cars on the layout that look English enough unless you truly know your cars, which I don't.

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