RRL Project - West Werribee / Southern Cross

 
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
Armstrong Road now runs from Greens Road to Ballan Road (past Wyndham Vale Station) so I was able to get this photo of the station from the east today.

Sponsored advertisement

  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Going off on a complete tangent here, what's the status of the BG between Jacana and Albion? Being from NSW, I have no idea if it is still useable.

Reason I am asking?

What would be the ups and downs of sending Seymour and Shepparton trains via Albion and RRL from Sunshine?

Would get them out of Metro's way, as well as creating additional capacity for Metro.

Dave
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Going off on a complete tangent here, what's the status of the BG between Jacana and Albion? Being from NSW, I have no idea if it is still useable.

Reason I am asking?

What would be the ups and downs of sending Seymour and Shepparton trains via Albion and RRL from Sunshine?

Would get them out of Metro's way, as well as creating additional capacity for Metro.

Dave
thadocta
It's not a stupid question, however I believe the old BG has been converted to SG which means Shepparton's & Seymour's all have to travel via Essendon.

Mike.
  JoppaJunction Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
It's not a stupid question, however I believe the old BG has been converted to SG which means Shepparton's & Seymour's all have to travel via Essendon.

Mike.
The Vinelander

The BG line between Jacana and Albion is very muchin use and on a daily basis with several trains per day.  Part of the line has been converted to DG.

Reading elsewhere on here the line will also be used for the future airport link.  With electrification of this line for airline line use and if it were to be extended the short distance to Broadmeadows then an alternate path between Broadmeadows and Sunhine would be available.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
... Reading elsewhere on here the line will also be used for the future airport link...
BenGibbons
Well no, the new crowd running Victoria have been very careful to not even imply any interest in building a rail line to Tulla airport. Of course, one day the people will re-elect the old mob who were committed to building the airport rail line, but their priorities may have changed by then.

In short, Melbourne airport won't see a train for at least a decade, probably several decades... if ever.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
To be fair you may be right. Just remember the ALP have not announced any post election policies which they are sure to do. If Abbott still provides the money for the old east link project this might very well be used to build the airport link.

Melbourne airport are very very keen to see it built.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
I guess some people passionately "barrack" for a political "team" and genuinely believe that all good things come from that team (or political party) and also believe that the other mob are baddies who ritually sacrifice small cuddly animals to Satan.

I'll admit to being passionately interested in policy, but not so much in politics. So if one team comes up with what seems to be the best portfolio of policies, then I will support them. However I'm very sceptical about excessive "brand loyalty" to one political party, as that blinds us to examining their policies. That's why I tend to praise or criticise policies, but not political parties.

So... (and here's where I will get in trouble from the Labour Party people)... that's why I voted for Napthine's crowd at the last state election, their well thought out and affordable transport policies (including the Tulla Train), were vastly better than the "feel good" policies of the outfit that actually won the election. However just to show that I'm not one sided, I would have difficulty voting for Abbott federally unless Shorten's mob came up with policies that were utterly bonkers.
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Hmmmmm. Fail to see how the last few posts actually address the issue of running Seymour and Shepparton trains via Albion and RRL.

Dave
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
The BG line between Jacana and Albion is very muchin use and on a daily basis with several trains per day.  Part of the line has been converted to DG.
BenGibbons
Thanks for the clarification...
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Going off on a complete tangent here, what's the status of the BG between Jacana and Albion? Being from NSW, I have no idea if it is still useable.

Reason I am asking?

What would be the ups and downs of sending Seymour and Shepparton trains via Albion and RRL from Sunshine?

Would get them out of Metro's way, as well as creating additional capacity for Metro.

Dave
thadocta
Pre 1962 there were two bg lines between Albion and  Jacana used by freight trains and in emergencies by passenger trains .
At one stage a rail over road bridge was struck by a truck on the route via Essendon and all loco hauled Vicrail Albury , Seymour and  Valley trains ran via Albion for a protracted period of six months.

Since 1962 one track was converted to sg and equipped with crossing loops between Albion and Jacana .

In recent years ARTC has converted a 7 km section of the remaining bg line to dg to provide a sg duplication over 7 kms within this section . (At the same time the former sg crossing loops in this section were abandonded.)  The  bg track was previously maintained to allow 80kmh for both goods and passenger trains.  In recent years VLP has let this track deteriorate to the extent that it is now  60 - 65 kmh for freight trains .  Owing to Nanny State  inflexibility this bg track is not used for bg passenger trains in recent years, albeit it could be in emergency circumstances .  VLP just get lazy and the operation becomes V Bus by default.

