Victorian N Class locomotives now equipped with ICE

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Besides the N Class locomotives which are on SG and ICE equipped, there are now 3 BG locomotives from the class installed with ICE.

SG

N473
N464
N463

BG

N458
N456
N451

Announcements of additional BG locomotive installations can be posted here.

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  raymond Deputy Commissioner

Location: Gladstone, Queensland
What is ICE in Victoria,in Qld it is Intercity Express?




RAYMOND
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
In-Cab Communications Equipment.

http://www.base2.com.au/Mobile-Communications/ice-radio.html
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Why would Victoria want to add locomotives to the 4trak system when they are not using ARTC track ?
  steven_h Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Really good question.

Noted that there's a whole lot of V/Locities on it also.
  narf120 Locomotive Driver

ICE accross the V/Line fleet is one more small step towards a rail system that can operate nation wide, eg everyone is using the one radio system.
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

VL 09 &  3 VL 52 onwards have ICE radio, old system being phased out, there was a state wide upgrade of old equipment earlier this year, and a move effective. 5 December 2014 to new Channels.

Old network being progressively phased out.

On ARTC teriitory old network has been turned off ,  no ICE no run.

Several heritage operators will face extensive expense across the country ,  for the installation on their mainline fleets.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
Why would Victoria want to add locomotives to the 4trak system when they are not using ARTC track ?
freightgate


Because one day or another the need will arise for a Vline loco to run on ARTC tracks, like the Albury passes currently do seven days per week. And just because the Albury N class pool is currently 463, 464 and 473 doesn't mean it'll stay like that forever (remember that none of the original N's are on it any more). Having a uniform fleet would have the advantage of being able to simply gauge convert a loco if needed and not have to worry about also fitting a new radio to it.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
How do we know the 4trak system is the best way forward ?

Just because ARTC thinks so does not mean it is the best system.

Are the vlocity dmu's on ice being managed in the same ARTC system or a different system ?
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
How do we know the 4trak system is the best way forward ?

Just because ARTC thinks so does not mean it is the best system.

Are the vlocity dmu's on ice being managed in the same ARTC system or a different system ?
freightgate
Are you suggesting that instead of adopting a tried and tested and de-facto standard communications system, Victoria should adopt something non-standard and custom-built?

Isn't that what we did with Myki?

That's sure going to go down well with the financiers, the unions, anyone with a memory stretching longer than four years, the taxpayers, etc etc...
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
I am asking if anyone outside of ARTC has reviewed the 4trak system and made a decision on the best way forward for Victoria and other jurisdictions.

Are ARTC the experts ?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Going on their adoption of the system, it would seem that V/Line has reviewed it and made a decision that it is the best way forward for Victoria.
  Michelle12 Moderator Photo Overlord

Location: Melbourne
Updated list of the Ns now fitted with ICE

SG

N473
N464
N463

BG

N458
N456
N453
N451
  M636C Minister for Railways

I am asking if anyone outside of ARTC has reviewed the 4trak system and made a decision on the best way forward for Victoria and other jurisdictions.

Are ARTC the experts ?
freightgate

While 4Trak is a reporting system that uses data from the ICE communication system, the ICE system has many other aspects (including voice, of course) besides the reporting system.

Many readers here would be familiar with CFCLA loco FL220.  When it was rebuilt in 1980, the new air intake system blocked off a walkway that had extended down the left side of the locomotive from the no 1 end cab. I recall climbing into the cab, many years ago, and noticed that someone had cleverly put the former walkway to use. There was a rack of radios five or six high completely filling the doorway.

Anyone who thinks that that sort of radio fit is good use of space, time and money is free to do so, but that is what the ICE system was supposed to eliminate...

Even if it isn't the very best, it is available and works well enough. Does anyone here want to pay for the design and development of a complete system on the chance that it will be better?

