Tipping ore cars in the Pilbara

 
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
A pool of GY wagons were last used for the Dandenong briquette traffic.
The last use of these wagons by V/Line.
Nightfire
Thanks Nightfire. I assume that this was long after the 'real'coal traffic ended and that the GYs had been/were being superseded in the grain by hoppers. The GYs were certainly in better condition than the I trucks in my memory time.

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  M636C Minister for Railways

I, too, thought that the VR coal wagons were a rag bag lot of I wagons of one sort or another. I agree that many (at least) were crudely modified without side doors although some at least needed doors to allow unloading at suburban locations using a tractor mounted scraper affair (?). There was nothing much cruder than a VR I wagon! The GYs were restricted to grain in those days I thought.

I also have a recollection of some coal wagons having different heights of sides but it is all a long time ago.

I thought that the IT wagons were I trucks with a high hungry board on one end for timber traffic from Orbost but I may well be mistaken in this regard. It is all a long time ago now so I am open to correction on everything that I have said but if anyone has any detailed information on the Newport Power Station and the Heinz tipplers and their operation I would be very interested.

How was the coal from Bacchus Marsh unloaded at Fairfield, please?
YM-Mundrabilla

After fifty years I had forgotten the code.

http://www.pjv101.net/cd/pages/c010m.htm

The code was IC (for coal) not IT (for tippler)

Since the V/Line name was introduced twenty years after my observations at Newport, I'm not surprised that more recent wagons were in use by them (and I agree with the rough appearance of the Newport coal wagons)

M636C
  Hendo Deputy Commissioner

Tipplers first seemed to have been developed in the UK in the 19th century, there are images of a pair of wagons "tippled" and being unloaded by hand at a London Dock in 1898.

Beside the fact that the bulk wagon can be made more simply, not requiring angled sheeting inside or expensive hopper systems. I believe the other advantage of tippler wagons over chute/door hoppers is that heavy materials, like iron ore, which is more likely to clump or solidify during transit, particularly if it gets wet, will be emptied more easily by a tippler and less likely to jam.


Cheers,
Hendo
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Are there any tippers at Port Adelaide ?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Referring to the video link in the thread above a novice question how does the train position itself exactly so the wagon or wagons being tippled are exactly in place for the action?

is this automated or good driving?
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Automated.

A positioner arm drops down between the couplers and pushes on the headstock of the wagon. While the cars in the barrel are being tipped, wheel chocks and clamps secure the train, the arm retracts and moves to the next coupler, and the process repeats.

You can see the arm assembly here.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

A variation on the theme, sugar mills in Queensland also use rotary tipplers to empty 2ft and 3ft6 gauge cane bins. Without rotary couplers and air hoses to worry about, these tipplers usually do a complete 360-degree spin...




https://youtu.be/bAzMFlvP2lY
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Automated.

A positioner arm drops down between the couplers and pushes on the headstock of the wagon. While the cars in the barrel are being tipped, wheel chocks and clamps secure the train, the arm retracts and moves to the next coupler, and the process repeats.

You can see the arm assembly here.
KRviator

Are the locomotives attached or is the consist the only portion of the train which passes through the Tippler?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Are the locomotives attached or is the consist the only portion of the train which passes through the Tippler?
bevans
The locos normally go through the tippler at FMG and are capable of going through at least some tipplers at BHP. They may then remain attached to the train whilst unloading or they may go for servicing.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Are the locomotives attached or is the consist the only portion of the train which passes through the Tippler?
bevans

Normally the train is hauled into the rotary dumper, either by the road locomotives or by dedicated shunting locomotives. Then usually the locomotive(s) are removed for servicing or to pick up another rake of cars. Usually a pair of cars fitted with air compressors is attached to the rear to keep the brake pipe pressure up.

BHP Billiton had a problem in that the old No 1 dumper, dating back to the Oroville Dam construction in the USA, wouldn't allow SD70ACe locomotives to fit through, so the three blue and yellow SD40s were allocated to haul the trains to the dumper. Even these SD40s were modified with low profile fans.

BHP Billiton split the trains up for dumping. Trains consist of two or three sets of two locomotives and around 110 cars. These are split up either at Bing or in Nelson Point, and the road locomotives run off for servicing either at Nelson Point or Boodarie and a single locomotive pulls the train to the dumper. A different shunter puts compressor cars on the rear.

For some reason, compressor cars aren't used on Finucane Island but a pair of dummy cars are attached at the front to aid in the positioning. (At least when I was last there...)

M636C
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
At the Port Augusta power stations (when the tippler was used), a compressor car was sometimes attached to the rear so the Locos could uncouple and go to be serviced/refuelled.
  M636C Minister for Railways

I realise we haven't addressed Rio Tinto....

Rio have two ports, Dampier and Cape Lambert.

Dampier originally had a fairly scary system at Parker Point (which I never saw operating) where cars were run by gravity down a ramp to the dumper in pairs (so rotary couplers weren't needed). The loaded pair pushed the just emptied pair clear of the dumper onto a level track where the train was recoupled. This must have been hard on couplers and draft gear. And I don't know how the cars were accurately positioned...

