Auscision Models Blog

 
  a6et Minister for Railways

What's the attraction with 4634 (46-9) as it's sold out?

It's a wonder they didn't make the 46 prototype, The Brick.

I note that 4620 (46-6) is also on the list.

And why were the buffers removed on some?
Newcastle Express

4601 - 04 had buffers removed from #2 end in order to work Indian Pacific with leading cars not compatible with buffered loco's.  The small foot stand over the buffers however were retained to assist in MU coupling when on other workings.

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  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

What's the attraction with 4634 (46-9) as it's sold out?

It's a wonder they didn't make the 46 prototype, The Brick.

I note that 4620 (46-6) is also on the list.

And why were the buffers removed on some?
Newcastle Express


Out of the liveries being done by Auscision, 4634 is about as close as you can get
to a 'standard' Indian Red liveried loco (apart from 4620 which some my shy away from
for obvious reasons).

The silver roof on 4631 will need a lot of weathering to make it look right and 4623 has
the blue L7 logo that only some members carried.

Paul
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Note how I'm only quoting the relevant part? (I shouldn't really be quoting any of it!)

Out of the liveries being done by Auscision, 4634 is about as close as you can get
to a 'standard' Indian Red liveried loco (apart from 4620 which some my shy away from for obvious reasons).
FirstStopCentral

Wonder if 4620 will sell? I thought they might have had to get permission from the relatives.

And what was more common, both pantographs up or just one, or about half & half? And when was only one pantograph required?
Some photos though show two 46's, the lead 46 with both up, and the second with just one up.

I note that the front & rear bogies are connected to each other. Wonder why that was?
  a6et Minister for Railways

Note how I'm only quoting the relevant part? (I shouldn't really be quoting any of it!)


Wonder if 4620 will sell? I thought they might have had to get permission from the relatives.

And what was more common, both pantographs up or just one, or about half & half? And when was only one pantograph required?
Some photos though show two 46's, the lead 46 with both up, and the second with just one up.

I note that the front & rear bogies are connected to each other. Wonder why that was?
Newcastle Express

Single engines had both panto's up while hauling trains, LE, only one up.

Double engines or more both on trains had one up only within the bounded Sydney Metro area, outside those boundaries both were up on each engine.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Wonder if 4620 will sell? I thought they might have had to get permission from the relatives.

And what was more common, both pantographs up or just one, or about half & half? And when was only one pantograph required?
Some photos though show two 46's, the lead 46 with both up, and the second with just one up.

I note that the front & rear bogies are connected to each other. Wonder why that was?
Newcastle Express

4620 didn't have relatives. Wink Persons* involved with the Granville accident have no rights ownership of any kind to the locomotive or model, permission would only potentially be required from such persons if their likeness was being used to endorse or promote the model commercially. (* NSW Govt may own rights to the livery or trade marks, etc but that's a general issue not 4620 specific).

Pantograph use depended on a number of factors related to the overhead wire strength. It's all covered in detail in the Working of Electric Trains manuals issued by Dept. of Railways, PTCNSW, and SRA. Working timetables also contain some relevant information. In summary, the pantographs exert upwards pressure on the overhead and having 4 pantos up on 2 locos can be too much force over a short distance. There were various rules that covered different working areas (due to differing strength overhead wiring), and rules that came into play depending on the trains speed (above 55mph/90kmh you had to use less pantographs in some sections).

46 class bogies are connected because unlike most locomotives the body/frame wasn't used to transfer coupler forces. The bogies of a 46 are essentially performing the same function as the frame on a 'normal' loco, the 46 body only needs to be strong enough to support its own bits, the body does not have to deal with the forces exerted by a train. You'll notice the end couplers are mounted to the bogies, not the loco frame/body.
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

4620 is a very confident move for what is a loco that had a chequered career
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
4620 is a very confident move for what is a loco that had a chequered career
gw0071

Trainorama did S317.  S317 was involved in multiple incidents with fatalities.

