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Retiring of the 2000 class Railcars

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      1S47 Assistant Commissioner

    Location: On the Down Fast
    We must nearly be at about 50+ drivers at DPTI that have NEVER EVEN SEEN the Tonsley line.
    Aaron

    I assume >50 is tongue-in-cheek.   The line has been closed over 2 years now, but hopefully there isn't such a high turnover in Metro train drivers that there could now be 50 who have never driven to Tonsley.

    Despite the punishing 24hr shift work, I thought train driving was a good, secure and well-paid job that most people hung onto once they got it (and management try to make sure you are suited & motivated before they go to the time & expense of training).

    Or could this number be in the ballpark due to a lot of "old blokes" reaching retirement age?
    Posted: 06 Mar 2014 18:13

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      David Peters Dr Beeching

    Location: "With Hey Boy".
    Probably more like a lot of drivers having mortgages or something and getting qualified and then going to where the pay is better like the Pilbara's or something. Several driver friends of mine now work in the Pilbara's.
    Posted: 06 Mar 2014 18:50
      Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

    I assume >50 is tongue-in-cheek. The line has been closed over 2 years now, but hopefully there isn't such a high turnover in Metro train drivers that there could now be 50 who have never driven to Tonsley.

    Despite the punishing 24hr shift work, I thought train driving was a good, secure and well-paid job that most people hung onto once they got it (and management try to make sure you are suited & motivated before they go to the time & expense of training).

    Or could this number be in the ballpark due to a lot of "old blokes" reaching retirement age?
    1S47


    It is a large number, 50 might be a bit of a slight exaggeration however it isn't far off. There have been mass recruitments of Suburban Train Drivers for the last couple of years to build up driver numbers for more services offered around the system. For a while, new drivers were almost replacing one for one drivers that have gone to other operators, but this hasn't been the case for a while.
    Posted: 06 Mar 2014 18:53
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    I assume >50 is tongue-in-cheek.   The line has been closed over 2 years now, but hopefully there isn't such a high turnover in Metro train drivers that there could now be 50 who have never driven to Tonsley.
    "1S47"
    It's certainly >40, I was initially going to post nearly 50, but then I thought the 40+ figure was a while ago, so I posted 50+ instead. The number of new drivers since Tonsley closed is certainly quite large.
    Posted: 06 Mar 2014 19:42
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    There's a rumour floating around that once A-City 4010 enters service (probably within the next 2-3 weeks), 4 Jumbo cars/trailers will be retired. Sad
    Posted: 25 Aug 2014 22:39
      Halo Chief Train Controller

    Yet they keep blaming bad service on lack of railcars.
    Posted: 25 Aug 2014 23:22
      justapassenger Minister for Railways

    Yet they keep blaming bad service on lack of railcars.
    "Halo"
    I haven't actually heard that one for a while, I thought signalling issues and mechanical failures were the current trendy excuses.

    They don't even seem to be having much difficulty with AFL matches, now that the crowds have worked out that public transport is only capable of taking about 35-40% of an Adelaide crowd and 50-55% of a smaller Port crowd.
    Posted: 26 Aug 2014 09:52

    Last edited by justapassenger on 26 Aug 2014 09:57; edited 1 time in total
      ben610 Station Staff

    There's a rumour floating around that once A-City 4010 enters service (probably within the next 2-3 weeks), 4 Jumbo cars/trailers will be retired. Sad
    greasyrhys

    Would be sad Sad Is 2002 a candidate? - haven't seen it for a while
    Posted: 26 Aug 2014 20:18
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    I've also noticed 2002 hasn't been used for a while now, I'll be surprised if that returns to service.
    Posted: 27 Aug 2014 00:40
      don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Adelaide proud
    35 years of service isn't bad considering they weren't fit for purpose in many ways. Too thirsty and heavy.

    I wonder if they will be seen at Sims soon? Probably the ones in the worst condition first.
    Posted: 27 Aug 2014 12:44

    Last edited by don_dunstan on 27 Aug 2014 12:45; edited 1 time in total
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    The Jumbos (for the past year & a bit) have been used during the off-peak as well as the 2 peak periods. Like the Redhens in their last few months/years, these will generally be restricted to running during the peak periods only, so get your photos while you still can!
    Posted: 27 Aug 2014 15:14
      Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

    I've also noticed 2002 hasn't been used for a while now, I'll be surprised if that returns to service.
    greasyrhys


    I was told 3-4 weeks ago 2002 has been decommissioned
    Posted: 28 Aug 2014 19:01

    Last edited by Milkomeda on 28 Aug 2014 19:03; edited 1 time in total
      ben610 Station Staff

    Don't know if it means anything but just saw 2111-2004-2117-2012 heading into Adelaide Station this evening, which means some long-standing consists have been broken up.
    Posted: 28 Aug 2014 19:13
      Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

    Reliable source tells me half a dozen jumbos were retired from service today (Wasn't told the numbers).
    Posted: 28 Aug 2014 21:20

    Last edited by Milkomeda on 28 Aug 2014 21:20; edited 1 time in total
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    Strange, they wouldn't want to retire them too quickly...
    Posted: 28 Aug 2014 22:59
      justapassenger Minister for Railways

    Surely this "retirement" would initially consist of parking them somewhere where they won't get in the way, where they could be reinstated if required (in the event of a giant swamp monster eating a bunch of DEMUs or some other such unforeseen disaster) or get stripped for parts to keep the rest in serviceable condition.

    By my count there were 10 Jumbo consists in operation before the Noarlunga shutdown began* and we've now had eight EMUs enter service with the ninth probably not too far away.