I think there are two conventional dumpers at the amusingly named East Intercourse Island. Trains are hauled from Seven Mile Yard to EII  (and possibly to a newer conventional dumper at Parker Point) by dedicated locomotives, including four CF class on lease, with compressor cars attached.

Cape Lambert was the Robe River port. It had one single car dumper as built. That dumper is still in use for rains from the Robe line which still use the original cars. There are two newer "Hamersley" dumpers on the the other (Eastern) side of the yard for standard Rio cars from other mines. They use compressor cars and CF4405 and CF4406 (among others)are used as yard shunters.

M636C
  firefox Station Master

I think Newcastle is the biggest coal export port and that has always used hopper wagons, although there was a rotary dumper for four wheel UT wagons on Kooragang Island when it was first opened (early 1970s?). They were more trouble than they were worth, since the oil leaked out of the conventional axleboxes when the wagons were inverted.

M636C
M636C
Kooragang Island has only ever had bottom discharge unloaders.

The Carrington MSB loader when opened in August 1967 had a tippler road for UT wagons, but was also used to dump BCH, HCH, CH and later FCH hoppers. A second bottom discharge road was used for non-air hoppers and government LCH/CCH hoppers. As you mentioned, the older hoppers with non-roller bearing non-sealed axle boxes lost oil, and the tippler road was converted to bottom discharge in February 1976. At the same time, the Carrington balloon loop was commissioned.

As an aside, the discharge shed for the recently opened Newcastle AgriTerminal on the Bullock Island No.1 Grain Arrival Road is almost exactly in the same spot as the former MSB unloading shed.

Firefox
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

As an aside, the discharge shed for the recently opened Newcastle AgriTerminal on the Bullock Island No.1 Grain Arrival Road is almost exactly in the same spot as the former MSB unloading shed.

Firefox
firefox

Hi @firefox would you have a google or nearmap reference for this location please?

Interestingly how was coal unloading first addressed on the Queensland Networks?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO_MYR39fyY

Enjoy.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

QR had traditionally used bottom dump hoppers into the diesel era, although, I'm pretty sure the Tennyson Power station had a tippler to dump normal four wheel V series hoppers after WW2. By the fifties and sixties side dump tipplers were in use at Pinkenba to dump W series grain wagons and Townsville for the WHO concentrate wagons. Coal went to tippler wagons in a big way with the opening of the Goonyella line and Hay Point in 1970. The Hay Point coal terminal stayed with G series gondolas and rotary tipplers until converting to the bottom dump hoppers used at the newer Dalrymple Bay terminal next door. As of today coal is still rotary dumped at the Queensland Nickel refinery north of Townsviile using the last G series wagons still in coal traffic.

Here's that last G series coal set in action...



http://youtu.be/otRpdpAxiXc
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
QR had traditionally used bottom dump hoppers into the diesel era, although, I'm pretty sure the Tennyson Power station had a tippler to dump normal four wheel V series hoppers after WW2. By the fifties and sixties side dump tipplers were in use at Pinkenba to dump W series grain wagons and Townsville for the WHO concentrate wagons. Coal went to tippler wagons in a big way with the opening of the Goonyella line and Hay Point in 1970. The Hay Point coal terminal stayed with G series gondolas and rotary tipplers until converting to the bottom dump hoppers used at the newer Dalrymple Bay terminal next door. As of today coal is still rotary dumped at the Queensland Nickel refinery north of Townsviile using the last G series wagons still in coal traffic.

Here's that last G series coal set in action...



http://youtu.be/otRpdpAxiXc
Sulla1
Sorry Sulla1 I seem to have missed something (it is not the first time either I might add).
Are not the wagons in the video attached to your post bottom dump hoppers with bomb bay doors? If so I seem to have missed the tippler bit or have they contrived somehow to unload hoppers with a tippler rather than into a pit as usual, please?
Sorry if I have got it all, shall we say, 'upside down'!
  M636C Minister for Railways

Sorry Sulla1 I seem to have missed something (it is not the first time either I might add).
Are not the wagons in the video attached to your post bottom dump hoppers with bomb bay doors? If so I seem to have missed the tippler bit or have they contrived somehow to unload hoppers with a tippler rather than into a pit as usual, please?
Sorry if I have got it all, shall we say, 'upside down'!
YM-Mundrabilla
No, those are the normal tippler wagons.

The design was an adaptation of the VAO coal hopper, with just a curved bathtub base replacing the row of hoppers. The ends were angled, probably to limit the load to whatever the ruling axle load (18 tons?) was at the time.

Many of the original G wagons came with Bradken "Griffin" cast wheels and these were cast so accurately that no machining was needed on the tread (they did machine the axle bore, of course). It was at this stage that an idiosyncracy of QR track design came to the fore. The wheels had a taper of about 1 in 20 like the American original. The rails were laid upright on specially purchased "no cant" cant plates.

