CRC 2-26 as a lubricant

 
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
G'day Linton,

Mate....you may as well give up I reckon!!!

Whilst I agree with you 100% about the real-world proof that that stuff works, you will simply NEVER EVER convince these two boffins who know EVERYTHING.....hahaha.

They will always be right and the rest of us mere mortals will always be wrong.

If I can be bothered to get my A into G over the weekend, I will take a photo of my latest (only?) electronics project......which will give Mr Milktrain and Mr Aaron something to really criticise and/or have a heart attack over!!!

Roachie
"Roachie"


I know Roachie. I just can't stand arrogant people.

Let's move onto to WD 40! How good does it smell ha ha.

Linton

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  bjviper Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisvegas
Now where's some marshmellows Laughing



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwjdC2rdnlE
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Good for the old Arthritis as well WD40 or so it is claimed anyway!
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Mr Peters
Grovelling apologies for getting your name wrong. Not sure where the reference to NZ politics came from. Will buy you a beer in heaven.
The railway dog

No problems anyone who buys me a beer is a friend for life! Laughing
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
G'day Linton,

Mate....you may as well give up I reckon!!!

Whilst I agree with you 100% about the real-world proof that that stuff works, you will simply NEVER EVER convince these two boffins who know EVERYTHING.....hahaha.

They will always be right and the rest of us mere mortals will always be wrong.

If I can be bothered to get my A into G over the weekend, I will take a photo of my latest (only?) electronics project......which will give Mr Milktrain and Mr Aaron something to really criticise and/or have a heart attack over!!!

Roachie
Roachie

Years ago about 30 or more now I was told about Wahl oil for hair clippers. I thought to myself at the time that it was a load of B.S. but seeing it used by others that had flawless running of the same models I had without major additions to pick ups made me think a bit about it We all had clean wheels as well. So in the end I got some Wahl oil and tried it out for myself and found that if used sparingly like I was shown it does work. For all intents and purposes it should not though as any oil on the track or wheels of locomotives should make it run erractically but it does not do this if anything it makes it better. So the proof of the pudding is in the eating really on things like this.

Best advice I could give about things like this is to actually use it as stipulated and find out for yourself, you might get a shock at some things not designed for the purpose actually working! You can all argue till the cows come home, but those that use it have proof that it does indeed work though! I trust experts about as much as lawyers or used car salesmen at the best of times!
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Now where's some marshmellows Laughing



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwjdC2rdnlE
"bjviper"






Yes! Burning marshmallows and burning WD40. Nothing better ha ha. This is what I use to solder brass kits together. You just prop all the pieces together, add some solder paste and blast the crap out of it with a WD40 flame thrower. Jobs done - just not very well though!

Linton
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Years ago about 30 or more now I was told about Wahl oil for hair clippers. I thought to myself at the time that it was a load of B.S. but seeing it used by others that had flawless running of the same models I had without major additions to pick ups made me think a bit about it We all had clean wheels as well. So in the end I got some Wahl oil and tried it out for myself and found that if used sparingly like I was shown it does work. For all intents and purposes it should not though as any oil on the track or wheels of locomotives should make it run erractically but it does not do this if anything it makes it better. So the proof of the pudding is in the eating really on things like this.

Best advice I could give about things like this is to actually use it as stipulated and find out for yourself, you might get a shock at some things not designed for the purpose actually working! You can all argue till the cows come home, but those that use it have proof that it does indeed work though! I trust experts about as much as lawyers or used car salesmen at the best of times!
"David Peters"



I only mentioned the stuff because I thought some people may find it interesting. Instantly it turns into a stupid conversation, crazy. I can simply not believe how fast this product was dismissed without any knowledge. I could not care less if somebody wants to use it or not. It was for information only, not an avenue for someone to stroke their own ego.

Linton
  miktrain Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide SA
Mate....you may as well give up I reckon!!!

