Who is winning The RACE (part 2)?

 
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
NSW Railcars. RM38 Creamy Kate. Kits were/are? available.

Paybus?

X100 & X200

7201 Was always only a test bed for what eventually became the 73cl, while not an overly great success on general trip working it actually found its place as a successful shunting engine on the old Balmain coal loader, taking the place of a standard goods engine on the actual unloading #1 Balmain shift, like many other experimental items it had its quirky nature but as the amount of drivers who were qualified for it, got used to it, it did a good job, my regular mate at the time was one of them & never had issues with it.
a6et

Stephen Johnson Models made a "Creamy Kate" kit......

There have been 2 paybus kits that I know of. One was the early type with the single end (had to be turned at terminus). I can remember as a kid in the late 50s, seeing one of these come to Narrandera regularly. It required a NWSL "SPUD"....I sold my model when I went to DCC because I couldn't ever imagine being able to convert it to DCC. Not sure who made the kit....it was a resin casting from memory.

The other was the larger type with a cab at each end. I think it was made by the same mob that made the older/smaller paybus.

Bergs made a white-metal X200 kit at one stage. Not sure if anybody has done the X100 though.

I don't think any of these are currently available....probably ebay would be your only hope....they seem to crop up from time to time.

I don't know anything about 7201; sorry mate.

Bill

Sponsored advertisement

  a6et Minister for Railways

Stephen Johnson Models made a "Creamy Kate" kit......

There have been 2 paybus kits that I know of. One was the early type with the single end (had to be turned at terminus). I can remember as a kid in the late 50s, seeing one of these come to Narrandera regularly. It required a NWSL "SPUD"....I sold my model when I went to DCC because I couldn't ever imagine being able to convert it to DCC. Not sure who made the kit....it was a resin casting from memory.

The other was the larger type with a cab at each end. I think it was made by the same mob that made the older/smaller paybus.

Bergs made a white-metal X200 kit at one stage. Not sure if anybody has done the X100 though.

I don't think any of these are currently available....probably ebay would be your only hope....they seem to crop up from time to time.

I don't know anything about 7201; sorry mate.

Bill
Roachie

Bill, you're right with kits but the primary aspect of this thread is for RTR models rather than kits.

The old original pay bus could be done these days with better motors out there & being smaller would work, & that's what I would like, interesting to get sound into the rotten things though.

Other than the old Pay bus, I am not especially interested in getting any of them so no worries for me in that department, & I certainly don't want to be reminded of the flying farts either, when steam was pulled from Balmain, 7201 was pulled off #1 pushing onto the weighbridge from storage road to go on the #2 working, pushing the loaded wagons from the yard to the storage sidings next to the bridge, with a fart put onto #1, a rotten terrible working indeed.
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
NSW Railcars. RM38 Creamy Kate. Kits were/are? available.

Paybus?

X100 & X200

7201 Was always only a test bed for what eventually became the 73cl, while not an overly great success on general trip working it actually found its place as a successful shunting engine on the old Balmain coal loader, taking the place of a standard goods engine on the actual unloading #1 Balmain shift, like many other experimental items it had its quirky nature but as the amount of drivers who were qualified for it, got used to it, it did a good job, my regular mate at the time was one of them & never had issues with it.
a6et

Thanks, have updated that list with those. I based my comments on 7201 from what I read in the NSWRTM book.  Happy to stand corrected on what I called it.  Either way, its clear no RTR model will be made of it.
The NSW rail tractors are a possible RTR model I guess, no idea how likely, given the three variations.

Regards
  figjam2 Station Master

Berg still make the x200 I picked one up before switching too o scale
  a6et Minister for Railways

Berg still make the x200 I picked one up before switching too o scale
figjam2

Kit or RTR?
  figjam2 Station Master

There a white metal kit I found it easy too build too
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
Détente, the Bomb and Mutually Assured Destruction (or MAD!!)

