Electrification of the Melton rail line could solve a number of problems for Ballarat commuters

 

News article: Electrification of the Melton rail line could solve a number of problems for Ballarat commuters

ELECTRIFICATION of the rail line between Melbourne and Melton could solve a number of problems for Ballarat commuters.

  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
ELECTRIFICATION of the rail line between Melbourne and Melton could solve a number of problems for Ballarat commuters.

The change would see commuters boarding from Melton into the city would be picked up by Metro services rather than V/Line and would cut down on time and overcrowding for Ballarat train commuters.

Greens MP Colleen Hartland said if the government were to approach the topic sensibly  the change “would be a priority".
Electrification of the Melton rail line could solve a number of problems for Ballarat commuters


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Duplication of the line between Deer park West and Melton would need to be considered as a part of any electrification strategy. We need to start removing track bottlenecks.

Is there a reason why duplication to Bacchus Marsh could not be considered now?

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  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
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Duplication of the line between Deer park West and Melton would need to be considered as a part of any electrification strategy. We need to start removing track bottlenecks.

Is there a reason why duplication to Bacchus Marsh could not be considered now?
bevans
it would be better: Electrification of the whole line to  Ballarat or higher capacity trains for Ballarat line (6 - 9 train carriages)

Why stop at Bacchus Marsh(60km), why not go all the way to Ballarat ?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Could someone list all the recent rail projects that the Liberal Party MPs and Railpage contributors have called for
in the last 6 months.

Then if someone could do some rough costings for these and post them on here that would be great.

I could do with a good laugh.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
it would be better: Electrification of the whole line to  Ballarat or higher capacity trains for Ballarat line (6 - 9 train carriages)

Why stop at Bacchus Marsh(60km), why not go all the way to Ballarat ?
melbtrip

Is electrification to Ballarat something which would benefit the network?  It would provide better 9 car sets and faster times but I believe track work including passing loops would be required prior to any electrification as the single line working restricts capacity.

An advantage of electrification would better speeds on the hills.  60 kms of extra electrification would probably cost $80m.  Not a large amount in the scheme of the network.
  ab123 Chief Train Controller

"Please spend many $$$ so I can get to Ballarat 5 minutes earlier"

Please!
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Clearly electrification should hve already been completed for Geelong and ballarat. The number d services now plus the hills on the Ballan route would be a far better option.

Forget the naysayers and detractors on this site. The rest of the world is going electrification and Victoria thinks it is a bad idea.

Don't need to be too clever to work out Victoria and the comments on here are misplaced.

Vlocity EMU's would also be faster and cheaper to run than vlocity DMU units.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
A look at the Vline timetable (starting this weekend) reveals some interesting facts.

There are 403 services on the Ballarat Line over the week.  This is an average of 57 services per day across the entire week.

The Ballarat line has 40% more services more per week than the Bendigo Line.

Many of these Ballarat services, close to 80% or approximately 350 per week terminate or originate in the Ballarat area. (running  between there and Melbourne)

Most other services on the line which are shorter services not going to Ballarat terminate or originate at Bacchus Marsh.

Why you would want to electrify to Melton only when Bacchus Marsh is the terminus for the commuter style services I am not sure. Electrification?  Yes of course.  This line in any other jurisdiction would have already been electrified.

Would I do Macchus Marsh. Absolutely.  What about Ballarat?  the extra distance could be justified and should be done.  9 car EMU Vlocities as already suggested would provide a much faster service.  The line is rated to 160 km/h in some parts I believe.  To obtain those speeds electrification would be a better and cheaper option.

Victoria has cheap power.  It is not going away any time soon.  The only question I have is AC or DC for Ballarat?  AC would be a better standard and cheaper to deploy.

Victoria you need to start thinking about coming out of the 1800's.

I have not done an analysis on the Geelong Line as yet.
  ab123 Chief Train Controller

Did anyone actually read the article?
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
From the article:

"Committee for Ballarat chair Judy Verlin said an analysis of the Sunbury line, electrified in 2012, will be undertaken in the Regional Public Transport Plan to determine if the Melton line should follow the same procedure."

I wonder what this review will produce?  A report and if so what scope?

I do not agree electrification itself will solve the issues being experienced.  Track upgrades have also been mentioned in the thread.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
The only thing that will solve Ballarat problems is a new path from the bank at Maddingley across Exford, to Hopkins Rd, meeting the RRL lines at Ravenhall.

That would grant the ability to electrify to Bacchus Marsh, and operate a metro service without any interaction with Vline.

Unfortunately since nobody wants to pay their way for rail, such things are financially impossible.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
How about duplication to Bacchus Marsh, electrification to Melton (at 25kVAC to lower costs) and station bypass tracks at Rockbank, Caroline Springs, Deer Park and Ardeer?
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
25kVAC won't lower costs over such a short distance, and you want Vline separated from Melton services, no argument.

Depends what redevelopment plans are for Bacchus Marsh - if you allow development at Parwan/Maddingley then:

*Bypass track for Ballarat from southern edge of horseshoe to RRL via Exford
*Double track electrified service to Bacchus Marsh via Melton

If you restrict development beyond Melton (more likely):

*Four tracks to Melton
*Electrified service to Melton, Ballarat services pick up Bacchus Marsh

The Melton line is likely to eventually see two more stations between Melton-Rockbank, and to between Rockbank-Deer Park to cater for redevelopment.