    Two of the EMUs were needed just to provide enough capacity to extend Brighton and Noarlunga trains to Seaford, which leaves the other six units as having added new capacity which did not exist before and allowing the cascading of DEMUs to boost the service on the other lines. On the basis of having six extra units on top of those required to serve the Seaford extension, it would seem it's not at all premature to retire one or two of the Jumbo consists in the worst clapped out condition instead of spending $$$$$ on keeping them going.

    The other issue could be capacity at depots. If I remember correctly, the new Seaford Meadows depot was built with space for stabling 14 EMUs, and we're already up to ten delivered. That's only four months away from the capacity added in 2013 being fully taken up. How much slack would there be at Dry Creek, Gawler and Belair to handle the cascading of DEMUs off the Seaford line if the Jumbos were not retired to make way

    * back in December 2012, when we were told by sources thought to be reputable at the time that EMUs would start arriving in a month's time and every fortnight after that to start service in September, complete with people getting misty-eyed about the last chance EVER to ride the Jumbos. Oh how funny that looks now!
    Posted: 29 Aug 2014 00:35
      ben610 Station Staff

    Perhaps 2107, 2108, 2110, 2115, 2007, 2008 are the retirees given the consist I saw go into Adelaide Station yesterday.
    Posted: 29 Aug 2014 08:31
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    Based on Justapax's calculations I would have thought it a bit premature retiring the 2000s until at least 4 more 4000 sets have arrived.

    The 3000s must have been pushed fairly hard once the Seaford extension opened and there must be a backlog of maintenance.
    There have been complaints of crowding, has that now passed because potential passengers have lost to other modes? FAIL!

    The Tonsley line still has only a skeleton service in spite of the extensive park and ride provisions at Clovelly Park and the Junction upgrade which delayed the whole Seaford job. FAIL!

    There are only two semi express trains from/to Seaford at peak times. FAIL!

    The turn back facilities at Brighton remain unused so Seaford trains have to skip stop from there to ARS making them slower. FAIL!

    And while I am at it
    Squillions of $s were wasted on the so called signalling upgrades.

    1. Leaving the previous signalling intact and working around it must have cost track contractor considerable inconvenience.

    2. The previous signalling could have been restored as done on the other lines with no lost time

    3. The new signalling could have been overlayed on the old because no track circuits were involved

    4. Closer block spacing would have allowed shorter intervals between trains, but they retained the same signal sites and blocks

    5. Signal siting and sighting with the overhead works was a total stuff up.

    6. With closer spacing either four aspect signals or double reds could be installed prevent the 40 kph past a yellow requirement.


    The 40 kph past a yellow has clagged up the whole system, made the time tables a fable. FAIL.
    Posted: 29 Aug 2014 10:15
      torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

    You forgot 1 hourly night time services, this is the biggest fail of Adelaide metro trains.
    Posted: 29 Aug 2014 16:07
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    You forgot 1 hourly night time services, this is the biggest fail of Adelaide metro trains.
    torrens5022

    How could is miss one of my pet beefs? FAIL
    Posted: 29 Aug 2014 16:48
      1S47 Assistant Commissioner

    Location: On the Down Fast
    If I were in charge, I'd be waiting for a few more months of satisfactory operation with the A-City EMUs before decommissioning too many Jumbos.

    Certainly, park the Jumbos on the back road, use them sparingly and don't spend big $$$ on repairs, but I'd be keeping a good number serviceable.

    There have already been quality problems with the EMUs from brand new, and all it'll take is something unexpected, like an exploding transformer, air-conditioners that pack up when it gets to 35ºC or some brake problems like Melbourne's Siemens, and the whole EMU fleet could be off the rails for modification.

    I know they're supposed to be a "proven design" and low risk (they said that about the Titanic), but I'd be wanting a few more months in service to feel fully confident with Bombardier's product.

    At least, if we kept serviceable Jumbos, any mishap with the electrics could mean temporarily going back to DEMUs on the Seaford line, and using Jumbos on the Port & Gawler lines.

    Without a backup, it'll be back to the N3 & N4 buses.
    Posted: 29 Aug 2014 17:18
      trainlover Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Adelaide.
    Anther 4 car Jumbo set in Traffic has 2109/2010/2104/2003 The front 3 cars all face North with only 2003 facing South.

    With 2008 Parked on its own at Dry Creek And 2003 in the 4 car set we now have currently no 2 car sets out in traffic.
    Posted: 29 Aug 2014 18:33
      don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Adelaide proud
    * back in December 2012, when we were told by sources thought to be reputable at the time that EMUs would start arriving in a month's time and every fortnight after that to start service in September, complete with people getting misty-eyed about the last chance EVER to ride the Jumbos. Oh how funny that looks now!
    justapassenger


    And now it's actually happening! I'm debating if I can be bothered travelling to SA to ride on one before they all go.

    I know they're supposed to be a "proven design" and low risk (they said that about the Titanic)

    The Titanic was a proven design but it was used in a manner not anticipated by the designers - top speed through a field of icebergs at night-time.
    Posted: 29 Aug 2014 19:34

    Last edited by don_dunstan on 29 Aug 2014 19:54; edited 2 times in total
      ben610 Station Staff

    Think most of the trailers still in the orange livery (except 2101 and 2111) have been earmarked for retirement first.
    Posted: 29 Aug 2014 20:19
      AN830 Locomotive Driver

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia
    I have been told there is a jumbo consist floating around at the moment with 2 power cars and 1 trailer, from what I have been told no Jumbos have been retired yet.
    Posted: 30 Aug 2014 01:46

    Last edited by AN830 on 30 Aug 2014 01:47; edited 1 time in total

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