Or how I learned to stop worrying and Love Australian Outline

We start this essay with a profound apology to the late Dr Stanley Kubrick. We must also apologise for the lack of updates. But the RACE officials have been busy. What they have been doing is of course, totally classified under the Official Secrets Act. Yes, its going to be that kind of essay. Where we talk about what we can’t talk about, and reveal almost nothing at all, but then at the end, we may drop a bomb.
Or not.
There’s no doubt that several ‘nukes’ have been dropped in what appears to have become almost a war rather than a race in the world that is Australian outline.
One must give credit to one of the producers who said that ‘he would neither confirm nor deny’ that he was working on a particular prototype after he’d accidentally dropped a vital clue to the RACE officials. Which left us thinking about the habit of producers to drop bombs and surprise us all.

One can’t help but think they enjoy it.


So the first ‘nuke’ we got since our last update was Southern Rail’s announcement back in May that they would be doing the Western Australian ‘L’ class diesel-electric locomotive, the first WA origin loco to be announced by anyone (Auscision and Southern Rail have already announced AC and DFZ locos but I don’t think anyone really thinks of them as originating in WA). SRM quickly moved to tell us that a second run was very likely given the huge number of colour schemes. This announcement trumped a very old ‘projects under development’ announcement by Trainorama many years ago, of which nothing has been heard for a very long time (2008 inf act). Our second big ‘nuke’ was of course Auscision’s recent 48 class announcement, the details provided indicating that this will be their biggest project to date, with multiple body versions, eleven colour schemes and 36 different numbers out of the 48 class alone. Add to this the 830 class, of which details have not yet been released, and the size of the project becomes truly gargantuan (so rarely get to use that in a sentence…).

Auscision have also dropped a few other hints on their Faceplant page over the last few months which depending on how you take these things could mean that they are planning to do the VR C class, 81’s, G’s, BL’s, NR’s, 49’s, 442’s, 2nd & 3rd series X class and even 44 class! Or, it could just be that these photos will be in a series of prototype photo books (the first of which, featuring photos from 2004 to 2014, is due to be released towards the end of this year). Take your pick, I guess. Or wait and see!
Looking back over the years and the way big announcements are made this doesn’t look like changing any time soon. There’s no doubt that the Australian outline scene has changed dramatically over the past decade and the next decade looks to be no different. It’s worth noting that since 2004 there have been 44 new release models arrive on our doorsteps. Prior to 2004? There were only been 21 since the release of the Lima 44 class in the early 1970’s! Think about that one for a minute. We still have about 46 models that have been announced but not yet released, some of which are of course quite close to arriving now.

What is one to do? Nowadays there are so many models being produced that unless one’s budget is absolutely massive, it is simply impossible to have it all. The choice is so varied, that as someone put it in an online discussion recently, the key for any modeller or collector is to have discipline with their purchases, perhaps based on a specific era and place. The RACE Officials admit that they have no idea what ‘discipline’ may mean, and are seeking advice on this bizarre term (they have purchased about thirty of those 44 releases).
Perhaps the answer is to just go with the flow. Or realise that patience is a virtue, and that if there is a particular prototype that you really want a model of, just remember that its almost certainly going to be done eventually!!

We will now be able to watch with interest the tiny WA market grow from its current size. The Queensland market is also eagerly awaiting its first RTR mass-produced loco (the 2300 class and who knows what else could be coming).
We expect the VR L class electric to be just the first of more Victorian electric models, with a whole range of suburban sets that plenty of people are hanging out for – Auscision even asked this question earlier this year, and the clear winner was the Victorian Railways ‘Taits’ and/or swingdoor sets (Trainbuilder are doing them in brass anyway, for those that can’t wait for someone to do them in plastic).

Interestingly, despite all of the recent bombshells, we have still made almost no progress in getting rid of items on our ‘missing’ list. Indeed, even thoughthe RACE Officials are privy to a couple of unannounced projects here and there, even these are still not going to make much headway into those things that haven’t been done or announced (but they will get rid of some, don’t panic).
So while we await the next bombshell to be dropped, we should probably have a look at what we know is actually going on – and believe me, this is no easier than it ever was.

Arrivals Last year (2013):
Southern Rail NSW U-boats (re-run)
Auscision NSW 422 class
On Track NSW 82 class
Auscision NSW 73 class
Southern Rail NSW Xplorer/Endeavour railcars **
Auscision Vic Walkers 280HP
Trainorama SA GM class
Bendigo Vic T class (re-run)
Auscision SA AN class
Minimodels NSW U-boats
Eureka Vic R class

Arrivals so far (2014):
Austrains Vic G class
Austrains SA 700 class (re-run)
Austrains NSW 442 class (re-run)
Austrains SA BL class
Austrains NSW 81 class
Roco Vic F class

2014
September:
Time running out fast

October:
A surprise from someone?

