Penrice stone train

 
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
another possible issue for the movement of quarry products from penrice to other customers is the gauge issue.  if penrice was on sg would this make the options for rail a little more viable?

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  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Tony

Valid points but the Accolade II is now 30+ years old and must be coming to the end of its economic life.

Railing stone from Penrice may be cheaper than a new ship.

One can live in hope.

Ian
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Tony

Valid points but the Accolade II is now 30+ years old and must be coming to the end of its economic life.

Railing stone from Penrice may be cheaper than a new ship.

One can live in hope.

Ian
"steam4ian"
A ship which only ever pootles around in the calm waters of Gulf St Vincent and never goes on the high seas should last closer to 60-70 years so long as it has been maintained properly – many WWII transports are still in regular service all over the world. Consider that we've got plenty of 40+ year old diesel locomotives still in operation in Australia (most of which only get withdrawn as they become obsolete, well before they get worn out) and that a ship is far easier to look after than a loco.

The initial costs of setting up a rail operation can be lower (i.e. if existing routes and rolling stock can be used) but the problem for rail is the ongoing cost of operation - it's simply impossible to shift the tonnages required at a competitive rate. For bulk freight that is not time-sensitive, rail is only useful for landlocked journeys or the link between the landlocked source and a port.

This is why iron ore exporters in far north SA all set up their rail/sea transshipment facilities in SA, despite the initial movement on rail being in the wrong direction and making for a far longer segment of the journey by sea looping around the southern side of Australia. It's not just about the rail bureaucracy either, the journey south was chosen by these operators despite it involving congested routes and one more massive bureaucracy (i.e. ARTC) than the other option of hauling north to a transshipment facility near Darwin over exclusively GWA metals – although the history of GWA choosing not to compete as on the grain lines might be a factor there as well.

My guess is that ABC will continue to have the Accolade II (or its eventual replacement, which would no doubt be purchased through a lease arrangement just as many rail operators do with new kit) shuttling across the gulf for their operations at Birkenhead, and have the Penrice quarry continue to supply their operations at Angaston with transport handled by local truck trips just as it was doing under PSP ownership.  This is just a company being forced to buy up the operations of a supplier as an option of last resort to preserve the supply on which they depend (similar to the various component companies which were bought up by Holden or Ford when they went under) and is likely to see jobs go as the operations related to supplying the PSP Osborne operations get cut.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Unfortunately it looks like Penrice is not being sold as a going concern, despite earlier hopes that it may be. Mason Gray Strange are auctioning off the whole site over two days this week.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Unfortunately it looks like Penrice is not being sold as a going concern, despite earlier hopes that it may be. Mason Gray Strange are auctioning off the whole site over two days this week.
don_dunstan

That's quick.

Mind you who ever buys the site as is could get the plant going again.

I don't think there is the will.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

That's quick.

Mind you who ever buys the site as is could get the plant going again.

I don't think there is the will.
"steam4ian"
If there was a company out there which thought the plant was commercial or was so reliant on its output that they'd be willing to run it at a loss, they wouldn't try to pick it up by winning every lot at auction and then making the highest bid for the land. They would have made an offer directly to the liquidators well before now and picked up the whole plant with less cost to them (and less risk of the move failing due to being outbid for certain important items or the land) and greater recovery to the creditors, and then engaged an auctioneer to sell off the stuff they didn't need like the 1.7 metre painted dolphin in the lunch room.

The fact is that it's not about "the will" but actually that nobody needed PSP Osborne enough for it to remain a viable commercial operation. Obviously it was a different story for the PSP subsidiary Penrice Quarry and Minerals, but even that silver cloud has a grey lining as ABC had to make 19 ex-PSP workers redundant in light of the reduced level of operation at the quarry without the output going to the Osborne plant.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Unfortunately it looks like Penrice is not being sold as a going concern, despite earlier hopes that it may be. Mason Gray Strange are auctioning off the whole site over two days this week.
"don_dunstan"

That's quick.

Mind you who ever buys the site as is could get the plant going again.

I don't think there is the will.
"steam4ian"


Of interests sake, for any of those hoping that someone will buy and resurrect the site........
I can report that someone has indeed purchased much of the equipment, but don't get your hopes up!
My employer is currently dismantling much of the soda ash / bicarb side, It's going overseas to be reused (to Europe I believe)

RIP : PSP
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Of interests sake, for any of those hoping that someone will buy and resurrect the site........
I can report that someone has indeed purchased much of the equipment, but don't get your hopes up!
My employer is currently dismantling much of the soda ash / bicarb side, It's going overseas to be reused (to Europe I believe)

RIP : PSP
Pressman

Ironic that the plant can go to Europe where costs are higher than here and controls tighter. I am surprised the plant is worth recovering although the power station truly belongs in a museum.