M636C
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
And here was I thinking that ICE was a drug... Smile

Are the ICE radios digital or analogue? If analogue they'll have to be replaced in the reasonably short term as manufacturers stop building analogue gear. Spare parts will no longer be available. I have heard that some radios are easily converted to digital, perhaps that is the case here.
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
They're digital. Says so in that spec sheet I linked to.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
They're digital. Says so in that spec sheet I linked to.
michaelgreenhill

Thanks Michael. I hadn't looked back up there.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
How do we know the 4trak system is the best way forward ?

Just because ARTC thinks so does not mean it is the best system.

Are the vlocity dmu's on ice being managed in the same ARTC system or a different system ?
"freightgate"


It might not be, but it has virtually become the national standard. Since V/Line operate some locos and DMUs on the ARTC network it makes sense to have the entire fleet the same.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
This might be off topic slightly, but if ARTC tracks require ICE radio, does this affect the Dual Guage track section between North Geelong C and Gheringhap? Who currently has responsibility for this section?
  steven_h Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Another note: it seems that all BG units switch off their transponder when they leave the vicinity of SG tracks? i.e. veer away from the ARTC network, regardless if they were 'on' it or not.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Why would Victoria want to add locomotives to the 4trak system when they are not using ARTC track ?
freightgate


It appears VLine is rotating those N class loco's that have been updated (including having D77 motors fitted) through SG, ie NO N class loco currently will be on SG permanently. I assume this is being done to prevent the SG fleet being down a machine when major maintenece is required.

woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I am asking if anyone outside of ARTC has reviewed the 4trak system and made a decision on the best way forward for Victoria and other jurisdictions.

Are ARTC the experts ?
freightgate


I have now met some of the ARTC management (including John Fullerton to talk to twice) and engineering staff a good number of times now and these people are no fools, They are restricted on what they can do though by a government thats completely lost the plot.

While I have not talked much with any VLIne management, much discussion though with VLine staff give one the impression that they are also switched on.

woodford
  CountryRailer Beginner

I am asking if anyone outside of ARTC has reviewed the 4trak system and made a decision on the best way forward for Victoria and other jurisdictions.

Are ARTC the experts ?
"freightgate"


There is a confusion between ICE and 4Trak here.

4Trak is a tracking system (like the old public TLS was) made by a company called 4Tel. It is not part of the radio system. 4Trak could also display CountryNet (legacy radio system) equipped locos in NSW, nothing to do with ICE.

ICE (NTCS) is the communication system, including the equipment on the train, the radio networks, and the interface for the controller to talk to and send text messages to the train. It is sold by Base2 (as linked in data sheet above).

Now V/Line has also bought ICE for their BG fleet, it is separate to the ARTC ICE system, but there is some allowance for intercommunication between the ICE systems for safety reasons (could use BG ICE on VLocity to call an ARTC controller, in an event like a Chiltern incident where a train fouls another operators track).
  M636C Minister for Railways

There is a confusion between ICE and 4Trak here.

4Trak is a tracking system (like the old public TLS was) made by a company called 4Tel. It is not part of the radio system. 4Trak could also display CountryNet (legacy radio system) equipped locos in NSW, nothing to do with ICE.

ICE (NTCS) is the communication system, including the equipment on the train, the radio networks, and the interface for the controller to talk to and send text messages to the train. It is sold by Base2 (as linked in data sheet above).

Now V/Line has also bought ICE for their BG fleet, it is separate to the ARTC ICE system, but there is some allowance for intercommunication between the ICE systems for safety reasons (could use BG ICE on VLocity to call an ARTC controller, in an event like a Chiltern incident where a train fouls another operators track).
CountryRailer

I said pretty much the same thing eight posts back...

Some people understand but clearly others don't.

M636C
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I said pretty much the same thing eight posts back...

Some people understand but clearly others don't.

M636C
M636C

Thank you both for the posting.  The 4Tel build system includes the server at the ARTC end and the JAVA based client.  The server is all JAVA based.

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