November:
Southern Rail VicV/Locity sets

December:
Auscision NSW 45 class
Auscision NSW 86 class
Trainorama NSW 48 class
Trainorama SA 830 class

2015
Early:
Auscision GT46C-ACe (LDP, TT, WH, GWA classes)
Auscision Vic L class electric
Austrains NR class(re-run w/NR18 +others)
Trainorama NSW 48 class (re-run, additional colour schemes originally planned for first run)
Trainorama SA 830 class (same story)
Austrains Vic T class (re-run)

Mid:
Auscision NSW 46 class
Eureka NSW D50 class
Bendigo Rail Vic P class
Shrike NSW C30T class

Late:
Southern Rail QLD 2300 class
Southern Rail WA DFZ class
Auscision NSW Tangara sets
Powerline NSW 81 class –re-run, new mechanism (a new total guess)
Powerline Vic G class –re-run, new mechanism
Powerline SA BL class –re-run, new mechanism
Eureka NSW 40 class
Eureka Vic K class
Railmotor Models SCT class
Auscision NSW XPT set
Auscision C43/C44ACi (AC, 93, 93, 6000, 6020, ACB, XRN, CF, GWU, CEY, 5020 classes!!)
Auscision Vic X class series 1
Auscision NSW 43 class

2016
Bendigo Rail Vic T class series I (re-run later colour schemes)
Powerline NSW 48 class (re-run, candy, John Holland?)
Southern Rail WA L class diesel
Eureka NSW C38 class (re-run)
Eureka NSW 620/720 railcars (re-run)
TrainOrama NSW 47 class (re-run)
Trainorama NSW 49 class (re-run)
Auscision NSW V set
Auscision NSW 421 class
Auscision NSW 48 class
Auscision SA 830 class
Southern Rail QLD 2000 class railmotors
Shrike SA Rx class
Eureka NSW D53 class

2017
Southern Rail WA L class(re-run, other colours)
Eureka NSW DEB set
Eureka NSW D59 class
Auscision CFCLA GL class
Railmotor CSR/BK class

2018 and BEYOND
TrainOrama NSW 45 class –will they still happen?
TrainOrama SA 600 class –possibly not
TrainOrama WA L class –now look rather unlikely
Minimodels NSW Tangara sets -another model that may not happen
Eureka NSW Silver City Comet
Eureka SMR 10 class
Eureka NSW D55 class
Eureka VR A2 class
Eureka VR N class
Eureka SAR 750 class
Eureka NSW C30 class
Eureka NSW D57class
Eureka NSW D58 class
_________________________________________________

Notes:

There’s an argument that could be made that the RACE is nothing less than the most sublime work of fiction ever produced since someone wrote an essay about Saddam Hussein’s “Dubya Emm Dee’s”.
Of course, if that’s true, then what does that say about the producers who write newsletters with various predictions of when their models are going to turn up? …oops. Best leave that one alone.

It’s worth noting that the Auscision C43/C44-ACi’s first samples appeared in September 2012 but we still haven’t even seen painted samples for them. Despite the silence from Auscision in this matter the RACE officials are willing to bet this is because they’re trying to organise the artwork for the most recent versions of these locos, namely the CF class 4412 ‘Black Caviar’, the two Freightliner liviered machines and the MRL class. We would expect these to be either announced shortly (like the SSR class GT46C-ACe’s) or to be part of a surprise addition when the others are finally released.


Southern Rail seems to have hit the big slow-down recently with the V/Locity progressing quickly this year (we were only shown CAD drawings late last year and the first painted samples appeared in August), but there does not seem to have been any progress on the QR 2300’s as yet.

As noted above, if Auscision are doing a number of previously ‘basix’ locos then the announced list could get a whole lot longer. TheRACE officials are also aware of a number of things in the pipeline that some of the other producers are working on, so there’s no doubt there’s a lot more excitement to come. Finally,we get to see what the newest RTR producer on the scene has in mind in just a few weeks, when Ixion reveal their planned NSWGR steam loco. It is something that has not previously been released, but that hardly narrows it down – the most popular guess currently the Z19 class.

