Like 350 lashes for an elderly foreigner who made the mistake of brewing his own beer.

That was in Saudi Arabia which is ruled by a government with a wahibist / salifist approach to Islam.

The Sunni denominations widely practiced in the UAE are much more moderate.

Saying they are both Sunni is like saying that the Westbrough Baptist Church and the Australian Uniting church are both Protestant. Technically that's true, but their approaches to life and faith are vastly different.

All that may be true, however I view any government that proposes to administer 350 lashes to a 60 something person as barbaric.

1. EVERY expat who goes to KSA knows the rules. Its not your rules, its their rules. It wasn't a mistake, it was deliberate. Why are is he in KSA? 90% is for money with remainder a career boost. Yes I would go, a friend of mine has gone and done very well on both counts above. You brew your own beer, wine or spirits which is extremely common, you take a risk. I doubt I'd be that desperate to make my own. Some of the KSA courts love giving extra harsh punishments to westerners because they are supposed know better and they take the crime as more of a personal insult and to get media attention as a warning to others.

FYI, he will get 40 at a time using something like a black plastic hose while the guy is held down on a bench, spaced 2 weeks apart and then only repeat if the first batch has completely healed. In these cases with western foreigners often there are no follow-up batches as 40 satisfies the courts and hard liners and then the govt quietly steps in on the and the rest just never happens.

While I don't support it this form of punishment at all, it is actually done under far more humane conditions than the old British cat-of-nine tails punishments approach. If the skin is broken, they will stop immediately as that is against the rules which indicate no loss of blood or permanent disfiguring. Killing someone via flogging is not considered good practice by these guys and if they follow the Quran to the letter, the flogger is supposed to hold the Quran under his upper arm against his body to limit the force and the swing length to use of the forearm only and if he was to drop the Quran to the ground, god help him as the others around will quickly swap out the other guy and give him alot more.

I'm not trying to hide the fact this will hurt like hell, but he is not the first and if it does happen he will get through it.

2. AGAIN, I said UAE/Dubai with Oz, not KSA! I didn't compare with NZ or other, why are you comparing my comment with KSA? The two countries, UAE and KSA are more culturally different than Oz and USA. We were talking about govt structure.

3. Every country has their own ways of doing things and when ever you leave your home border you as a guest need to respect the culture. Same applies to those going to Oz.

Middle eastern nations make their rules and beliefs well known to foreigners arriving. Just like an Aussie facing death for trafficking class A narcotic out of south east Asia, I have no problem with foreign nations carrying out any sentence they have in their 'statuates'.

Brewing beer isn't quite like having a mouldy orange in the fruit bowl, it takes quite some intent and frankly, he's a fool. He is either not smart enough to know or understand the rules, or dumb enough to try his luck in spite of them, if a flogging teaches him something then maybe that's not a bad thing.

2. AGAIN, I said UAE/Dubai with Oz, not KSA! I didn't compare with NZ or other, why are you comparing my comment with KSA? The two countries, UAE and KSA are more culturally different than Oz and USA. We were talking about govt structure.

3. Every country has their own ways of doing things and when ever you leave your home border you as a guest need to respect the culture. Same applies to those going to Oz.

I'll just take those last two points. Number 2, what are you on about? I commented about a place that hands out lashes as punishment, and UAE/Dubai is also known throughout the world for crap justice. There have been hundreds of Britons fleeced by promises of retirement only to find thewy are lumbered with the cost of the housing scams and then prevented from leaving the country. I did not compare any country with any other, are you sure you are reading the same forum?



You might just step back a little and read your comments, how on earth can any educated or compassionate person justify the delivery of 350 lashes as a punishment for a minor crime. I don't care what their culture is, brewing beer aint that big a deal. More humane than the cat on 9 tails? WTF, it has not been used for a hundred or more years, why do you even mention it?


Point number 2, the difference is if someone shows no respect for our culture, we start a program on SBS to cater for their culture, hand out welfare to them and pass laws making it a crime to speak out about their culture. We do not on the other hand, belt them with a lash 350 times.