Mark
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

Well touché
  Indefatigable Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
4620 is a very confident move for what is a loco that had a chequered career
gw0071

I thought the same. When Auscision announced that 4634 had sold out, the only other 46 class in that colour scheme left to order was 4620. I must admit, seeing that as the next option for a 46 in tuscan with yellow lining, buffers, and a brown roof, I thought about the accident. That pause was enough to jolt me from a pre-christmas, buy-all-of-the-trains trance and realise that my Central West secondary main line layout does not need a 46 class.

Considering that the colour scheme was applied in the late 1960's and 4620 never ran again after January 1977, it's an interesting choice.

Perhaps not one for the purists, but there's nothing stopping the fans of the loco in that scheme from buying it and running it with post-1977 rollingstock.

Wait.

No, I definitely do not need a 46 class.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I thought the same. When Auscision announced that 4634 had sold out, the only other 46 class in that colour scheme left to order was 4620. I must admit, seeing that as the next option for a 46 in tuscan with yellow lining, buffers, and a brown roof, I thought about the accident. That pause was enough to jolt me from a pre-christmas, buy-all-of-the-trains trance and realise that my Central West secondary main line layout does not need a 46 class.

Considering that the colour scheme was applied in the late 1960's and 4620 never ran again after January 1977, it's an interesting choice.

Perhaps not one for the purists, but there's nothing stopping the fans of the loco in that scheme from buying it and running it with post-1977 rollingstock.

Wait.

No, I definitely do not need a 46 class.
Indefatigable

There's different ways to look at this.

I was driving on ETR on the day of Granville, the train I worked was the old Heron from Emu Plains that ran in front of the mountains service hauled by 4620. The heron was an express service, after leaving Parramatta Redfern was next stop. On arrival at Central, I was told that normal diagram working was cancelled owing to the Granville derailment & was to continue to Hornsby Car sheds & would be advised of my next work, which would have seen me work back via Stathfield to Central & go home finishing around 1100. Instead, like many others I worked on till around 1500 & was taken home by Taxi owing to long hours on duty.

Rather than go on with the remaining events of the day, & we know most of them especially those who sadly perished, also the ungoing attacks against the Eveleigh driver accused of speeding & the like.  However, maybe a better way to look at it is that the crew of 4620 did survive, against probably a lot of odds, they suffered as a result, as did the many rescuers, ambo's, police & ordinary people who came together to assist where they could. Those others on the railways at the time also gave their all to what was a very dramatic & sad day, which is etched into the minds of all.

Yes the sorrow was there & still is, however the known work of others as well as the untold work of many more also deserves to be remembered & maybe in some small way a minature model of the locomotive involved may instead be something to remember the even by. Bare also in mind had it not been for Granville the likelhood of more of the runing down of the system may well have continued rather than the large scale investments that came as a result of it.
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Possibly I will be pilloried for sacrilege, but has anyone considered that the Auscision team did not know that 4620 was hauling the train that was involved in the Granville accident?  Just a thought.
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

Possibly I will be pilloried for sacrilege, but has anyone considered that the Auscision team did not know that 4620 was hauling the train that was involved in the Granville accident? Just a thought.
John_Bushell

I won't pillory you John, I just doubt that is the case. I suspect they assumed the opposite and assumed that 4620 would have a bit of celebrity attached to it, morbid as that may seem. Still, it is worth remembering that from the time she entered traffic until Granville she was just an ordinary 46 class. In any case, it is entirely possible for someone to buy 4620 and renumber the model....

Craig w
  2LaGrange Train Controller

Spot on before that accident it was just a standard 46 so doing that number adds to its attraction for some.Models and souvenirs have been done of the Titanic and the Hindenburg which were also involved in the tragic loss of lives so its not that shocking that they picked 4620 as a number.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I won't pillory you John, I just doubt that is the case. I suspect they assumed the opposite and assumed that 4620 would have a bit of celebrity attached to it, morbid as that may seem. Still, it is worth remembering that from the time she entered traffic until Granville she was just an ordinary 46 class. In any case, it is entirely possible for someone to buy 4620 and renumber the model....