We've now moved everything that looks to be yonks away into the 2018 and beyond section, 2017 looks a little sparse but don't worry; we're sure there's plenty to be announced that will fill the gap, plus a lot of what's currently in 2016 might well shift to 2017 anyway. Re the Auscision 48, we're presuming the first samples will be on display at Liverpool. Thats all well and fine, but that doesn't mean that they'll arrive next year. In fact we are confident that they won't; 2016 is far more likely.

That’s all from us here at the RACE for now, enjoy your collecting and remember;

“Duck, and cover!”
  Black_Ute Station Master

Location: Queanbeyan NSW
I too lack this 'discipline' you speak of and gave up years ago trying to limit myself to a particular era.  Generally speaking anything from post WWII to the present in NSW then I'm filing out the order form:P   ....oh and some Victorian and Commonwealth stuff because they came into NSW sometimes.....

The October edition of AMRM says Auscision "expect to have on show the first samples of a previously unannounced locomotive".

It can't be the 48/830 because they announce and discuss that model in the next paragraph.

Hope you're wrong about the XPT being in late 2015 as I thought they were due early 2015 but thinking about it we haven't seen any painted samples yet...
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

Thank you for providing your insight - great reading

While patience MAY reward a certainty that every conceivable piece of rolling stock will at some stage be produced, it would be interesting to see how the market will react to inflationary pricing pressure should/when the Chinese manufacturing process becomes more costly due to upward wage restructure

Marketplace resistance may limit this possibility

For sometime we have been spoilt with a stable and predictable pricing point on most products

I am sure that by the time that the Auscision 48 is released, $220 for a D/E loco will be incredibly cheap. Most will recall that this was Trainorama's EB price from 2008(?) - they have already added $100+ to theirs

This could be a golden era...
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
I am sure that by the time that the Auscision 48 is released, $220 for a D/E loco will be incredibly cheap. Most will recall that this was Trainorama's EB price from 2008(?) - they have already added $100+ to theirs
gw0071

can we have a source for this $320+ claimed price point?
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gold Coast QLD
I thought the GT46C-ACes were due November-December (the SSR class is supposedly due December)?
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
I thought the GT46C-ACes were due November-December (the SSR class is supposedly due December)?
GT46C-ACe

Yes, thats what I was told at Caulfield. It's still possible that they will - but the catch is that they told me that everything that they had painted samples for was due by the end of the year. Quite frankly I doubt that this will be possible, even if all of them are being produced in different factories.
Hence I've moved some of them to early next year.  I was told earlier that the 45 & 86 class were in production now, so they seemed far more likely to arrive by the end of December, indeed the 45's may even be here in November.

It would be nice to be wrong, but the other reason is because Auscision have never managed to go from painted sample to model arriving so quickly before this.

Cheers,

Toby
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Great update....
Love the 2018 & beyond section and how one manufacturer has dominance in that field.

Interesting to note that there will be other 'filler' announcements in there also that will add even more variety to that list.

Great thing about the future speculation like the Silver City Comet or D57/58 releases is that its been in the eternal pipeline that someone else is bound to come out with beforehand knowing all too well that this promised releases are just that - promises.
I can't see Trainorama doing the L or 45/600 now after the Auscision announcement....I think they will struggle with the 48's now.

Good luck to all manufacturers - in the end the consumer is the winner.
  a6et Minister for Railways

can we have a source for this $320+ claimed price point?
Poath Junction

More than anything else its inevitable.  I remember Auscision being one of the first to promote the idea of the $300.00 + model but caveated it with they will try to absorb as much as possible themselves. The PL 48 is already at $325.00 with Auscision models normal RRP at $295.00

Austrains Basix are at $245.00 with the others at $295.00,  Eureka 40cl at $330.00 after delivery (whenever that will be & depending on final costings)

IIRC the TOR 48 was originally going to be around the $280.00 mark after delivery.  What has helped keep prices down has been the high Oz$$ now that its on the slide & the 20% per annum wage increases for 5 years, first one this year & the next kicks in just prior to CNY on 19th Feb.