We are all aware you work there, you have made the point many times, good for you. But as far as I am concerned, you can take the lot of those middle east sh*tholes and shove them where the sun don't shine, I would never go there for any reason.



And BTW, I travelled to many parts of the world when I was working, very likely more than you have, so I am not ignorant of the customs of other countries, it does not mean I agree with them though.



And another thing, this bloody text editor is the pits.

2. AGAIN, I said UAE/Dubai with Oz, not KSA! I didn't compare with NZ or other, why are you comparing my comment with KSA? The two countries, UAE and KSA are more culturally different than Oz and USA. We were talking about govt structure.

3. Every country has their own ways of doing things and when ever you leave your home border you as a guest need to respect the culture. Same applies to those going to Oz.

I'll just take those last two points. Number 2, what are you on about? I commented about a place that hands out lashes as punishment, and UAE/Dubai is also known throughout the world for crap justice. There have been hundreds of Britons fleeced by promises of retirement only to find thewy are lumbered with the cost of the housing scams and then prevented from leaving the country. I did not compare any country with any other, are you sure you are reading the same forum?



You might just step back a little and read your comments, how on earth can any educated or compassionate person justify the delivery of 350 lashes as a punishment for a minor crime. I don't care what their culture is, brewing beer aint that big a deal. More humane than the cat on 9 tails? WTF, it has not been used for a hundred or more years, why do you even mention it?


Point number 2, the difference is if someone shows no respect for our culture, we start a program on SBS to cater for their culture, hand out welfare to them and pass laws making it a crime to speak out about their culture. We do not on the other hand, belt them with a lash 350 times.



We are all aware you work there, you have made the point many times, good for you. But as far as I am concerned, you can take the lot of those middle east sh*tholes and shove them where the sun don't shine, I would never go there for any reason.



And BTW, I travelled to many parts of the world when I was working, very likely more than you have, so I am not ignorant of the customs of other countries, it does not mean I agree with them though.



And another thing, this bloody text editor is the pits.

UAE justice is at times questionable just as Australia's justice is at time questionable especially having . Is Australia's more transparent, yes, its a developed country, hence its systems are more developed.

UAE has executed all terrorists caught as they believe these people insult their country and the govt and having them in jail only allowed them to teaches their beliefs to others. UAE also punishes its citizens who commit crimes OS including burn outs in London. Some would say this is more advanced than our "soft" approach.

The UAE or Dubai govts have never promised or allowed people to retire to UAE in return for buying property. Those who were fleeced during the GFC were mostly from Nth Emirate of Ajmin and mostly Paki's and Indian's. There was some issues with developers in Dubai, all the Dubai based developers refunded the money, a few didn't. The estate I live in when the devloper opened up a previously cancelled project, they allowed all the existing residents to invest at 2006 prices in 2013 (much higher) as a sign of good faith for cancelling and refunding the project previously.

The rules have now been changed to limit investor exposure and from what I understand is tougher than Australia as is rental property laws. For example rent increases are controlled. Again, the UAe is classified as an "emerging economy" which means its systems are not entrenched or established in some cases. Investors always know to check the detail, if not??? We also wont' mention the millions of expats who have literally made millions out of the UAE property market. For winners there must be loosers.

The rules in the UAE and GCC are quite clear, you must clear your debts, speeding fines, phone bills etc before leaving the country permanently. Maybe if Australia had this less people would loose money there.

You might just step back a little and read your comments, how on earth can any educated or compassionate person justify the delivery of 350 lashes as a punishment for a minor crime. I don't care what their culture is, brewing beer aint that big a deal. More humane than the cat on 9 tails? WTF, it has not been used for a hundred or more years, why do you even mention it?

Clearly you judge others based on you being the center of the universe. I strongly recommend you never get on a plane as you don't give a crap about others way of life and the differences.