Craig w
CraigW

Well it also has another claim to fame as being the known fastest Locomtive in NSW especially on the Western line as it was also the engine involved in the derailment at Wentworth Falls at a pretty fair speed considering the speed board for the spot was 35MPH.
  Black_Ute Station Master

Location: Queanbeyan NSW
Don't forget 'On Track Models' recently released the three 82 Class units (8219, 8246, 8247) involved in the 1997 Beresfield incident.  Whilst no one was killed in that accident it was one of the more spectacular with all three locos damaged beyond repair from memory.  (I think one of them may have been used for spares)

According to OTM's Facebook page, they have had quite a few requests for the Beresfield models since their initial release as some people like to collect the more unusual/ interesting models that have a bit of a history, 4620 would be the same I guess with Granville and the Wentworth Falls runaway in '65.

There was a 38 class that was said to be jinxed too, it was always in the dirt, washouts and collisions, can't remember the number though.  (3817??? maybe)
  anzac1959 Chief Commissioner

Hey all merry Christmas and all of that. Looking forward to 2015.  Anyway the chrome numbers on the side of the 46er's are they the same font.as the 38s numbers?tia
  a6et Minister for Railways

Don't forget 'On Track Models' recently released the three 82 Class units (8219, 8246, 8247) involved in the 1997 Beresfield incident. Whilst no one was killed in that accident it was one of the more spectacular with all three locos damaged beyond repair from memory. (I think one of them may have been used for spares)

According to OTM's Facebook page, they have had quite a few requests for the Beresfield models since their initial release as some people like to collect the more unusual/ interesting models that have a bit of a history, 4620 would be the same I guess with Granville and the Wentworth Falls runaway in '65.

There was a 38 class that was said to be jinxed too, it was always in the dirt, washouts and collisions, can't remember the number though. (3817??? maybe)
Black_Ute

3817 Was involved in three incidents, the Geurie collision while working the up mail with 6003 saw the end of both of those engines.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Hey all merry Christmas and all of that. Looking forward to 2015. Anyway the chrome numbers on the side of the 46er's are they the same font.as the 38s numbers?tia
anzac1959

standard contractors numbers in chrome.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Trainorama did S317. S317 was involved in multiple incidents with fatalities.

Mark
LaidlayM

Okay thanks, that seems to be less well known, unlike 4620's.

Then we have 3801's accident at or near the Boronia's tunnels.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Okay thanks, that seems to be less well known, unlike 4620's.
Newcastle Express

It is sort of well known... it's why S317's nose and windscreen profile is different from any other S class

http://www.victorianrailways.net/motive%20power/sdie/s317barna.jpg

http://www.pjv101.net/fts/u01/af575.jpg
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Not sure if 4620 had the 'L7' logos at the time of her withdrawl - I certainly could not see any from the Granville pics.
The way the sales are going, people seem to be levitating towards the 'with buffers' option so I guess 4620 could be sold out before others - regardless of her operating past.
I'm still interested in seeing the tuscan version with the smaller panto's....but I will be skipping the candy with yellow panto's!!!
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
I was not surprised to see 4634 sell first as it is the only one of two 46's in the 1968-77 'cats whiskers' scheme. From 1977 those modified either at Valley Heights or Chullora either received silver (or gray) roofs and/or L7 logos.
As pointed out by others the other three versions in indian red with whiskers offered by Auscision are post refit editions, with 4602 also having the cross-arm smaller pantographs.
This is somewhat surprising really as some locos continued in service into the 80's unmodified from their 1970's condition (4634 was one of those). So I would have thought at least one or two additional numbers in that colour scheme would have been appropriate, especially given that the locos were in that scheme for longer than any other.
Note too that some locos were not refitted and modified, but were repainted in the late 70's early 80's. 4631 is an example of these.

Perhaps there will be a surprise additional indian red number when they arrive? I certainly hope so.

Regarding 4620 a friend of mine is purchasing just one 46 class and specifically wanted that one.  I'm 99% certain it did not have L7 logos. Looking through the 46 class book it appears that 4622 was the first to get the L7 logo in Nov 1977. I'm not certain how popular it will be but given it's unique and infamous role in history I suspect it will sell out before a few other things.