Those factors also lend weight that few if any models, especially new locomotives from China from next year will be under the $300.00 mark especially new ones. Watch also the prices of the R/S that has crept up in price, also Auscision has done that with the SA & XPT After delivery prices.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
I wonder if any of our model makers are moving or thinking of moving out of China?

Negatives being that China are already out there doing it and have the expertise to do it easier than a greenfield new start up.

Positives are of course that in the last 10 years China has not been the happiest place for importers to source their products.  Many an ulcer may be saved by getting the hell out of there.

I had heard that Structorama went to Vietnam because Chinese aid meant machinery was made available with expert managers and Engineers to help them get into the business. That was 12 years ago (approx) and nothing much is happening there yet.

4 Major Motor Companies are now set up in Thailand with plastic divisions and Educational Institutions in Thailand are now directing students into Engineering and other professions to service these industries.  These people are rapidly approaching graduation, and the growth in this expertise should flow on to other similar industries.
I would think that Model Railway Production should fit right in about now, and the first Aussie to jump might be set to skip the speed bumps of price acceptance here in Australia in the next few years as a6et alludes to.
Cheers
Rod Young
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
And just to add a little more...
wasn't the recent Industrial action in China at Sanda Kan started by the owners Bachman trying to force their Hong Kong team to move into mainland China and accept mainland salaries?
Didn't this escalate into a full factory strike which resulted in the workers being sacked and the factory closing down? (All production being moved to another factory 10 miles away)

These Hong Kong people would certainly be an asset if you started up in Thailand, and used their expertise to develop your models, I would think.....
Ahh!! the crystal ball is smeared. I used a dirty cloth to clean it Sad As usual I might be wrong Wink
Cheers
Rod
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Good luck to all manufacturers - in the end the consumer is the winner.
5711

Spoken like a true disciple of laissez faire capitalism.  Not entirely convinced that we would gain a lot, or anything, if many entrepreneurs are forced out of the game.  That is just me though. Laughing

Best regards,
John
  br30453 Chief Train Controller

Spoken like a true disciple of laissez faire capitalism. Not entirely convinced that we would gain a lot, or anything, if many entrepreneurs are forced out of the game. That is just me though. Laughing

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell

John,

You are not alone.
  naguoning Locomotive Driver

Location: At Escape 41, Kaohsiung, Taiwan!
And just to add a little more...
wasn't the recent Industrial action in China at Sanda Kan started by the owners Bachman trying to force their Hong Kong team to move into mainland China and accept mainland salaries?
Didn't this escalate into a full factory strike which resulted in the workers being sacked and the factory closing down? (All production being moved to another factory 10 miles away)
comtrain

Ummm NO, it wasn't. Kader wanted to move some MAINLAND CHINESE workers up the road (maybe 10 or 15 km I guess) to their factory in the ZhongTang district of DongGuan and close the plant they were working at. These were essentially mostly or all low end workers.
You might be getting confused with the strikes at San DaKan (aka ShanDaGen) some years ago instigated by HK engineers when it was taken over by JP Morgan and that idiot with an American MBA but questionable business accumen took to getting rid of the HK engineers to lower costs. This had NOTHING to do with Kader as it pre-dated their takeover a nd was perhaps the biggest single reason for them getting into the mess that ultimately resulted in the sale to Kader.
ZhongTang is at the more Northern side of DongGuan so it is not so close to HK, closer to GuangZhou.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
More than anything else its inevitable. I remember Auscision being one of the first to promote the idea of the $300.00 + model but caveated it with they will try to absorb as much as possible themselves. The PL 48 is already at $325.00 with Auscision models normal RRP at $295.00
a6et

AussieHO and Austrains crossed the $300 mark in late 2011 - AussieHO quoting $340 for their QR 1502's and Austrains with $330 VR T & P class. History has shown AussieHO was just a fraud so we'll just stick with Austrains which had $300 for fully paid pre-orders or $330 for deposit & after delivery orders. History has also shown the Austrains T & P never made it to production.