Whilst I agree with you 100% about the real-world proof that that stuff works, you will simply NEVER EVER convince these two boffins who know EVERYTHING.....hahaha.

They will always be right and the rest of us mere mortals will always be wrong.
Roachie

That's a bit rough Roachie, I, and I'm sure Aaron, have never claimed to know everything, in fact I would be the first to tell everyone that I'm always learning; it's a big wide world out there. I just don't like urban myths and old wives tales being being touted as fact.

Tony
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
From the blurb

Stabilant 22 is an initially non-conductive block polymer which when used in a thin film between metal contacts becomes conductive under the effect of an electrical field.


So it is non conductive until a current flows - simply not possible, non conductive means NO current/electrical field




Tony
miktrain

Do you mean these wives tales and urban myths? I don't mean to be rude but the only person touting rubbish as fact in this case is you, completely off the hip. When I mentioned a capacitor as an example of how this very thing does happen, (I knew this would start you off) you went and proved to yourself that current can flow through something that's non conductive, just to prove me wrong. Please remember the dielectric in a capacitor is an insulator. This was a complete reversal in thinking from the statement above.

This is a definition of a know it all;

A know-it-all or know-all is a person who obnoxiously purports an expansive comprehension of a topic and/or situation when in reality, his/her comprehension is inaccurate or limited.

In the Stabilant case, this is what you did and I perceived you as fitting the above description. I don't know if its just me you like to do this to, remember the KA2 K/A series capacitor value knee jerk response, however it does seem this way to me and others that I speak to.

Me mentioning the Stabilant product was to simply inform people of its presence and tell you about the results me and many other Avionics Engineers have been seeing. I was even more surprised to read further into it and see that model trains got a mention. When an aircraft OEM specifies a product to be used on an aircraft we generally don't second guess it. These companies are packed full of very bright people, something that you should feel happy about when you fly.

I was simply taken back a bit by somebody, who really has no experience or thorough understanding to make such statements.

I doubt many would ever touch the stuff as its not cheap however those that do may see results.

This is the last time I will mention the stuff. You are entitled to your own opinion Mr Mikolaj, I  respect that as long as its reasonable.

Linton
  miktrain Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide SA
Do you mean these wives tales and urban myths? I don't mean to be rude but the only person touting rubbish as fact in this case is you, completely off the hip. When I mentioned a capacitor as an example of how this very thing does happen, (I knew this would start you off) you went and proved to yourself that current can flow through something that's non conductive
linton78

But a cap only lets current flow while there is a difference in potential between the plates (not counting the minute leakage) once charged then it blocks it so your light-bulb, motor or whatever will not be getting any power. It has to be a changing potential ie AC or have a ripple on the supply.

Tony
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
But a cap only lets current flow while there is a difference in potential between the plates (not counting the minute leakage) once charged then it blocks it so your light-bulb, motor or whatever will not be getting any power. It has to be a changing potential ie AC or have a ripple on the supply.

Tony
miktrain

Really.... when the Stabilant is sandwiched between two contacts, thus is in series with a load, an electric field is most likely produced similar to what happens with a capacitor (this is what you said cannot happen). In the Stabilants case it then becomes conductive, this aids the already conductive contact to conduct electricity. How that change from insulator to conductor happens is anyone's guess. I imagine they have designed it this way so that you can apply it to a multi pin connector, without adjacent pin conductivity issues. I wont tell you again, because you just wont believe it, it just works.

The potential across a cap when fully charged is supply voltage, this is its greatest potential difference, look at the graphs again. This is why it can be said that electron current flow does not occur through the dielectric. Maybe I have miss interpreted what you have said above? Yes when a capacitor is fully charged in series no circuit current is present.

This is where the Stabilant and capacitor are different. As the Stabilant moves into a conductive state from its initial field exposure, current flows and continues to do so. You also have to remember this product is to be used on already conductive surfaces. Like I said 1000 posts ago it fills tiny irregularities in the contact surface with a conductive material to aid in the conduction of electrons.