The only thing that threatened PSPs viability was its debt not its process or day to day covering of costs'.

As justapax says, this country has no commitment to doing anything.

RIP Industry.
Rip employment unless you like wiping old people's bums.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Ironic that the plant can go to Europe where costs are higher than here and controls tighter. I am surprised the plant is worth recovering although the power station truly belongs in a museum.

The only thing that threatened PSPs viability was its debt not its process or day to day covering of costs'.

As justapax says, this country has no commitment to doing anything.

RIP Industry.
Rip employment unless you like wiping old people's bums.
"steam4ian"


Surprisingly Ian, a lot of the bicarb section is relatively new (less than 20years old) not like the Power house, which most definitely is a "museum" (lots of PILSWA cable in there!!!!!) PILSWA = Paper Insulated, Lead Sheathed, Wire Armoured ICI were 'buying' steam from ETSA's Osborne Power Station next door in the 80's because all but one of their boilers were stuffed!

With Abbot appearing to offshore our defence contracts ... very much RIP to Australian Industry
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
With Abbot appearing to offshore our defence contracts ... very much RIP to Australian Industry
Pressman

Penrice Osborne was about 100 jobs. If ASC leaves too the area around Port Adelaide will be an unemployment black hole - it already has some of the highest unemployment in the country.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Penrice Osborne was about 100 jobs. If ASC leaves too the area around Port Adelaide will be an unemployment black hole - it already has some of the highest unemployment in the country.
"don_dunstan"

Don the days of employees living close to their workplace are long gone, I know guys that work at ASC who live as far away as Hallet Cove, Aldinga, Gawler and Mount Barker. The closure will effect unemployment in many areas!
I have worked in the Port area for nearly 35 years and have lived as far away as Tea Tree Gully, Tranmere, North Glenelg and Woodville
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
As justapax says, this country has no commitment to doing anything.
steam4ian

The only thing worth doing in this country is building apartments and flipping them for a profit.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
The only thing worth doing in this country is building apartments and flipping them for a profit.
don_dunstan

Not even that Don. Very soon now most of those filing cabinets in the sky will be too expensive for lower paid workers to rent, let alone buy. The great majority of the lower paid workers will be from the fast disappearing intelligent and hard working middle class.

There are already headlines about the loss of affordable housing in former slum or near slum suburbs where rents are now too expensive for all but the increasingly few yuppies who can still afford them on their unearned investment incomes. Shops are empty because customers cannot afford anything but the necessities and greedy landlords have made them far too expensive to rent.

We called this situation the 'Great Depression' in the 30s. Though I was a child then, I can well remember the good men tramping the length and breadth of the continent to try and feed their families and the bare feet, patched handed down clothing from older siblings (sometimes twice) and mutton dripping lunch time sandwiches of my classmates.

It's all because our cretinous politicians have instituted 'free trade' with almost all of the benefits going to foreigners rather than Australians, and because they refuse to allow our central bank to create carefully controlled interest free credit for essential infrastructure and national welfare projects. The original Commonwealth Bank was created for that very purpose.

Australia once had a 'can do' (eg. railways, Snowy Mountain Scheme, local manufacturing of what Australians invented and thousands of another necessities of life etc.), but our masters in Canberra have literally given it all away in the name of managing our debt. The USA has 'printed' MANY TRILLIONS of unfunded credit which can never be repaid and as a result prospers partly at our expense.

The advent of war and the resultant unfunded manufacture of armaments saved us from social breakdown and eventual revolution in 1939. I wonder how long it will be before the feral gangs of hungry unemployed youth will make even fortified homes unsafe.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
James - you worry too much. Our esteemed Prime Minister is right on to this situation... only yesterday he raised the terror level from amber to vermillion.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
We called this situation the 'Great Depression' in the 30s.
SAR526

My grandfather used to tell me lots of stories about the Depression - he was a teen out of work for a long time but managed to get work as the war industries were ramping up towards the end of the thirties; it was the extreme waste of human potential that was the saddest part.

Rest assured if there was another Great Depression we'd have Andrew Bolt, Judith Sloan and all the other right-wing Murdoch columnists blaming the unemployed for their own predicament (as they do now).
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
One only had to read between the lines to see PSP fate a long time ago when they first got into trouble over their debt it was only going to become worse unless some white knight rode in and saved them. Obviously no one wanted to be that white knight except for ABC which only wanted the quarry anyway. There was only one nibble according to the administrator and I would think that company took one look at the rap sheet and then fell silent, who could blame them with that much debt hanging over any prospective buyer! No one in their right mind would buy that much debt along with the company though.