I had queried the $320 pricepoint noted for TOR 48's as it hasn't been mentioned publically by TOR - it's been quite some time since TOR gave an after delivery ballpark figure and the recent Auscision announcement is more than likely going to have TOR re-examining any guesstimates they'd previously arrived at. Until TOR do release a $ figure publically it's best not to make any pricepoint statements that could be misinterpreted or worse still reposted on other social networks as 'facts' (as too often happens).

edit: The Eureka 40 was advertised in 2008 as 'expected $295 after delivery', in early 2013 this was changed to '$295 after delivery.' and later in 2013 became $330 after delivery. So Austrains wins the first advertised diesel to retail over $300, and Powerline wins the first to make it to retail sale at over $300.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Ummm NO, it wasn't. Kader wanted to move some MAINLAND CHINESE workers up the road (maybe 10 or 15 km I guess) to their factory in the ZhongTang district of DongGuan and close the plant they were working at. These were essentially mostly or all low end workers.
You might be getting confused with the strikes at San DaKan (aka ShanDaGen) some years ago instigated by HK engineers when it was taken over by JP Morgan and that idiot with an American MBA but questionable business accumen took to getting rid of the HK engineers to lower costs. This had NOTHING to do with Kader as it pre-dated their takeover a nd was perhaps the biggest single reason for them getting into the mess that ultimately resulted in the sale to Kader.
ZhongTang is at the more Northern side of DongGuan so it is not so close to HK, closer to GuangZhou.
naguoning

I base my information on what John Eassie actually told me at a recent Exhibition and after hearing that I did a search and read at least 4 articles from the press and the union movement. unfortunately Google finds none of these today.

Isn't Kader the Hong Kong based Holding Company for Bachmann?

And isn't Bachmann using the SandaKan group of factories? They did report when they purchased SandaKan that it was closing out most of their customers in order to increase Bachmann operations at home and for export. I based my presumptions on the Bachmann arm managing the SandaKan factories.


I believe the 2014 Strike by the factory workers was caused by broken promises, and one of those was a pay rise to return to the factory on time after the New Year holiday, and the other was that returning employees expected the reimbursement of travel expenses for their holiday. Another incentive they always got from this company, or at least previous owners.

But I guess if I got it wrong then I stand corrected Smile However (there is always a "however")

Slightly irrelevant but just goes to prove the manufacturers are not telling all, or just dont know all?
Quote
In July 2014 Austrains posted in News...


What happened in China?
The 81 / G / BL: In January we began contacting customers who had ordered locos from the 81 / G / BL project. At
the time things were going along nicely and the first of the expected product arrived by airfreight in late January in
time for the Corio exhibition. This shipment consisted of three variations only ( 2 x Freight Australia and VR Blue
G220). The factory then closed down for Chinese New Year holiday. We had been given a shipping schedule which
would have seen all product arrive by mid-May. The factory went back to work after Chinese New Year for
approximately thirteen days. Around the second week in March we were advised that there had been an ‘incident’ at
the factory and that there would be a slight delay in production. The ‘incident’ turned out to be a full blown
occupation of the factory by up to one thousand workers depending on what source you believe. The occupation lasted
fifty days and was finally broken by the police who, apparently, physically evicted the striking workers and arrested
the ring leaders. The first we heard that the strike was broken was when we received a call from our freight forwarder
telling us that a pallet of G class which had been stuck in the factory for seven weeks was on its way from China to
Hong Kong airport. This was followed by another pallet booked for sea freight.
The parent company acted quickly and immediately began closing the factory and moving all partly completed
product, tooling and production equipment to another of their production facilities.


In March 2014


Production problems. As most of you will be aware there have been major difficulties with some of the factories in China who produce model railway equipment. Unfortunately the factory making the 81/G /BL project is one of those. Three changes of ownership over the past eight years has resulted in many changes of policy. Where once we were able to have short runs of many different liveries this is no longer the case with two of our three suppliers. As a result the factory informed us in early January that they were limiting the number liveries and numbers they would do and asked us to nominate those liveries we wished to drop. A commercial descision had to be made and we nominated those liveries for which we had least orders. At the same time the factory told us that, for various reasons some numbers would be changed and some variations we still wanted would not be done. We have been requested to place a new order for a second production run very late 2014 but the factory will still not guarantee that we will get everything we want. So while we are still getting the same volume of stock the variants are now reduced. We apologise to those whose choice of models has been restricted. This was totally beyond our control and, like many things which are happening with Chinese manufacturers right now, completely unforeseen. The revised order form shows what locos will be available in the first shipments. If we need to change locos we will contact you. If a change is necessary you will be contacted.
6: Strike against plan to relocate factory at Sandakan Industrial and protest against police brutality in Dongguan, Guangdong
End of quotes