There is no compassion in justice for the guilty, only the law. This was not a crime to help a sick mother or whatever, it was brewing beer which in KSA is an extremely serious offence.

Cat was last used in Australian in 1958, hardly 100 years ago.

Australia has its way of dealing with different cultures, KSA has its own. If you don't like, don't go there and if you do, thats how they roll. My personal opinion of their rules is irrelevant, but respect of their or any countries rules is.

I never said KSA wasn't a $hithole as many other ME countries also are. Your comment wasn't about my opinion of these places it was about others respect towards a culture that they have gone to work in.  

In all your travels, I can only assume to mostly christian based societies or tolerant others. I assume you never went out of your way to insult the locals or commit anti-social crimes in places like Singapore where your smeg will be cut up with the ratan for doing so.

You have no idea how many countries I've been to, so why do you even bother to suggest you have been to more or make a point of it?

Like 350 lashes for an elderly foreigner who made the mistake of brewing his own beer.

That was in Saudi Arabia which is ruled by a government with a wahibist / salifist approach to Islam.

The Sunni denominations widely practiced in the UAE are much more moderate.

Saying they are both Sunni is like saying that the Westbrough Baptist Church and the Australian Uniting church are both Protestant. Technically that's true, but their approaches to life and faith are vastly different.

All that may be true, however I view any government that proposes to administer 350 lashes to a 60 something person as barbaric.

1. EVERY expat who goes to KSA knows the rules. Its not your rules, its their rules. It wasn't a mistake, it was deliberate. Why are is he in KSA? 90% is for money with remainder a career boost. Yes I would go, a friend of mine has gone and done very well on both counts above. You brew your own beer, wine or spirits which is extremely common, you take a risk. I doubt I'd be that desperate to make my own. Some of the KSA courts love giving extra harsh punishments to westerners because they are supposed know better and they take the crime as more of a personal insult and to get media attention as a warning to others.

FYI, he will get 40 at a time using something like a black plastic hose while the guy is held down on a bench, spaced 2 weeks apart and then only repeat if the first batch has completely healed. In these cases with western foreigners often there are no follow-up batches as 40 satisfies the courts and hard liners and then the govt quietly steps in on the and the rest just never happens.

While I don't support it this form of punishment at all, it is actually done under far more humane conditions than the old British cat-of-nine tails punishments approach. If the skin is broken, they will stop immediately as that is against the rules which indicate no loss of blood or permanent disfiguring. Killing someone via flogging is not considered good practice by these guys and if they follow the Quran to the letter, the flogger is supposed to hold the Quran under his upper arm against his body to limit the force and the swing length to use of the forearm only and if he was to drop the Quran to the ground, god help him as the others around will quickly swap out the other guy and give him alot more.

I'm not trying to hide the fact this will hurt like hell, but he is not the first and if it does happen he will get through it.

2. AGAIN, I said UAE/Dubai with Oz, not KSA! I didn't compare with NZ or other, why are you comparing my comment with KSA? The two countries, UAE and KSA are more culturally different than Oz and USA. We were talking about govt structure.

3. Every country has their own ways of doing things and when ever you leave your home border you as a guest need to respect the culture. Same applies to those going to Oz.

Wonder how this sentence would be delivered by the ISIS animals...........

2. AGAIN, I said UAE/Dubai with Oz, not KSA! I didn't compare with NZ or other, why are you comparing my comment with KSA? The two countries, UAE and KSA are more culturally different than Oz and USA. We were talking about govt structure.

3. Every country has their own ways of doing things and when ever you leave your home border you as a guest need to respect the culture. Same applies to those going to Oz.

I'll just take those last two points. Number 2, what are you on about? I commented about a place that hands out lashes as punishment, and UAE/Dubai is also known throughout the world for crap justice. There have been hundreds of Britons fleeced by promises of retirement only to find thewy are lumbered with the cost of the housing scams and then prevented from leaving the country. I did not compare any country with any other, are you sure you are reading the same forum?