If you think its all tales and gimmicks don't trouble yourself with it, or go and buy some, or talk to some one else that uses it.

I was thinking before that you would be a really hard guy to work with;

Me - "Hey Tony, before you put that connector on you need to apply Stabilant, IAW the maintenance manual".

Tony - " Stabilant! That stuff doesn't work, what would the people that designed this thing know".

I reckon we would have a few 'I know better' procedure violations ha ha.

Cant keep writing Home and Away scripts. I need to paint a 57 class.

Linton
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I only mentioned the stuff because I thought some people may find it interesting. Instantly it turns into a stupid conversation, crazy. I can simply not believe how fast this product was dismissed without any knowledge. I could not care less if somebody wants to use it or not. It was for information only, not an avenue for someone to stroke their own ego.

Linton
linton78

Linton I was not having a go at you just pointing out that if a person recommends a product like you did then test it out yourself and if it does work then well and good. That is what happened to me with the Wahl oil, I figured out that if it did not work then all I was out was a couple of dollars for a tin as opposed to some similar stuff that local hobby shops sold as a combination track cleaner and smoke liquid. This stuff used to come in a bottle with a steam loco drawing in red on the side of it, it is still made but getting more expensive all the time! So I tried it and it worked and I have used it ever since with no problems at all except for cheap Lima traction tyres as purchased with them, replace them with good quality traction tyres from Marklin or similar and no problems at all really!


Never dismiss something like this as it just might be what you are looking for to do the job you want it to do!
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Linton I was not having a go at you just pointing out that if a person recommends a product like you did then test it out yourself and if it does work then well and good. That is what happened to me with the Wahl oil, I figured out that if it did not work then all I was out was a couple of dollars for a tin as opposed to some similar stuff that local hobby shops sold as a combination track cleaner and smoke liquid. This stuff used to come in a bottle with a steam loco drawing in red on the side of it, it is still made but getting more expensive all the time! So I tried it and it worked and I have used it ever since with no problems at all except for cheap Lima traction tyres as purchased with them, replace them with good quality traction tyres from Marklin or similar and no problems at all really!


Never dismiss something like this as it just might be what you are looking for to do the job you want it to do!
"David Peters"


Hi David,

I know you weren't having a go at me, no problem at all.  I was just venting my amazement.

I cant believe how in depth everything gets, every time.

Linton
  prewett Junior Train Controller

Location: Albury, NSW
The last thing I would put close to electrical connections is Silicon, it is an insulator.

Ask Westinghouse in USA they have banned its use including floor cleaners as it caused major problems, also banned in use in the old mechanical exchanges, when working I had problems with equipment and deep cleaning had to be carried out on equipment before they operated correctly.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
The last thing I would put close to electrical connections is Silicon, it is an insulator.
prewett

Actually it is, in its pure metallic form, a semiconductor. Silicone on the other hand......
  miktrain Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide SA
In the Stabilants case it then becomes conductive, this aids the already conductive contact to conduct electricity. How that change from insulator to conductor happens is anyone's guess. I imagine they have designed it this way so that you can apply it to a multi pin connector, without adjacent pin conductivity issues...

...This is where the Stabilant and capacitor are different. As the Stabilant moves into a conductive state from its initial field exposure, current flows and continues to do so. You also have to remember this product is to be used on already conductive surfaces. Like I said 1000 posts ago it fills tiny irregularities in the contact surface with a conductive material to aid in the conduction of electrons.
linton78

So when it is used in a multi pin joint how does the electrical field between adjacent pins not make it "go conductive" and therefore short out the pins?

If you read my posts you will see that I never said it does not work only that I don't believe it works how they claim (They are an American company after all) Every review etc on the net is just a direct copy of the manufacturers blurb which is obviously good marketing.

My belief is that it is basically just a dielectric lubricating grease that prevents assembly damage and keeps the contact like new by stopping contaminants from entering the joint.