Rod Young
  naguoning Locomotive Driver

Location: At Escape 41, Kaohsiung, Taiwan!
I base my information on what John Eassie actually told me at a recent Exhibition and after hearing that I did a search and read at least 4 articles from the press and the union movement. unfortunately Google finds none of these today.

Isn't Kader the Hong Kong based Holding Company for Bachmann?

And isn't Bachmann using the SandaKan group of factories? They did report when they purchased SandaKan that it was closing out most of their customers in order to increase Bachmann operations at home and for export. I based my presumptions on the Bachmann arm managing the SandaKan factories.


I believe the 2014 Strike by the factory workers was caused by broken promises, and one of those was a pay rise to return to the factory on time after the New Year holiday, and the other was that returning employees expected the reimbursement of travel expenses for their holiday. Another incentive they always got from this company, or at least previous owners.

But I guess if I got it wrong then I stand corrected Smile However (there is always a "however")

Slightly irrelevant but just goes to prove the manufacturers are not telling all, or just dont know all?
Quote
In July 2014 Austrains posted in News...


What happened in China?
The 81 / G / BL: In January we began contacting customers who had ordered locos from the 81 / G / BL project. At
the time things were going along nicely and the first of the expected product arrived by airfreight in late January in
time for the Corio exhibition. This shipment consisted of three variations only ( 2 x Freight Australia and VR Blue
G220). The factory then closed down for Chinese New Year holiday. We had been given a shipping schedule which
would have seen all product arrive by mid-May. The factory went back to work after Chinese New Year for
approximately thirteen days. Around the second week in March we were advised that there had been an ‘incident’ at
the factory and that there would be a slight delay in production. The ‘incident’ turned out to be a full blown
occupation of the factory by up to one thousand workers depending on what source you believe. The occupation lasted
fifty days and was finally broken by the police who, apparently, physically evicted the striking workers and arrested
the ring leaders. The first we heard that the strike was broken was when we received a call from our freight forwarder
telling us that a pallet of G class which had been stuck in the factory for seven weeks was on its way from China to
Hong Kong airport. This was followed by another pallet booked for sea freight.
The parent company acted quickly and immediately began closing the factory and moving all partly completed
product, tooling and production equipment to another of their production facilities.


In March 2014


Production problems. As most of you will be aware there have been major difficulties with some of the factories in China who produce model railway equipment. Unfortunately the factory making the 81/G /BL project is one of those. Three changes of ownership over the past eight years has resulted in many changes of policy. Where once we were able to have short runs of many different liveries this is no longer the case with two of our three suppliers. As a result the factory informed us in early January that they were limiting the number liveries and numbers they would do and asked us to nominate those liveries we wished to drop. A commercial descision had to be made and we nominated those liveries for which we had least orders. At the same time the factory told us that, for various reasons some numbers would be changed and some variations we still wanted would not be done. We have been requested to place a new order for a second production run very late 2014 but the factory will still not guarantee that we will get everything we want. So while we are still getting the same volume of stock the variants are now reduced. We apologise to those whose choice of models has been restricted. This was totally beyond our control and, like many things which are happening with Chinese manufacturers right now, completely unforeseen. The revised order form shows what locos will be available in the first shipments. If we need to change locos we will contact you. If a change is necessary you will be contacted.
6: Strike against plan to relocate factory at Sandakan Industrial and protest against police brutality in Dongguan, Guangdong
End of quotes


Rod Young
comtrain

Yes, Kader is the parent company of Bachmann. But where did you get the idea they tried to move their HK team to the mainland at mainland salary??? I refute that idea completely and stand by all of my comments here. I have been to their HK office, ZhongTang factory etc too so it is not just something I am making up.

The recent factory worker strikes were completely separate to the ones a few years ago (which I presumed were the ones you were thinking of as they involved HK engineers instigating them and were pre-Kader ownership).