You might just step back a little and read your comments, how on earth can any educated or compassionate person justify the delivery of 350 lashes as a punishment for a minor crime. I don't care what their culture is, brewing beer aint that big a deal. More humane than the cat on 9 tails? WTF, it has not been used for a hundred or more years, why do you even mention it?


Point number 2, the difference is if someone shows no respect for our culture, we start a program on SBS to cater for their culture, hand out welfare to them and pass laws making it a crime to speak out about their culture. We do not on the other hand, belt them with a lash 350 times.



We are all aware you work there, you have made the point many times, good for you. But as far as I am concerned, you can take the lot of those middle east sh*tholes and shove them where the sun don't shine, I would never go there for any reason.



And BTW, I travelled to many parts of the world when I was working, very likely more than you have, so I am not ignorant of the customs of other countries, it does not mean I agree with them though.



And another thing, this bloody text editor is the pits.

Point number 2, the difference is if someone shows no respect for our culture, we start a program on SBS to cater for their culture, hand out welfare to them and pass laws making it a crime to speak out about their culture. We do not on the other hand, belt them with a lash 350 times.

I thought you was going to argue intelligently about the Barbaric nature of the punishment not spout some right wing crap about minorities and them getting preferential treatment. Absolute BS Blacksmith.

But as far as I am concerned, you can take the lot of those middle east sh*tholes and shove them where the sun don't shine, I would never go there for any reason.

But a lot of people do, like nurses for instance, because they are paid a lot of money in the Middle East and not taken for granted by the general public or used as a political football by governments like they are here and the UK.

You might just step back a little and read your comments, how on earth can any educated or compassionate person justify the delivery of 350 lashes as a punishment for a minor crime. I don't care what their culture is, brewing beer aint that big a deal.

No its not and I agree, the point is though that unless he was living under a rock, he knows that Saudi Arabia, being a very strict Muslim country does not tolerate alcohol in their country. Best not to brew the thing in the bloody first place!!!

Michael

To be a real "Popularist", I think you have to be fairly sophisticated and form your views based on keeping a close ear on what people who live in the country and less trendy areas of the cities are thinking. I'd describe someone like Nigel Farage of UKIP as a Popularist.

Jackie Lambie is not that sophisticated, nor is she that calculating. But she is a typical representative of the battlers, the less wealthy, less educated, less sophisticated people who make up the majority of the population. People of her ilk don't necessarily understand the need to tackle the "big issues" like tax reform, free trade agreements, labour market reform, etc. By contrast, both the ALP and the Libs do understand that issues like those may not be popular with the masses in the short term, but they will be of great benefit to Australia in the medium and long term. To their credit, both the big parties bite the bullet and get on with things like that.

But the mere presence of people like Lambie in the Senate is a good reminder to the big parties, both dominated by trendy sophisticates and both influenced by intellectuals and think tanks, that they can't get overly detached from ordinary people, the battlers. So while her thoughts and policies may not be overly developed or run through think tanks and opinion pollsters, what she says is vastly closer to being the authentic "voice of the people" than the thoughts of anyone who has got through the preselection processes of the Labour or Liberal parties and been elected to parliament under their franchises.

Jackie Lambie is not that sophisticated, nor is she that calculating. But she is a typical representative of the battlers, the less wealthy, less educated, less sophisticated people who make up the majority of the population. People of her ilk don't necessarily understand the need to tackle the "big issues" like tax reform, free trade agreements, labour market reform, etc.

Jackie Lambie is a senator and doing mostly what she is supposed to do and that is to Champion her state. By crikey she is proud of Tasmania and will go to war for it. She has also helped defeat some pretty crappy policies like allowing Unis to charge whatever fees they like and that crap Parental leave for "Women of Calibre" yeah like only women who can earn above $120,000 are of calibre!!