Tony
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
So when it is used in a multi pin joint how does the electrical field between adjacent pins not make it "go conductive" and therefore short out the pins?

If you read my posts you will see that I never said it does not work only that I don't believe it works how they claim (They are an American company after all) Every review etc on the net is just a direct copy of the manufacturers blurb which is obviously good marketing.

My belief is that it is basically just a dielectric lubricating grease that prevents assembly damage and keeps the contact like new by stopping contaminants from entering the joint.

Tony
"miktrain"


Mate, would you leave me alone, go and bug somebody else. Write to one of the aircraft manufactures and ask them yourself. Make sure you use the correct terminology though - 'Joint' is not a common term for connector. I have told you all I know about it and I don't care what you think about it anymore! Grease! Ha ha.

You didn't look to far for further reading - http://ralaudio.com/stabilant-22-contact-enhancer-m-2.html?info=stbrv000

In the nicest possible way,

Linton
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This whole thread reminds me of the myth of the "bumblbees cannot fly"

https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/~ben/zetie1.htm sums it up well

To me it all ends wit the fact for most people, at home with their own model railway, the owner is 100% in chrage. They can do what they like, and also fail as they might. They can model what they like, use what they like etc. And they can tell people what they find good and bad.

We, on the receiving end can decide for ourselves. But as we see facts can be scientifically challanged, and 'in use' challanged. Who is right? Well if you try something, and it works, you are once again in charge of your model railway. If not you will know all too well.

Sometimes people have to learn for themselves. And to many we hate seeing someone stuff up so we try to various degrees to intervene.
Often we want people to learn from new mistakes, not some we have done before.

Note as to the subject actually discussed, not brave to enter, nor do I wish to.

Regards,
David Head
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Very true David.

I only threw this out there for people to know of its existence. It works for us, apparently NASA and other medical industry. I don't think these people would wage trialling by mistake. These industries would not waste money, weight or lives on this stuff if it were not for good reason. That is a fact.

Take it or leave thats up to everyone. I have always said that.

I have edited this post as I was a bit harsh. Simply writing something off, with a level of knowledge that does not fit is stupid. I can see that Tony is interested in electronics going by his club website (some good articles there), however there are some actual people out there, that are very clever. I hope that they have assessed it properly as I spend a lot of time flying.

The earth was once flat you know.

Good times,

Linton
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Wahl clipper oil probably had the same thing happen to it when someone suggested using it on your model railway tracks years back when it was first tried. The oil is actually a lubricant for hair clippers but it does work if used the proper way on your model train layout. Lots of things that were not designed to be used on other things now are common place, I have surgical scalpels as model knifes and surgical clamp's for holding things as well both designed for surgeons to use operating on a human body but they do work for other things though. The list if ever made up would probably be a long one as well.
  miktrain Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide SA
You didn't look to far for further reading - http://ralaudio.com/stabilant-22-contact-enhancer-m-2.html?info=stbrv000
linton78


Does he use OFC monster cables too?

Tony
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
David a surgical scalpel is designed to cut... You are still using it to cut. Are you suggesting a veterinarian is using a scalpel for an unintended purpose? What we are talking about is about the equivalent of you using your scalpel to dig holes in the ground... Sure, a scalpel will make a hole in the ground, but even you would have to concede it's unlikely to be meaningfully effective, and that there are better ways...
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
David a surgical scalpel is designed to cut... You are still using it to cut. Are you suggesting a veterinarian is using a scalpel for an unintended purpose? What we are talking about is about the equivalent of you using your scalpel to dig holes in the ground... Sure, a scalpel will make a hole in the ground, but even you would have to concede it's unlikely to be meaningfully effective, and that there are better ways...
Aaron

Yes I should have included vets in that as I know one, but what I am saying they might be designed to cut, but not things like plastic etc which is a lot harder than skin etc. You never mentioned surgical clamps either you are getting Lax!

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