One thing I should add though manufacturing wise is that SA is not going down the gurgler, it is most of the way down the drain and it will never recover fully from it no matter what anyone does! Sorry to be so negative but it is the truth however!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
.... it is most of the way down the drain and it will never recover fully from it no matter what anyone does! Sorry to be so negative but it is the truth however!
David Peters

Maybe.

If Tony Abbott Ltd. actually has any sort of a plan that could actually be identified, it would be that the wages of the average worker should be reduced so that we become a more attractive destination for industry. Ultimately the strategy for eliminating the 'high cost' from the Aussie economy is to focus on only one segment - wages.

While it might work in theory, there's all sorts of longer term problems - not the least of which is a drop in living standards for the people who are least able to defend themselves (the unskilled or semi-skilled, the non-unionised, women, migrants). However having a wages base lower than other developed countries is (I suppose) an attractive inducement to get international businesses to invest here.

"Open for business", just like he said on election night.

Would lower wages have saved Penrice?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Lower wages would not have saved Penrice. It was a debt laid down by previous mismanagement which strangled Penrice.

Considering Germany wages is not the issue to having Industry; Germany still manufactures automobiles and makes chemicals and machinery.

What is killing this country is the high cost of goods because even now all the duties have been swept away apart from the GST, and that is not cumulative, the retail prices in Oz are still much, much higher than elsewhere. This not helped by our almost monopolised retain industry, duopoly. High cost leads to high wages.

What saves industry and hence employment is reinvestment; another story for some other time.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
......... Obviously no one wanted to be that white knight except for ABC which only wanted the quarry anyway.
"David Peters"

No white knights from Adelaide Brighton, they only bought the quarry to preserve their own supply chain.
They don't care about any others that purchase quarry products. They are downsizing it to meet their own supply requirements, no one elses.
......... There was only one nibble according to the administrator and I would think that company took one look at the rap sheet and then fell silent,
"David Peters"

Yep, fell strangely silent until the auctioneers hammer started to fall, then they spoke up!
Why do you think they are removing all the equipment they want so quickly.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Why do you think they are removing all the equipment they want so quickly.
Pressman

Does anyone know; is the plant equipment going somewhere locally or overseas (as mentioned earlier)?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Considering Germany wages is not the issue to having Industry; Germany still manufactures automobiles and makes chemicals and machinery.
steam4ian

Germany and Korea tend to disprove the thesis that you have to be a 'low wage' economy to be successful.

I would have thought this was the ultimate direction we were headed in as a nation with such a large emphasis on training and our internationally-recognised universities. Maybe 'clever country' actually meant that we would have the world's most highly-educated dole queue?
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me

Considering Germany wages is not the issue to having Industry; Germany still manufactures automobiles and makes chemicals and machinery.
"steam4ian"

Germany and Korea tend to disprove the thesis that you have to be a 'low wage' economy to be successful.
"don_dunstan"

The equipment being removed isn't heading to Germany or Korea!

où pensez-vous que ça va ?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
That's not a low-wage economy either though is it?
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
That's not a low-wage economy either though is it?
"don_dunstan"

non ce n'est pas
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Germany and Korea tend to disprove the thesis that you have to be a 'low wage' economy to be successful.

I would have thought this was the ultimate direction we were headed in as a nation with such a large emphasis on training and our internationally-recognised universities. Maybe 'clever country' actually meant that we would have the world's most highly-educated dole queue?
don_dunstan

Germany is in the middle of 500 million people who have a reasonable standard of living or better and has strong reputation for quality. The brand "made in Germany" adds allot of value to their product to off-set the higher cost. Post WW2, the Russians raided old East Germany for equipment and tooling as during the war the German's precision engineering exceeded most of the allies. However working with a German supplier this year, they tell the same story. Complaining their govt only focuses on "Degrees and hairdressers". Manufacturing is on the decline, especially with alot new production being shifted to Poland where wages are alot cheaper, but their systems and standards are close to a developed country and its close and easy to get to. BMW etc are making more and more cars off-shore.

South Korea has established itself as a low cost reasonable quality manufacturer and again surrounded by nearly 2B people in a rapidly developing region. Wage creep is impacting on them like previously Japan and hence part of the driver to set up a exclusive zone in Nth Korea to manufacture at lower wage costs.

Meanwhile Australia is a high cost country with a small spread out population in the butt end of the world. Australia has only a small reputation of quality manufacturing and only specialized Engineering. Wage growth in recent years killed numerous places of local design and manufacture. Working OS we saw the big difference in Phase 1 of a project where there were lots of Aussie employees and Aussie supplies, come Phase 2, 6 years later. No where near the Aussie input as Australia is too expensive and people refused to work for the salaries on offer. Engineering design was taken out of Brisbane and sent to London. The dollar should be lower which effectively gives Australians a pay cut, but it hasn't so employers are doing other ways to survive and provide the much delayed reality check.

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