So there is a thread about Jacqui Lambie who does what all senators should do and that is to promote her state first and formost and yet people let go scot free a reprehensible man in the Liberal party by the name of Cory Bernardi. A man who is a senator for South Australia, pretty much a basket case financially. SA's young cannot leave the state fast enough for NSW, VIC,WA and Qld and yet all he does his stick the boot in to refugees, gays and lesbians and any other minority he despises. I wonder if some of these posters are sexist buffoons, Jacqui Lambie gets crap for not being sophisticated enough and Cory Bernardi can say what the hell he likes. Bernardi is a completed dead-headed moron.

Michael

In all your travels, I can only assume to mostly christian based societies or tolerant others. I assume you never went out of your way to insult the locals or commit anti-social crimes in places like Singapore where your smeg will be cut up with the ratan for doing so.

You have no idea how many countries I've been to, so why do you even bother to suggest you have been to more or make a point of it?

No, I have had to travel to many places that were not Christian as you put it, and a lot of them were completely intolerant of other societies and cultures. I was robbed at gunpoint in South Africa and I have witnessed a number of brutalities and examples of poor justice, however this is not the place to go into it, nor is there enough space to do it.


My point about having been to many parts of the world, and the reason for mentioning it was to establish that I am not a stay-at-home critic, I have been in some of the worst places in the world and have a fair basis for comparison. I agree I could have phrased it better.

No, I have had to travel to many places that were not Christian as you put it, and a lot of them were completely intolerant of other societies and cultures. I was robbed at gunpoint in South Africa and I have witnessed a number of brutalities and examples of poor justice, however this is not the place to go into it, nor is there enough space to do it.


My point about having been to many parts of the world, and the reason for mentioning it was to establish that I am not a stay-at-home critic, I have been in some of the worst places in the world and have a fair basis for comparison. I agree I could have phrased it better.

Ok no problem.

stepping back a few steps

- I have now lived in 3 countries, in comparison between the UAE and AUS, I see strength in both political and yes justice systems, I also see weaknesses. Which do I personally prefer? AUS! Which country is the safest place to raise a family, UAE hands down. However, I think it provides an unrealistic environment for the kids to grow up in especially if they will unlikely live here themselves as adults.

- Do I agree with the brutal punishment of KSA or other like nations, No! No I have sympathy for those who fall foul doing something incredibly stupid and insulting to the local culture, No! You just don't go to KSA for a week's booze and sex like its Bali where the locals tolerate perceived western immorals in return for few $. KSA is where this guy lived, its a well know $hithole culturally stuck in the middle ages with its strict and very conservative form of Islam. You cannot get past the airport arrivals hall without seeing this. For his sake I hope they pull back from the 350 strokes and I expect they will, I know he won't die from it as they are not that F'ed up (my reference to the days of British style corporal punishment where they often literally whipped you to death or you died from the punishment in the following days or weeks from infection/blood loss or for most you were left severely scared/disfigured for life and recovery was counted in months).

When it comes to ignorance and intolerance who gets to lecture who.

Pick a time in recent history and see just how unenlightened 'we' were. No that long ago an advanced European civilisation practised barbarity on an industrial scale.

People have been and always will be obsessed with keeping their world homogenised and pasteurised. The modus operandi is the same. Drape themselves in some absolute - religion, nationalism, patriotism, racial purity. Having assumed righteousness, denounce anyone they don’t care for e.g. heretic, infidel untermenschen,... ‘un-Australian’.

By the way, Australia has never had one culture. Aussie culture wasn't instigated on 26th January 1788 nor frozen in time.

Now should I have moussaka, a kebab or pie for lunch

When it comes to ignorance and intolerance who gets to lecture who.

Pick a time in recent history and see just how unenlightened 'we' were. No that long ago an advanced European civilisation practised barbarity on an industrial scale.

People have been and always will be obsessed with keeping their world homogenised and pasteurised. The modus operandi is the same. Drape themselves in some absolute - religion, nationalism, patriotism, racial purity. Having assumed righteousness, denounce anyone they don’t care for e.g. heretic, infidel untermenschen,... ‘un-Australian’.