Regards,

Toby
  a6et Minister for Railways

I was not surprised to see 4634 sell first as it is the only one of two 46's in the 1968-77 'cats whiskers' scheme. From 1977 those modified either at Valley Heights or Chullora either received silver (or gray) roofs and/or L7 logos.
As pointed out by others the other three versions in indian red with whiskers offered by Auscision are post refit editions, with 4602 also having the cross-arm smaller pantographs.
This is somewhat surprising really as some locos continued in service into the 80's unmodified from their 1970's condition (4634 was one of those). So I would have thought at least one or two additional numbers in that colour scheme would have been appropriate, especially given that the locos were in that scheme for longer than any other.
Note too that some locos were not refitted and modified, but were repainted in the late 70's early 80's. 4631 is an example of these.

Perhaps there will be a surprise additional indian red number when they arrive? I certainly hope so.

Regarding 4620 a friend of mine is purchasing just one 46 class and specifically wanted that one.  I'm 99% certain it did not have L7 logos. Looking through the 46 class book it appears that 4622 was the first to get the L7 logo in Nov 1977. I'm not certain how popular it will be but given it's unique and infamous role in history I suspect it will sell out before a few other things.

Regards,

Toby
"DQ2004"



Toby

The cats whisker scheme actually started to be applied in 1964, I can remember the first of them arriving exh Chullora when I was a cleaner there in that year.  As per usual with engines outshopped they went into specific roads at Delec to be checked over by the running staff, in this case it went into 7 road on the electric side.

I can remember that there were no really favourible comments about the changed scheme from anyone there, but as more came out, it just became another scheme to accept & work with.
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
Toby

The cats whisker scheme actually started to be applied in 1964, I can remember the first of them arriving exh Chullora when I was a cleaner there in that year.  As per usual with engines outshopped they went into specific roads at Delec to be checked over by the running staff, in this case it went into 7 road on the electric side.

I can remember that there were no really favourible comments about the changed scheme from anyone there, but as more came out, it just became another scheme to accept & work with.
a6et
I was going by the book 'Portrait of a Classic' by Shawn Rannard.
It very clearly states 1967 onwards, although the majority of them were actually repainted in 1968. I believe this is reflected in the records that he has accessed for the class, which include the 1959-60 repaints from Midland Red into Indian Red (but retaining the original lining pattern), which many other authors have either been unaware of or failed to report accurately.
I have seen no evidence that they were repainted earlier than that. I would love to see some if you have any, as I have not.
No other book or article I have mentions the whiskers scheme as happening before 1967 either.

I'm not surprised there were no favourable comments, although Shawn Rannard seems to me to prefer that scheme to the others in his book, describing it on more than one occasion as 'serviceable', although of course all this really means is that it took a lot more grime to really show the dirt!

Regards

Toby
  a6et Minister for Railways

I was going by the book 'Portrait of a Classic' by Shawn Rannard.
It very clearly states 1967 onwards, although the majority of them were actually repainted in 1968. I believe this is reflected in the records that he has accessed for the class, which include the 1959-60 repaints from Midland Red into Indian Red (but retaining the original lining pattern), which many other authors have either been unaware of or failed to report accurately.
I have seen no evidence that they were repainted earlier than that. I would love to see some if you have any, as I have not.
No other book or article I have mentions the whiskers scheme as happening before 1967 either.

I'm not surprised there were no favourable comments, although Shawn Rannard seems to me to prefer that scheme to the others in his book, describing it on more than one occasion as 'serviceable', although of course all this really means is that it took a lot more grime to really show the dirt!

Regards

Toby
"DQ2004"


Toby

All I can say that I was an appointed fireman in 67 for a couple of years in 1967, & from memory I was still an Acting fireman only & on the 46cl dayshift wash when it arrived.  Certainly I would say 65 at the latest.  The only thing I can think of is would the paint job have been a one off as an early experimental scheme.

Other than that I will have to bow to the book experts.

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