To the best off my knowledge no Bachmann labled product was ever produced in the Shandagen factories.

I have seen conflicting reports as to the reason behind the strike but certainly I remember them as being mostly about objecting to move the location (these were maybe not English language reports, I can't remember).
  a6et Minister for Railways

Yes, Kader is the parent company of Bachmann. But where did you get the idea they tried to move their HK team to the mainland at mainland salary??? I refute that idea completely and stand by all of my comments here. I have been to their HK office, ZhongTang factory etc too so it is not just something I am making up.

The recent factory worker strikes were completely separate to the ones a few years ago (which I presumed were the ones you were thinking of as they involved HK engineers instigating them and were pre-Kader ownership).

To the best off my knowledge no Bachmann labled product was ever produced in the Shandagen factories.

I have seen conflicting reports as to the reason behind the strike but certainly I remember them as being mostly about objecting to move the location (these were maybe not English language reports, I can't remember).
naguoning

The initial reports that came out here, were basically in 3 stages & for some reason the 2nd report that was posted on the Austrains web is no longer available.  Not surprising in some ways as when an update has been published in the past & then superceded it is no longer available, same as some others.

The report also was found on a Chinese base page which again is no longer available, & that one was a HK based news report, also not surprising as China has a good record of removing news archives that have other than the official line.

What is found on the March 2014 news that Rod has posted is the initial news that gave an update on a brief early news release (still available on the Austrains site but says there were some delays)  Likewise the July report is the current news, but there was another one in the middle.  That report told of the strike by the company workers, it included the main factory workers & a mention that it included some engineers as well.

The newspapre report that was published via a link verified the main factory stribke but also mentioned that several senior engineers that were residents of Hong Kong were also involved as the new company policy & conditions of employment that included the move from the then factory to the new one 10 miles away was also given to these engineers.  The big part of that offer was that they accept new wages paid in RMB & in accord with standard mainland Chinese rates as against the higher wages paid to residents of Hong Kong.  

The engineers in the report had rejected the offer as they & their familes were settled in HK, were HK residents & the new lower RMB wages were too low for them to continue to live in HK. There was a minor mention also of the added distance in driving for them as well, a further burden on their wages.

This news, was certainly more than what was found on the Austrains site though.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Yes, Kader is the parent company of Bachmann. But where did you get the idea they tried to move their HK team to the mainland at mainland salary??? I refute that idea completely and stand by all of my comments here. I have been to their HK office, ZhongTang factory etc too so it is not just something I am making up.

The recent factory worker strikes were completely separate to the ones a few years ago (which I presumed were the ones you were thinking of as they involved HK engineers instigating them and were pre-Kader ownership).

To the best off my knowledge no Bachmann labled product was ever produced in the Shandagen factories.

I have seen conflicting reports as to the reason behind the strike but certainly I remember them as being mostly about objecting to move the location (these were maybe not English language reports, I can't remember).
naguoning


It's great that you are on the ground (so to speak) Smile Everything we hear is third hand here, and because the English translations do not stay with google, can make things more difficult.

Our manufacturers are usually closed mouthed, and I suspect use some of us to spread "their version of the truth" But they are really the only ones that visit the Country and deal with management.

It is interesting that you show a different picture though, and look forward to future conversations. I hope you do stick around and comment a lot, I am certain a person with great English and local knowledge would be invaluable to those that are interested in the way things work for our importers and China in general.
I guess you noticed that models promised and paid for in 2006 have only just arrived in Australia?
That other product is still to arrive? And that quality of some models is now so bad, that people are keeping their wallets closed?
Cheers
Rod Young
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

I enjoy and appreciate this speculation as much as the next train freak - my belief is that despite what/how/when happened in China there's every likelihood that our current/future expectations being met will deviate due to,

1. A reduction of competition due to the fall of certain importers implicated by the above
2. Significant increases in pricing due to a) Chinese inflationary pressure and b) point 1
3. All of the above

I get the distinct feeling that I should appreciate and utilise this current phase because despite the apparent rosiness, I predict a medium term change

The fact that this market perpetuates is evidence that the majority of us are cashed-up, but the question is what is our 'pricepoint' cue for abstaining?

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.