By the way, Australia has never had one culture. Aussie culture wasn't instigated on 26th January 1788 nor frozen in time.

Now should I have moussaka, a kebab or pie for lunch

While we have religion and different languages, the world will never be at peace.

Totally agree with your statement culture is not frozen in time, for anywhere. Some parts of the ME somehow want to freeze their language and culture, regardless of the fact it was never frozen in the past. Many parts of the world are rebelling in various ways to "westernisation", although I have this argument locals and sub-conts and say what is "westernisation". Do you fear people wearing jeans? Ironically go into any large western city and look at the restaurants, what do you see. Mostly non-"western" based menus. Japan is a modern country, is it considered "westernised"?

Yes we are all moving more and more in the one direction, but each retains their own flavor and cultural by force is not a culture, its repression and people eventually revolt against repression and all that it represents. People who embrace their culture will voluntary express it, even if its not in day to day life.

Women if anything are more open to change (probably most to gain) and around the world they are rejecting their cultural repression and the men have no body but them selves to blame. Fun Fact, Emiratie women instigate the extremely high divorce rate in the UAE. Russian (Slavic) women are kicking out their lazy, drunken husbands in their droves, Japanese women are avoiding marriage as they consider a married woman is repressed. Indian women are choosing their own husbands with conditions that preserve her career options and she is not a slave to the husbands family.

By the way, Australia has never had one culture. Aussie culture wasn't instigated on 26th January 1788 nor frozen in time.

Care to nominate a country that has?

By the way, Australia has never had one culture. Aussie culture wasn't instigated on 26th January 1788 nor frozen in time.

Care to nominate a country that has?

In truth, no country could honestly claim that - but a great many seem to.......

My point precisely.

This is pretty much QED to my thoughts on Tassie's current nut case in parliament.

http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/article/2015/10/27/lambie-claims-who-report-bacon-first-step-towards-sharia-law

Guess that she got that one wrong! The rest of us already know that the conspiracy is really Jewish...


Though it really is a bit dangerous to get your news from a comedian.

Comedians reporting on comedians, what better source? It takes one to know one.

I still find it hard to tell the difference between Lambi and Hanson. Both open their mouths to say stupid things on a regular basis.

By the way, Australia has never had one culture. Aussie culture wasn't instigated on 26th January 1788 nor frozen in time.

Care to nominate a country that has?

In truth, no country could honestly claim that - but a great many seem to.......

In many countries they call themselves nationalists. They're easily lead into believing they represent some superior monoculture. Not much changes in 80 years

It takes one to know one.

I've always been fascinated by the complete lack of logic in this old chestnut. I don't have to be a champion sprinter to know that Usain Bolt is.  I couldn't play the trumpet, but I knew that Louis Armstrong was top class. The list could go on for ever.

By the way, Australia has never had one culture. Aussie culture wasn't instigated on 26th January 1788 nor frozen in time.

Care to nominate a country that has?

In truth, no country could honestly claim that - but a great many seem to.......

In many countries they call themselves nationalists. They're easily lead into believing they represent some superior monoculture. Not much changes in 80 years

So, from that I wonder if you support the idea of multi-culturism?

This is pretty much QED to my thoughts on Tassie's current nut case in parliament.

http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/article/2015/10/27/lambie-claims-who-report-bacon-first-step-towards-sharia-law

I would so like, to like JL, but she makes it so very difficult

By the way, Australia has never had one culture. Aussie culture wasn't instigated on 26th January 1788 nor frozen in time.

Care to nominate a country that has?

In truth, no country could honestly claim that - but a great many seem to.......

In many countries they call themselves nationalists. They're easily lead into believing they represent some superior monoculture. Not much changes in 80 years

So, from that I wonder if you support the idea of multi-culturism?

We have always been a multicultural nation - fact. I mean how can these fwits reclaim something they never owned
What language you speak, what you eat or who you pray to is your business (within reason).
Just live and let live!