In respect of RRL and  running bg Seymour and  Valley trains via RRL and Albion .  The initial capacity of 20 trains per hour on RRL will be all used over the South Western, Western & Northern lines at Peak times, so it aint going to happen .  However at  Off peak times some bg  Valley and Seymour trains could access Southern Cross via the Broadmeadows flyover (at Nth Melbourne) and RRL lines .

Specifically one can route an Up bg train via the Broadmeadows flyover to the RRL Up lines to 15/16 and towards 1-8 platforms via the RRL lines. On the Down from Southern Cross one can get a train via the RRL lines from 15/16 to the  Broadmeadows flyover, but Spion Kop Junction does not allow a Down train from 1 - 8 via RRL lines to be routed to the Broadmeadows flyover .  (A piece of trackwork is missing at Spion Kop Junction) . There are no plans to install the required trackwork, and no plans to route Seymour / Valley bg trains into Sthn Cross using the RRL lines via  Spion Kop Junction at this time.

Medium term the plan is to re-open bg between Upfield and  Somerton and route all bg Valley and Seymour tarins via Upfield as there is spare capacity on this corridor .  The VLP paths released on the existing route via Essendon would then be used by Metro to run additional Broadmeadows sparks .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Going off on a complete tangent here, what's the status of the BG between Jacana and Albion? Being from NSW, I have no idea if it is still useable.

Reason I am asking?

What would be the ups and downs of sending Seymour and Shepparton trains via Albion and RRL from Sunshine?

Would get them out of Metro's way, as well as creating additional capacity for Metro.

Dave
thadocta
Pre 1962 there were two bg lines between Albion and  Jacana used by freight trains and in emergencies by passenger trains .
At one stage a rail over road bridge was struck by a truck on the route via Essendon and all loco hauled Vicrail Albury , Seymour and  Valley trains ran via Albion for a protracted period of six months.

Since 1962 one track was converted to sg and equipped with crossing loops between Albion and Jacana .

In recent years ARTC has converted a 7 km section of the remaining bg line to dg to provide a sg duplication over 7 kms within this section . (At the same time the former sg crossing loops in this section were abandonded.)  The  bg track was previously maintained to allow 80kmh for both goods and passenger trains.  In recent years VLP has let this track deteriorate to the extent that it is now  60 - 65 kmh for freight trains .  Owing to Nanny State  inflexibility this bg track is not used for bg passenger trains in recent years, albeit it could be in emergency circumstances .  VLP just get lazy and the operation becomes V Bus by default.

In respect of RRL and  running bg Seymour and  Valley trains via RRL and Albion .  The initial capacity of 20 trains per hour on RRL will be all used over the South Western, Western & Northern lines at Peak times, so it aint going to happen .  However at  Off peak times some bg  Valley and Seymour trains could access Southern Cross via the Broadmeadows flyover (at Nth Melbourne) and RRL lines .

Specifically one can route an Up bg train via the Broadmeadows flyover to the RRL Up lines to 15/16 and towards 1-8 platforms via the RRL lines. On the Down from Southern Cross one can get a train via the RRL lines from 15/16 to the  Broadmeadows flyover, but Spion Kop Junction does not allow a Down train from 1 - 8 via RRL lines to be routed to the Broadmeadows flyover .  (A piece of trackwork is missing at Spion Kop Junction) . There are no plans to install the required trackwork, and no plans to route Seymour / Valley bg trains into Sthn Cross using the RRL lines via  Spion Kop Junction at this time.

Medium term the plan is to re-open bg between Upfield and  Somerton and route all bg Valley and Seymour tarins via Upfield as there is spare capacity on this corridor .  The VLP paths released on the existing route via Essendon would then be used by Metro to run additional Broadmeadows sparks .
  trestle_nutter Train Controller

Location: Yarra Valley
 The  bg track was previously maintained to allow 80kmh for both goods and passenger trains.  In recent years VLP has let this track deteriorate to the extent that it is now  60 - 65 kmh for freight trains .
kuldalai
just to illustrate Kuldalai's point about the deteriorating BG track......photo taken last Sunday looking north towards keilor Park Dve

[img]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/trestle_nutter/PICT1522_zps37bd5e64.jpg[/img]
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

just to illustrate Kuldalai's point about the deteriorating BG track......photo taken last Sunday looking north towards keilor Park Dve

[img]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/trestle_nutter/PICT1522_zps37bd5e64.jpg[/img]
trestle_nutter
A damning endightment on successive State Governments and V/Line that such a valuable outer suburban link line used by a reasonable volume of freight trains is maintained to such a goat track standard .