The G wagons started appearing in Rockhampton workshops with really serious stress cracking on the treads which had to be machined away. You could replace the destroyed draft gears at the same time, hopefully with a heavier duty version from Miner's catalogue.

The track engineers blinked first, and started buying canted cant plates....

M636C
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

As far as Aurizon's Queensland fleet goes, all G series wagons in use are bathtub gondolas without any bottom dump capacity...so if the wagon code starts with a G it can only be rotary or side tippled. On the other hand, if the wagon code starts with a V it will be a bottom dump hopper used for coal, fertiliser, grain or sugar (with the exception of the VMO molasses wagons).
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Thanks M636C and Sulla1.
That's several things I have learned for the day. I was aware of the 1 in 20 wheel profile used pretty much everywhere other than Queensland at the time but 'QR' rolling stock and locos have always been pretty much a mystery to me. Too far away here in 'Mexico' I suppose.
Do these G wagons clamp in the tippler on the cant rail or elsewhere (or by some other means) do you know, please?
Thanks again.
Regards
YM
  Toad Montgomery Chief Commissioner

Location: Port Hedland: Team EMU want's YOU!
Bit of an update on Pilbara car dumpers.

BHP have three at Nelson Point and two at Finucane Island.
Car rakes are up to 126, locos stay attached, no index or compressor cars are used any more. Index cars are only placed onto rakes when indexing arms fail. Each dumper has an indexing arm each side of the dumper.

FMG has three dumpers and use index and compressor sets, two cars. Locos run through dumper, spots up the train, then uncouples and runs forward then dumping starts.

Rio has the dumper at East Intercourse Island and two at Parker Point. Uses index and compressor sets, two cars. They don't have balloon loops, unlike BHP and FMG.
At Cape Lambert they have three dumpers in the new South Yard, the original single cell dumper for Robe Valley cars and the 'West Angelas' dumper next to it. Again all using index and compressor car sets, and no balloon loops. And locos detach prior to dumping.

The former GML used belly dump wagons upto the removal of the unloader at Finucane Island then converted some cars back to rotary operation and then used any wagons in the BHP fleet.

BHP also have a dumper at Mt Whaleback in Newman which was used for shuttle operations from Jimblebar to whaleback.
  Toad Montgomery Chief Commissioner

Location: Port Hedland: Team EMU want's YOU!
Forgot to say, 150 degrees is the nominal tipping angle.
Cheers
TM.
  firefox Station Master

Hi @firefox would you have a google or nearmap reference for this location please?

Interestingly how was coal unloading first addressed on the Queensland Networks?
bevans

Bevans

Google reference below. This is a couple of years old - the bare area at the top of the image in front of the pedestrian overbridge is the site of the old dumper. The maintenance shed just ahead of it has since been demolished. The balloon loop is now used by trains unloading at the AgriTerminal as well as empty coal trains proceeding to or from temporary storage.



!3m1!1e3?hl=en
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Someone from WA will have more precise information but from around the late 1950's a single wagon rotary tippler was located at the East Perth power station to unload high sided GH class 4-wheel wagons in unit train operation from Collie.   The wagons whilst friction bearing had additional cottonwaste stuffed into the axleboxes to minimize oil loss when tippled.   In WA there was also an "end" tippler located at both Merredin and Avon Yards to unload bogie RCH wagons by titling the wagon at an angle.  The wagons had end discharge out;ets at each end.

The iron ore traffic on the standard gauge had a rotary tippler at Kwinana with the wagons fitted with rotarycouplers.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Someone from WA will have more precise information but from around the late 1950's a single wagon rotary tippler was located at the East Perth power station to unload high sided GH class 4-wheel wagons in unit train operation from Collie.   The wagons whilst friction bearing had additional cottonwaste stuffed into the axleboxes to minimize oil loss when tippled.   In WA there was also an "end" tippler located at both Merredin and Avon Yards to unload bogie RCH wagons by tilting the wagon at an angle.  The wagons had end discharge outlets at each end.

The iron ore traffic on the standard gauge had a rotary tippler at Kwinana with the wagons fitted with rotary couplers.
Trainplanner

I assume the tipplers at Merriden and Avon post dated the conversion to SG and were for transfer of grain between gauges.

Interestingly the standard gauge WG bogie open wagons had end doors for end tippling and as these were actually used for at least a couple of harvests in early SG days, there must have been an SG or at least dual gauge end tippler. Some wagons were fitted with an "inverted T shape" wooden cover that allowed loading from the chutes designed for the "real" WW wagons. Weston Langford's excellent photos show these in service.

The wagons used on the Koolyanobbing Kwinana service were transferred to the Esperance export run, and those not destroyed in derailments are still in service, including some ex Mt Newman cars cut down in height to limiit the load and to fit the tippler.

I don't know if the Kwinana tippler was moved to Esperance, but clearly the one there takes the same wagons.

I think the same dump location in Kwinana is now used by MRL for bottom dump hopper wagons.

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