In both cases the RRL/Ballarat tracks should be standardised.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
25kVAC won't lower costs over such a short distance, and you want Vline separated from Melton services, no argument.
ZH836301
Are you sure about that? We're talking about 25km of line from Melton to Sunshine, versus 15km Sunbury-Sydenham. Electrification for the latter involved 3 new substations - Melton electrification would only need 2 substations for over 1.6x the length if 25kVAC is used. The argument for 25kVAC is even stronger if you electrify as far out as Bacchus Marsh. And the substations are cheaper - no rectifiers, meaning the whole thing can be pole-mounted.

As for service separation - duplication should deal with capacity issues for both Melton and Ballarat services. You're talking about maybe 4-6 trains per hour for Ballarat services (if that - depends on passing loop constraints Down from Bacchus Marsh) and perhaps 6 trains per hour for Melton services. Using a third track at intermediate stations to bypass Melton services is quite possible and would be far cheaper compared to a brand-new duplicated 'express track' from Maddingley. Of course, if you can justify the potential route shortening in hard dollar terms then I'd be convinced.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Clearly electrification should hve already been completed for Geelong and ballarat. The number d services now plus the hills on the Ballan route would be a far better option.

Forget the naysayers and detractors on this site. The rest of the world is going electrification and Victoria thinks it is a bad idea.

Don't need to be too clever to work out Victoria and the comments on here are misplaced.

Vlocity EMU's would also be faster and cheaper to run than vlocity DMU units.
freightgate
@Freightgate, No Victoria does not have the money to Electrify Regional routes and when the fare paying public is only contributing 15% of operating costs through the fare box, it should not happen.

Michael
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
We need to take into account that right now the amount of funds being committed or actually being spent on public transport is very substantial coming off the back of the investment in RRL.  My next dollar if I wanted to spend it to get the best bang for the buck would be to start double tracking to get the corridor operating as efficiently as you can.   Progressively double tracking throught to Melton would have enormous benefit and is a prerequisite for any future electrification scheme. In the scheme of things thats affordable and very effective
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

I couldn,t see Vline handing over any fail mileage to Metro, considering they have just got their own tracks as per the new RRL.........................Cool
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Electric trains has better  acceleration over the diesel trains.

for example Dandenong to Flinders Street


V/Line Express..............Metro Stopping all station
11:49 .................................12:54
12:29..................................13:36
0:40.....................................0:42
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
@Freightgate, No Victoria does not have the money to Electrify Regional routes and when the fare paying public is only contributing 15% of operating costs through the fare box, it should not happen.

Michael
mejhammers1

Should Public Transport make a profit?
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Should Public Transport make a profit?
bevans
That's not what I am saying. But I am saying that Rail Passengers should pay more through the farebox towards the Operation of the system. 15 % is far too low, remember for every $1 spent on rail 85c goes towards the day to day running and only 15c towards Capital works. $42.00 off peak return to Bendigo for example is far too cheap.

Michael
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

What if Melbourne had electrified intercity services like Sydney. These could go to Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Traralgon and Seymour. Just a thought.

Also, there could be short started services from Bacchus Marsh. With suburban services originating at Melton. If they could duplicate the line all the way to Ballarat, and add a few extra passing loops for Ararat services and freight trains, or even triplicate (if that is the word) the line. Then they could quadruplicate the line from Melton to Sunshine. This would create enough capacity for the line to operate with little disruptions.

The only problem is that I doubt that amount of money would be spent. This makes a good dream anyway!
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
That's not what I am saying. But I am saying that Rail Passengers should pay more through the farebox towards the Operation of the system. 15 % is far too low, remember for every $1 spent on rail 85c goes towards the day to day running and only 15c towards Capital works. $42.00 off peak return to Bendigo for example is far too cheap.

Michael
mejhammers1
This is quite correct, but in economics there is a term called "elasticity of demand", which runs as follows:

"If a small change in price is accompanied by a large change in quantity demanded, the product is said to be elastic (or responsive to price changes). Conversely, a product is inelastic if a large change in price is accompanied by a small amount of change in quantity demanded."

It's problematic how inelastic the demand for rail services is, but a large fare increase could put some people off.  You could reach a point where a fare increase causes a drop in patronage, to the point where the fare box is no better off.  If you are going to increase fares, it's better done in small increments over time, but that doesn't help in the short term.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I personally think that the best way to achieve full cost recovery is to adjust our fare structure so that it is more in line with a variable rate (as opposed to a flat rate like it is now). The money can then be spent on the cheap upgrades that will increase patronage by making the system more useful - this is where the real cash will come from.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I've never read so much fantasy about electrification and other nonsense in this thread...perhaps Mods should move it to 'Armchair'

Mike.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I've never read so much fantasy about electrification and other nonsense in this thread...perhaps Mods should move it to 'Armchair'

Mike.
The Vinelander
What, Electrification to Melton is fantasy? Yeah anything that gets in the way of your precious Ballarat service is fantasy. Yeah Metro passengers have to endure travelling in crap rolling stock and Interurban V/Line passengers get to travel in over specced over priced Velos. Yeah Great

Michael
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
I've never read so much fantasy about electrification and other nonsense in this thread...perhaps Mods should move it to 'Armchair'
"The Vinelander"

That's pretty rich coming from you, Mike.

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