In reality  Victoria & ARTC should be converting the bg line to dual gauge for the full distance between Albion and Jacana and restoring the track to Class- 2 so that the maximum value is obtained from the two tracks through this section .
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Couldn't agree more. Would add greater flexibility for the North East standard gauge and help in staging and sequencing trains approaching Melbourne such as in the early morning. Would improve performance of both XPT and VLINE which often get caught both morning and night
  blowfish Junior Train Controller

They might be reluctant to spend money on this section for the purposes of BG, if there's a medium term plan to covert much of the Goulburn Valley line to SG. Essentially doubling up of the work. It obviously depends on how far south of Seymour (if any) they wish to progress.
  Tony M. Locomotive Driver

After a bit of a break from train travel over Xmas, I was surprised to find the 3.32pm from Geelong station to Southern Cross now sits at Geelong for eight minutes, then takes 70 minutes to get to Southern Cross (arriving at 4.50pm). If they're padding the timetables this much already, I'm guessing the old days of assuming it takes roughly an hour on the train between Geelong and Melbourne are done for.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

They might be reluctant to spend money on this section for the purposes of BG, if there's a medium term plan to covert much of the Goulburn Valley line to SG. Essentially doubling up of the work. It obviously depends on how far south of Seymour (if any) they wish to progress.
blowfish
Unlikely GV will be standardized at an early date  as :

1. Places extra trains on single track sg line between Southern Cross and Seymour.
2. Inland railway tkes off at  Illabo north of Junee, no intention to go via  Tocumwal now .
3. Getting the rest of the North West converted to sg is a much higher priority  benefit wise.
4. Standardizing Shepparton would require an net increase in the VLP fleet .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

After a bit of a break from train travel over Xmas, I was surprised to find the 3.32pm from Geelong station to Southern Cross now sits at Geelong for eight minutes, then takes 70 minutes to get to Southern Cross (arriving at 4.50pm). If they're padding the timetables this much already, I'm guessing the old days of assuming it takes roughly an hour on the train between Geelong and Melbourne are done for.
Tony M.
The single line beyond Geelong dictates the  1520 Up ex Waurn Ponds has to be into Geelong by  1532  as the  1440 Dn arrives Geelong  1530/1533  to  Waurn Ponds . The Down train is much more heavily loaded so it gets the better run .

Not clear as to why 1520 Up needs to wait at Geelong so long, must be either to do with Metro pathing in from Werribee, or  RRL pathing in from South Kensington .

The current VLP tt on RRL is just the old VLP  tt  best fitted onto RRL so the running times are not realistic .  The new RRL tt  due in April will address all these issues and should offer more sensible running times .
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
... I'm guessing the old days of assuming it takes roughly an hour on the train between Geelong and Melbourne are done for.
Tony M.
The good old West Coast Railway used to do it in 52 minutes.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
The good old West Coast Railway used to do it in 52 minutes.
Bogong
In a R?
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
In a R?
Donald
Way back in the 1990's when I was quite young, I used to commute to Geelong, to some extent I could keep my own hours, so long as I was on the job 38 hours a week. I often caught the WCR train that left Spencer Street Station circa 8.40 am, and got to Geelong station in about 52 minutes

I must have got that train 200 times. It always hauled by an S class or B class (oldies will remember them) in snappy WCR electric blue with white and yellow highlights.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

In a R?
Donald
On the Saturday's when it ran - a timetabled 60 min on the Down, 55 min on the Up.

In 1938 the Geelong Flyer with the A2 took 57 min on the Down, 55 min on the Up.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
On the Saturday's when it ran - a timetabled 60 min on the Down, 55 min on the Up.

In 1938 the Geelong Flyer with the A2 took 57 min on the Down, 55 min on the Up.
Carnot
Travel times to and from Geelong are a joke now thanks to V/Lines "padding". With RRL they will blow out further especially if services are loco hauled and restricted to 115kph running.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Travel times to and from Geelong are a joke now thanks to V/Lines "padding". With RRL they will blow out further especially if services are loco hauled and restricted to 115kph running.
SamTheMan79

STM why the padding?  Why is it necessary?
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
The "padding" in timetables is so that companies that contract to run services (Metro trains, Yarra trains) don't get fined for late running and government owned outfits like Vline don't get customer complaints that reflect poorly on both the company and it's owner (the state government). So the more the timetable for a service is "padded out", the less likely the operator is to get in trouble for services running late.

I do wish that there was provision in timetables for express services to say something like "This train is scheduled to make the journey in 70 minutes, but we usually do it in 58 minutes". That way they could advertise a fast service, but not get in trouble if it is delayed. Of course this wouldn't work on trains that frequently stop, as they can't leave an intermediate station before the scheduled time.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.